Guardian/Juggernaut PvP Review/Evaluation (Spoilers.. kind of)

[MonkeyGenius]

Introduction:

Greetings,

I am Monkeygenius, also known as Nyan of the guild Shards of Alderaan. Our beta guild was Republic Justice, and we also played Empire for the last build under the name Kind of Terrible.

I have played both Guardian and Juggernaut extensively during the beta period. I have been to 50 multiple times and have played a countless amount of Warzones as well as the various other end-game content that was available to testers. Aside from testing, my primary focus was group-oriented PvP.

Ever since the NDA was lifted, I started to stream gameplay from my perspective as a level 50 Juggernaut. The link to my stream can be found here, and various VODs can be found here. I also run a blog dedicated to Guardians/Juggernauts called Guard This: A Jedi Guardian's Blog. That can be found here.

Throughout my time as a tester, I have tried out a multitude of different skill/talent builds, and have played Guardian/Juggernaut as a tank, DPS, and hybrid.

In this review of the class, I will express my personal opinions and evaluations of every single ability and provide overviews on all three skill/talent trees. Keep in mind that this is from the perspective of a primarily group-oriented player, and all information provided will be based off of level 50 gameplay, with a primary focus on PvP. Story, companions, and various other aspects of the class will be left out as the focus is on PvP and combat mechanics.

All information, opinions, and evaluations are based off of the last build of beta.

Summary:

In my opinion, the Guardian/Juggernaut advanced class is in a very good place. It’s not going to be the best burst damage class in the game, but it can certainly pack a punch if you so choose to play that way. It’s a fantastic class for group support and tanking in PvP. Our resource mechanic, Focus/Rage, really shines when you have group support if you run Soresu/Shien or Shii-Cho with the Visionary/Endless Rage skill/talent because you generate a lot of Focus/Rage by taking a lot of hits and getting healed.

With that said, the class is not perfect. It can use some work, but in my experience it is hardly a class that is not viable in PvP.

Abilities:
(Including abilities from skills/talents, PvE only abilities will be skipped.)

Forms:

Shien Form (talented) – Quite impressive for DPS. However, Soresu is still the best choice to use in most situations in PvP, so using a valuable skill/talent point for this form is not very advised.

Shii-Cho Form – This form is the basic form that you start with. It is easily outclassed by either Soresu or Shien once you get them; however it can be talented via the Focus/Rage tree to be a viable form. However, the Soresu/Guard dilemma as mentioned earlier makes this a tough choice for group oriented PvP.

Soresu Form –This form should be your primary form and used nearly 100% of the time as the other forms just aren’t really worth the trade-off, since Soresu form enables guard and also gives very respectable defense/damage reduction/shield chance. As a melee class, you will take hits and lots of them. Defense is never a bad thing even if you primarily want to do damage.

Group Buffs:

Force Might/Unnatural Might – a 5% damage/healing buff for yourself and your group is very respectable.

Self-Buffs:

Combat Focus/Enrage – Immediately generating 6 Focus/Rage is amazing. This ability is very useful and knowing when to use it is incredibly important.

Enure/Endure Pain – A fantastic defensive cool down for clutch moments. The health gained is quite large and scales well with end-game gear.

Saber Ward – Easily one of the best defensive cool downs in the game combined especially with Blade Turning.

Warding Call/Invincible (talented) – Not a bad defensive cool down but since it was lowered in the tree it is cheap and worth picking up usually. It’s very helpful to aid in holding off/tanking enemies as well as helping out your healers so that they don’t have to heal you as much.

Melee Damage Attacks (4m):

Guardian Slash/Crushing Blow (talented) – Quite impressive damage for a tank talent. Applying 3 sunders is no joke, and its damage goes up even further if you have your target fully sundered. Not bad at all. This is definitely a must get if you plan to go high up in the Defense/Immortal tree.

Master Strike/Ravage – Personally, I am not a big fan of this ability in PvP. It being channeled makes it very difficult to pull off. It is not bad if used after a stun such as Hilt Strike/Backhand or a non-channeled Stasis/Choke; other than that I do not use it very often.

Overhead Slash/Impale (talented)– Its damage is respectable and it synergizes well with the Vigilance/ Vengeance tree for the most part. Primarily used to dump Focus/Rage and proc a critical strike for Blade Storm/Force Scream if you have the Force Rush/Savagery skill/talent from Vigilance/Vengeance.

Plasma Brand/Shatter (talented) – This talented ability isn’t terrible but it’s not really ideal for PvP. It doesn’t provide much burst damage which is usually the most important form of damage for PvP in this game.

Riposte/Retaliation – Easily one of the best Melee Attacks we have. It’s off the GCD and does respectable damage. This should be used every chance you get, but I wouldn’t pool Rage/Focus just for it.

Slash/Vicious Slash – A decent Focus/Rage dump. Usually only used if all other options have been exhausted.

Strike/Assault – The basic Focus/Rage builder. It does its job well but I wouldn’t mind if the base damage was increased a little bit.

Sundering Strike/Sundering Assault – A great ability for building Focus/Rage and should be prioritized before Strike/Assault. Base damage is respectable and the debuff is very good.


AoE Damage Attacks:

Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash (4m, frontal cone) – It is quite underwhelming but not terrible. I primarily use it to keep multiple people from capping turrets/doors in ACW/Voidstar; other than that I don’t see much use for it due to its low base damage but I don’t see them increasing its base damage as it is used as an AoE alternative of Slash/Vicious Slash.

Force Sweep/Smash (5m radius) – Does a ton of damage, has a lot of supporting skills/talents that work very well. Very useful and should not be neglected.

Ranged Damage Attacks:

Blade Storm/Force Scream (10m) – Since the 3 point skill/talent change in the Defense/Immortal tree, this ability could use a minor increase in damage. However, it is a very good ability and there are many talents which help it out.

Dispatch/Vicious Throw (10m)– A very good ability, especially in conjunction with the Vigilance/Vengeance skill/talent Force Rush/Savagery. Does very high damage and is very useful; I think adjusting the max health that the target needs to be at a little bit would be a reasonable change; perhaps to 25 or even 30%.

Force Exhaustion/Force Crush (talented & 10m) – A little underwhelming for a 31pt talent, not something I would personally want to pick up. The damage isn’t terrible but it is over time and delayed – both of these are forms of damage that aren’t really that effective in PvP in most cases. The slow is pretty much made redundant by Freezing Force/Chilling Scream.

Saber Throw (10m-30m) – A really good ability, generates Focus/Rage and does moderate damage. A little damage increase wouldn’t hurt, but overall the ability works well. Primarily used to generate Focus/Rage and some poke damage from a distance.


Leaps:

Force Leap/Force Charge – The basic charge to an enemy. Works really well, has a lot of good skills/talents that make it even better such as a 2 second stun or increased root duration and is one of our most important abilities. Proper timing on this ability is very important.

Guardian Leap/Intercede – One of the best abilities that we bring to the table that no one else can. It’s absolutely amazing. On top of leaping to an ally, it also provides a 20% damage reduction buff to your ally (and potentially yourself if talented) for four seconds. This makes us one of the best choices when supporting group members because we can easily get to them to be in guard range and the damage reduction buff helps out a lot as well. On top of this; you can currently use this ability on stealth allies without breaking their stealth. The possibilities are endless.

Zealous Leap/Obiliterate (talented) - Good damage, it never hurts to have another leap because they are game changers. Can only leap to an enemy and it’s 10m – also costs 3 Focus/Rage.

CC:

Awe/Intimidating Roar – AoE Mez for 6 seconds, breaks on damage. Extremely useful but should be used carefully.

Force Kick/Disruption (5m) – Your basic interrupt. Obviously extremely useful. Costs 1 Focus/Rage, 8 second cool down.

Force Push (10m) – A great tool. It’s not incredibly reliable, however. It is still very useful and the additional knock down after the knock back definitely helps.

Force Stasis/Force Choke (10m) – A channeled stun/DoT ; can be talented via Stasis Mastery/Force Grip in the Defense/Immortal tree to have no channel. Excellent ability if talented to have no channel; mediocre but useful if not.

Freezing Force/Chilling Scream – Easily one of our best abilities. An AoE slow for 50% that lasts for 9 seconds that has no cooldown, and when talented with Solidified Force/Intimidation it costs no Focus/Rage can be spammed.

Hilt Strike/Backhand (talented & 4m) – Good damage that can be talented to do even more damage, 4 second stun. It would be nice if this was baseline and replaced with something else in the Defense/Immortal tree, but that’s about my only qualm with this ability as it is quite good.

Tank Abilities:

Challenging Call/Threatening Scream – AoE taunt, reduces all targets in a 15m radius’ damage by 30%. Extremely useful and should be used regardless of build/role.

Guard – This ability is no joke. It is extremely crucial for group play (i.e; premades) and is one of the best abilities available to tanks. This should almost always be used, but wisely.

Taunt (30m) – Basic single target taunt. Should always be used to help reduce damage done to team mates by reducing your targets damage to everyone but you by 30%. Extremely useful and should be used regardless of build/role.

Skill/Talent Trees:

Vigilance/Vengeance:
The Vigilance/Vengeance skill tree is lacking a little bit of oomph for it to be worth focusing completely on the play style of the pure DPS role in a PvP setting. It is hard to ignore the fact that we can guard, and since we need to be in Soresu to guard, it is not really beneficial to the group if you do not run Soresu most of the time as any spec/role as a Guardian/Juggernaut. With that said it is completely viable to DPS while in Soresu and guarding team mates in a group setting. The Vigilance/Vengeance tree has very impressive skills/talents that are fantastic for PvP such as Unremitting/Unstoppable, Protector/Huddle, and Commanding Awe/Deafening Defense. Force Rush/Savagery provides excellent burst potential with the Overhead Slash/Impale & Blade Storm/Force Scream or Dispatch/Vicious Throw combo.

Focus/Rage:
The Focus/Rage tree has extreme potential to have high burst by stacking +DMG to Force Sweep/Smash via Singularity/Shockwave as well as the ability to pick up Swelling Winds/Decimate from Vigilance/Vengeance Tier 1 to increase the damage of Force Sweep/Smash even more. (There’s also Pacification/Heavy Handed from Defense/Immortal Tier 3, but that’s a bit too high up.) The Focus/Rage tree also provides a skill/talent to make Force Sweep/Smash an automatic critical hit after using Force Leap/Force Charge, or Zealous Leap/Obliterate and also a skill/talent which adds +30% critical damage to all Force attacks, which includes Force Sweep/Smash. While this all looks very good on paper, it makes the play-style of the class somewhat of a one-trick pony, and just like Vigilance/Vengeance it also suffers from the Soresu/Guard dilemma.

Defense/Immortal:
The tank tree is surprisingly extremely good for PvP. With skills/talents such as Hilt Strike/Back Hand, Stasis Mastery/Force Grip and Force Clap/Crash your arsenal of CC becomes quite large. Two points in Solidified Force/Intimidation make our AoE snare (which has no cool down) completely free. On top of this, you become a sunder machine by being able to potentially put out a full stack of 5 sunder debuffs on a target in two attacks with the aid of Improved Sundering Strike/Improved Sundering Assault from the Vigilance/Vengeance tree and the top tier talent from Immortal; Guardian Slash/Crushing Blow. This 20% armor debuff is very effective and helps your team’s DPS quite a bit.

My Builds:
With all that said; my favorite builds for group-oriented PvP out of every skill/talent build I’ve tried has been either:

Tank/CC focused: Guardian / Juggernaut

Tank/DPS hybrid focused: Guardian / Juggernaut

Conclusion:
Contrary to popular belief; Guardians/Juggernauts are very viable in PvP. While they do not really bloom until late levels/end-game, and do best when in a group setting – they are a very durable, versatile class that can do viable damage and protect their team. In some cases they can even feel a little over-tuned and unbalanced. I quite enjoyed all of the time I've spent testing this AC, and I am very happy with how it turned out. While I would not be opposed to minor tweaks, the class itself is very well done.

If you have any questions, suggestions or feedback please feel free to reply here or send me a PM directly.

Regards,

Nyan

[dendaros]

wall of text just crited for 200k dmg lol long post but very informative thx for the info and the time you have put into this

[iceberg265]

As someone who is making a JK Guardian main, thanks for the info! I intend to go Defense for PvE tanking, but I do enjoy PvP as well, so it is good to get some confirmation on what I have heard that Guardians are in a decent place for it.

[ssambakd]

Thank for the write-up. How would you compare between PvP tanks? Do other tanks have something that Guardian/Juggernauts don't have, which is vital to group pvp play? Juggernaut's Intercede sure seems like a standout ability, but perhaps other tanks have something unique for their own.

[Razeo]

Putting this in my favorites, as someone who's starting a DPS Jugg as my main I really appreciate all the info! Thanks a bunch!

[Roxinius]

very nice write up but i feel my eyes starting to bleed lol

[Loaf Lord]

Question... is force push for all guardians/juggs?

[MonkeyGenius]

Thank for the write-up. How would you compare between PvP tanks? Do other tanks have something that Guardian/Juggernauts don't have, which is vital to group pvp play? Juggernaut's Intercede sure seems like a standout ability, but perhaps other tanks have something unique for their own.

All three tank classes have their own little niche. VG/PTs have ranged attacks and various other good abilities, Shadows/Sins have high damage output as well as stealth among other things, etc. I plan on writing a more detailed post about the three different classes on my blog this weekend before the early access. Be sure to check it out if you are interested.

Question... is force push for all guardians/juggs?

Yes.