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  • Sargeras

    364 58.80%
  • Old God forces

    255 41.20%
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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Just take a look at the lore sources - sargeras got wounded by a time traveling orc wielding a wooden axe, and he also got easily corrupted by the nathrezim.
    they didnt literally corrupt him, he saw how evil they were (originally the eredar before the draenei retcon) and said "well shit, if the universe can make something this evil then why are we trying to contain it, lets just blow the whole thing up and start over"

    a depressed person isnt corrupted by their dead family member. they are corrupted by sadness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Deathwing wouldn't even touch Kil'Jaeden.

    There's a reason why he is known as the Deceiver.
    Plus, when we fought him, we didn't really ''fight him'', we fought his Avatar, which was STILL BEING SUMMONED, it wasn't even fully present in our planet.
    that wasnt his avatar, it was him. if he was just coming as an avatar he wouldnt need to use the sunwell
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Deathwing wouldn't even touch Kil'Jaeden.
    There's a reason why Deathwing is known as the Destroyer.

    But to explain my logic, not saying it has to be the right one or same as your logic, just how i see it.

    KJ is a general of Sargeras who is ex titan.
    Deathwing was empowered by titans.

    So something empowered by titans > ex titan general

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    There's a reason why Deathwing is known as the Destroyer.

    But to explain my logic, not saying it has to be the right one or same as your logic, just how i see it.

    KJ is a general of Sargeras who is ex titan.
    Deathwing was empowered by titans.

    So something empowered by titans > ex titan general
    sargeras was the most powerful titan, kil'jaedan was empowered by sargeras AND has been empowered by any and all kinds of things throughout the universe while deathwing was stuck doing nothing to get stronger the majority of his life

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    not to mention, deathwing was only empowered with the amount of power the titans thought neccesary to watch over a bunch of rocks.

    kj was empowered to help destroy the universe.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  4. #124
    The answer is never explicitly stated. Krasus thinks Old Gods would beat Sargeras, the Old Gods themselves think they would beat him. But that is it, the fact they think they could beat him doesn't mean they actually would.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by OscarPP View Post
    Yes but they don't destroy planets and they where a small force I presume. There where a few mentions in Outland but nothing more. Also what happens if the burning crusade destroys a planet with an old god on it.
    Then the old gods dies (or return to its own realm)
    just because they don't destroy planets doesn't mean they can't

    have you not noticed that the OG overwhelmingly prefer to corrupt as opposed to destroy?
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Sargeras vs ONE Old God would be a fairly close match, maybe Sargeras could pull it off, but far from easy..
    Sargeras vs ALL Old Gods, Sargeras would be dead before he realisd the fight was on.
    Sargeras plus Burning Legion vs ALL Old Gods, Sargeras would win by sheer numbers..
    I agree with you for the most part.

    Although I think Sargeras would be able to take on one Old God, it wouldn't be the easiest thing, but I think he'd have the advantage.

    Also, we don't know how big the entire Old God army is, if we are to believe Harbinger Skyriss their army is as endless as the stars themselves. I know the Burning Legion has a huge army, but I think the Old Gods just might have an even bigger one.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Deathwing wouldn't even touch Kil'Jaeden.

    There's a reason why he is known as the Deceiver.
    Plus, when we fought him, we didn't really ''fight him'', we fought his Avatar, which was STILL BEING SUMMONED, it wasn't even fully present in our planet.
    It was the actual Kil'jaeden, he just did NOT have a lot going for him at that point. The entirety of the Sunwell was pushing him back, the Blue Dragonflight was also, in conjunction with Velen and the heroes of Azeroth attempting to buy time for him to weaken and be pushed back through.
    Deathknight's do it using disease, blood and the power of the unholy. Warlocks do it with dark demons by their side. Mages do it with summoned arcane powers. Druids do it using the forces of nature. Rogues do it through stealth, poison's, shadows and....from behind. Paladins do it by calling to the light for aid. Shamans do it with the help of the elements. Priests do it through the holy light.
    But warriors....
    Warriors just fucking do it.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert the fish View Post
    just because they don't destroy planets doesn't mean they can't

    have you not noticed that the OG overwhelmingly prefer to corrupt as opposed to destroy?
    The begist thing is that threre force isn't big outside the universe.
    Firstly,They where not united and doesn't care for other things.
    Second, we had to notice the old gods more but it wasn't.

    The only reason why we notice the old gods now is because the legion hasn't destroyed our world yet.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I agree with you for the most part.

    Although I think Sargeras would be able to take on one Old God, it wouldn't be the easiest thing, but I think he'd have the advantage.

    Also, we don't know how big the entire Old God army is, if we are to believe Harbinger Skyriss their army is as endless as the stars themselves. I know the Burning Legion has a huge army, but I think the Old Gods just might have an even bigger one.
    We can't really take what Harbringer Skyriss says at face value, the Legion do not seem dissuaded by the Old Gods or their minions, which would either mean that...
    A) They have never encountered the Old Gods before, meaning they are not as numerous as first thought.
    2) They have encountered the Old Gods before but have ways of dealing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    There's a reason why Deathwing is known as the Destroyer.

    But to explain my logic, not saying it has to be the right one or same as your logic, just how i see it.

    KJ is a general of Sargeras who is ex titan.
    Deathwing was empowered by titans.

    So something empowered by titans > ex titan general
    Sargeras was the most powerful Titan, Kil'jaeden was the most powerful of his race.
    Deathknight's do it using disease, blood and the power of the unholy. Warlocks do it with dark demons by their side. Mages do it with summoned arcane powers. Druids do it using the forces of nature. Rogues do it through stealth, poison's, shadows and....from behind. Paladins do it by calling to the light for aid. Shamans do it with the help of the elements. Priests do it through the holy light.
    But warriors....
    Warriors just fucking do it.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I agree with you for the most part.

    Although I think Sargeras would be able to take on one Old God, it wouldn't be the easiest thing, but I think he'd have the advantage.

    Also, we don't know how big the entire Old God army is, if we are to believe Harbinger Skyriss their army is as endless as the stars themselves. I know the Burning Legion has a huge army, but I think the Old Gods just might have an even bigger one.
    that's actually the most frightening thing about the bastards.

    think how pervasive their armies on Azeroth have become without the doing anything more than pulling a few minor strings and just sort of existing near people.

    you know when you just wake up and try to have a conversation and inevitably say something nonsensical or just trip on your own language and hard. that's the OG on Azeroth and look how dangerous they are.
    and they can't stop bickering with each other in this state.

    now imagine just one wide awake and fully thinking straight, imagine how dangerous that is. how massive the level of corruption and the size of the potential army.
    now imagine many. even if they do fight each other.

    i'm 90% sure the Old God armies would dwarf the Legion if united, and tear them apart as collateral damage if divided. that's of course presuming that the Old Gods aren't the ones that corrupted the original demon races in the first place and thus aren't slyly in the background and guiding the Legion with invisible hands. i mean we know that Sargeras was corrupted by the demons, but who's to say the demons were always evil? maybe they were normal people once. the corruption bent is exactly their style of gameplay and Sargeras doing the Old God's work without even being aware of it is EXACTLY the type of shit they do.
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    Sry to say but think Deathwing would beat KJ quite hard if they ever went into a fight.
    Dude no, Deathwing was nothing. People forget that afther the war of the ancient never was a full war agianst the legion. Mount Hyjal was mere a scratch and nothing. KJ didn't care for our world. He didn't care for the Orcs failure. He didn't care for Archimondes dead. He only begins to get sireus when the dreanei landed on Azeroth.

    DW power where as flea compare to Archimonde. We never faced KJ completely.

  12. #132
    if it's all old gods plural, vs one titan who was the pantheons champions imho I would go with the old gods, Sargeras is very very strong but in the past all of the titans together struggled against the old gods.. but this is just my opinion anything could happen

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolretadin View Post
    It was the actual Kil'jaeden, he just did NOT have a lot going for him at that point. The entirety of the Sunwell was pushing him back, the Blue Dragonflight was also, in conjunction with Velen and the heroes of Azeroth attempting to buy time for him to weaken and be pushed back through.
    Wowhead said we faced a twisted avatar of KJ.
    Wowhead is pretty canon

  14. #134
    Old Gods, long long ago their plan was:

    -Stupids mortals open a portal for the Legion.
    -Sargeras appears and break the world.
    -we are free
    -We destroy Sargeras 4 (or more Old Gods) vs 1
    -We reclaim the world again.

    The Old Gods are the masterminds in Azeroth. Sargeras is powerfull yes, but the Old Gods are more.

  15. #135
    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet in the thread but I think people are vastly overstating the power of the Titans vs the Old Gods. I remember clearly reading where the combined forces of the Titans *barely* beat the Old Gods, and that's when they were essentially fighting the Old Gods one at a time. The Titans were fighting together vs the Old Gods who were not combined as they were constantly warring with each other as well. There's just no possible way any single Titan would ever win against even a single Old God, according to what I've read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skr View Post
    First of all, that quote in your post also mentions "Krasus further thought that the Aspects were the most powerful creatures on all the mortal plane. So if anyone had a chance against the Old Gods, it was them.", which is kinda laughable presumption. How can the Aspects(which are creation of the Titans) be stronger than the Champion of the Pantheon(the high council of the already mentioned Titans) himself? Someone already mentioned that Krasus couldn't know how powerful Sargeras really is, as he have never encountered him in person(hence he is still alive to speculate).
    This is something that's irking me to no end in this thread. People keep using that quote from Krasus about the aspects being so powerful yada yada in comparing their power to Titans and Old Gods, yet COMPLETELY fail to translate the part about "on the mortal plane". Just an fyi, but Titans and Old Gods are NOT on the mortal plane. /thread

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    snip
    ''It can be noted that, at the end of the fight, Kil'jaeden does not die. Instead the magics of the Sunwell simply react against him, and he is pulled back through it and into the Twisting Nether.''

    It was him I checked it yeah.

    Still nothing to be proud of, we merely push him back, and that's with the entire power of the sunwell turning against him.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    You got it backwards..

    When the Titans killed an Old God, they gave everything they had.. It was only when the Old God died, they realised that killing the Old Gods, would destroy the planet, and thus they had to come up with new and better tactics, in order to imprison the rest.

    Lore wise, it makes no sense, the Titans succeeded in capturing any of the Old Gods, since capture is harder than killing, a we all know, they only barely succeeded in killing a single Old God..
    WTF are you talking about I got it backwards? They straight up say they can break down the entire planet, Old Gods or no. That's their failsafe for eradicating the Old God infestation if the planet is too corrupted to be saved. They imprisoned the Old Gods the first time because they thought Azeroth could still be salvaged.

    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolretadin View Post
    Sargeras was the most powerful Titan, Kil'jaeden was the most powerful of his race.
    Hmm, isnt it that Archi, Vel and KJ were all equal in power, before Sargeras, Velen even managed to escape KJ while he was humnting him, that says something for sure. Also not saying its like that, but Velen could be more powerful then KJ or Archi, since if you look at the LK vs Tirion, Lk should have been stronger, but with use of Ashbringer and holy power Tirion was stronger. So could be the same for Velen and Arch/KJ, again only a guess doesnt have to be.

  19. #139
    They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors into serving their cause.

    - The Old Gods, in The Sundering, Book 3 of War of the Ancients, talking about Sargeras attempting to enter Azeroth through the Well of Eternity.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    Hmm, isnt it that Archi, Vel and KJ were all equal in power, before Sargeras, Velen even managed to escape KJ while he was humnting him, that says something for sure. Also not saying its like that, but Velen could be more powerful then KJ or Archi, since if you look at the LK vs Tirion, Lk should have been stronger, but with use of Ashbringer and holy power Tirion was stronger. So could be the same for Velen and Arch/KJ, again only a guess doesnt have to be.
    Velen’s fellow leaders were also his friends. He was particularly close to Kil’jaeden, the most powerful and decisive of the three.
    --Rise of the Horde

    The cunning demon, Kil’jaeden, second in command of the Legion, saw that the savage warriors had vast potential for murder and bloodshed – and set out to corrupt their tranquil society from within.
    --WC3 Manual

    Velen was always able to sense when an obvious threat like the entire Burning Legion was about to descend upon a planet. That's why KJ used a more covert method on Draenor.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-11-23 at 07:29 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

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