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  1. #141
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Let's assume, because they used generic numbers also, that some of those numbers are flat rates.

    You'd have to make at least 5 bucks for you to not "owe" blizz anything.

    They don't want people profiting from micro-transactions.

    I see no problem here.


    Also the "you owe blizzard a quarter" thing made me think of Mr. Nanny I watched a couple nights ago where Hogan had to pay the taxi driver and the change was "Aw gee, a whole quarter" so the old guy comes up and takes the quarter and says "this ain't charity!".
    Last edited by ImpTaimer; 2011-12-19 at 12:27 AM.
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    I just want you to understand that this is your opinion. This is not a fact. I am fine with how blizzard runs as a company.
    I am very well aware that it is my opinion. But then again: If a company slowly tunes its attitude towards its customers so that the customers themselves allow the company to consistently charge more for less, isn't that hacking away at consumer integrity? Let me get this straight: If Valve, Ubisoft or god forbid EA did the very same thing as Blizzard is currently doing, would you be fine with it? If you answer yes at that question I will lay down my argument and simply assume that you like paying more for less and that you thus are beyond salvation.

    The only thing we customers have in order to force companies to do us right, is our money. They want our money, they crave our money, they need our money to survive and make profit. They will stop at nothing to get more money, and no I am not a socialist quite the contrary, but this is how it is and you can't ignore the fact that Blizzard has under Activision become one of the most greedy game developing companies there is.
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSilas View Post
    The designers at Blizzard are top notch. The people running it are total money grubbing idiots. Honestly I part with my money with great care and after the crap they've been pulling lately I give up. I've still got my sub up just to drop in on some mates, but if they do this I'll be loath to invest in another of their products.

    I mean make a profit but at least show some self control, if they come out and say the figures are bogus and it'll be less then fine. But Blizzard are leaving a sour taste in my mouth time and again lately.
    Oh, and this so much.
    Last edited by vanin; 2011-12-19 at 12:36 AM.

  3. #143
    I can't believe fanboys are actually defending this blatant scam.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by achaeon View Post
    Logic would say that this is not going to be how it is. If it was, no one would use it, then they'd make nothing on it.
    Logic says otherwise, this prevents you from making pure profit. Otherwise it stays in their system and you use it in their stores, essentially they don't lose anything and you only gain what they let you.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 01:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sulfuric View Post
    I can't believe fanboys are actually defending this blatant scam.
    Boys will be boys. Pointing out Blizzards huge flaws is impossible on forums because fanboys tear you apart and anti-blizzard people take what you said out of context.

    Personally I love Blizzards games, less so the cata expansion and most likely pandaville 2012. But SC/2, Diablo etc are great. But people still delude themselves into thinking Blizzard do anything unique, they do not. They do extremely safe things well.

  5. #145
    Humm... it was never intended to be a money maker for players. It's purpose is to break outsite-of-the-game gold/item selling which happens atm.

    The real point is to keep $$$ seperated from gold. If it can go in and out without fees, you're just supporting "chinese farmers". If it can go in ($$$ -> gold/items) but suffers huge costs from going out (gold/items -> $$$), it promotes the old school trading style of gold/items -> items/gold.

    The image posted is also just a satyre. I'd expect a total cut of 20-30%, which would translate into ~3$ in your pockets from a 4$ sale, and most of this cut will be in the "taking it out of the system" part. If you just plan on selling stuff for money and reinvesting that into another Blizzard game, you'll probably only lose 10-20% of the sale.
    Last edited by Butterland; 2011-12-19 at 02:10 AM.

  6. #146
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doesnotcare View Post
    i dont plan on playing d3 after all this bullshit with the rmah, its just going to be a bunch of babbys running around with their mom's credit cards stomping on people who dont have the time to bot whatever the equivalent of baal runs will be or dont have the money to get good stuff.
    Diablo is a PvP game? Wow, this is news.

    By the way, I believe cashout fee and paypal fees occur only when you actually cash out. The more sales you make, the higher your profit margin. Think about it as ATM fee - withdraw 20$, pay 1.50$ - fee is 7.5% Withdraw 100$ pay 1.5$ - fee is 1.5%

    EDIT: re-read the article - it makes it sound like cashout is necessary after each transaction, but it doesn't explain clearly what happens if you DON'T cashout - it says your money go towards "battle.net balance" what does that mean?
    Last edited by namelessone; 2011-12-19 at 02:13 AM.
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  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by sulfuric View Post
    I can't believe fanboys are actually defending this blatant scam.
    While I'm sure the cuts will be outrageous, it's not a scam.

    Let's say the article provided legitimate percentages, and you only made a quarter.

    It's not really a scam. You made a tiny bit of money, didn't lose anything, and the person got what they paid for. So it's not really a "scam", per se.

    Anyways, I knew the Auction House was going to be stupid. I'll probably never really use it except to sell a few items to put money into my Battle.net account, but the amount of people being all "DIABLO 3 IS GOING TO BE RUINED BY THE REAL WORLD AUCTION HOUSE" amaze me. I mean, why does it matter if people use it? It wont be any different than them buying stuff off of Ebay, and how did that effect you? It didn't effect you at all. So how is this going to suddenly be different?

    Unless you're one of the unfortunate souls who actually believes Diablo has a serious PvP angle to it.
    Last edited by JimPaladin; 2011-12-19 at 02:15 AM.

  8. #148
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Once again we return to the weird point where a game developer/publisher is clearly offering a service vastly inferior compared to pirate solutions.

    The right price?
    Blizzard can obviously offer much better security compared to pirates. But if that is going to tilt in Blizzards favor when i choose between Blizzard and Pirate solutions, everyone should ask this.

    Will i lose more money to scams compared to Blizzard?
    If i sell an item worth 10USD every single day, and the fee is roughly 4USD. Then Blizzards offer is favorable if scam rate is beyond 40%.
    But if i sell very valuable items for 100USD, then the scam rate would need to be 4%.

    Need help to choose? = (Value of item - fee) - (Value of item - scam rate)

    As in value = 10
    Fee = 4
    Scam rate = % of value of item (if value is 10, then scam rate would need to be 40% if fee is 4 USD.

    Example: Scam rate is 25%, fee is 4 USD.
    (10-4) - (10-25%) = -1.5 = Choose a pirate solution.

    Personally i find it hard to believe that scam rates would surpass 5%. And in that case, an item would need to be worth just under 100USD to justify using Blizzard.

    Luckily i will be playing on hardest, so this is a no-issue for me.
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    While I'm sure the cuts will be outrageous, it's not a scam.

    Let's say the article provided legitimate percentages, and you only made a quarter.

    It's not really a scam. You made a tiny bit of money, didn't lose anything, and the person got what they paid for. So it's not really a "scam", per se.

    Anyways, I knew the Auction House was going to be stupid. I'll probably never really use it except to sell a few items to put money into my Battle.net account, but the amount of people being all "DIABLO 3 IS GOING TO BE RUINED BY THE REAL WORLD AUCTION HOUSE" amaze me. I mean, why does it matter if people use it? It wont be any different than them buying stuff off of Ebay, and how did that effect you? It didn't effect you at all. So how is this going to suddenly be different?

    Unless you're one of the unfortunate souls who actually believes Diablo has a serious PvP angle to it.
    Dude, it's a scam. Someone paid 4 dollars for your item and you got twenty five cents of it? Thats a scam

  10. #150
    Mechagnome
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    All of those numbers are made up. Even the paypal number is wrong..if you got $1 via PayPal, they wouldn't charge you $1.25 for it.

    Stupid bloggers trying to get traffic.

  11. #151
    Meanwhile, at Valve...

    I find it curious how Valve have managed to retain their goodwill image while releasing the MannCo store which doesn't just charge people for selling items, it outright sells items, which imo is far, far worse. Yet you don't see people nerdrage about TF2. I guess they've played their cards a bit more carefully than Blizzard.

    If I absolutely must comment on the videos and not the incoherent, mindless Blizzard-bashing nerdrage going on in this thread, those numbers aren't official, and even if they were, they aren't final.
    This is my signature. You will now remember me.

  12. #152
    Ever since D3 was announced I knew I was going to play hardcore and nothing but hardcore, so this is just not a problem.
    Then again I recently took an arrow to the knee and I could use the extra fees.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Meanwhile, at Valve...

    I find it curious how Valve have managed to retain their goodwill image while releasing the MannCo store which doesn't just charge people for selling items, it outright sells items, which imo is far, far worse. Yet you don't see people nerdrage about TF2. I guess they've played their cards a bit more carefully than Blizzard.

    If I absolutely must comment on the videos and not the incoherent, mindless Blizzard-bashing nerdrage going on in this thread, those numbers aren't official, and even if they were, they aren't final.
    So you think that the standard form of f2p model is a bad thing now? How much do you pay to play TF2?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSilas View Post
    So you think that the standard form of f2p model is a bad thing now? How much do you pay to play TF2?
    The MannCo store was released a long time before the update that made the game F2P.

    Edit - Going off on a tangent, though; as to how much you pay to play TF2 nowadays, it's actually a very clever model. If you play it for any extended period of time your inventory gets filled up very quickly. As you gradually get more and more items, you hate every time you have to discard one. How to expand your inventory beyond the very limited starter inventory space? Become a premium player by purchasing an item from the MannCo store. Oh, no problem, you'll just buy one of those €0.50 items and effectively get the game for super cheap, right? Well, no, because you can only purchase stuff using funds in your Steam wallet, and the minimum amount you can transfer to that is €5 at a time. So with their "F2P" model you actually need to pay €5 if you want to keep the items you collect. I applaud it, really, because it's a nice way of enticing people into paying a minimum of €5 for the game. Anyway, that's unrelated to the point above as this only became relevant since the rather recent F2P update, but I thought I'd elaborate as you mentioned it.
    Last edited by Throrion; 2011-12-19 at 03:13 AM.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Meanwhile, at Valve...

    I find it curious how Valve have managed to retain their goodwill image while releasing the MannCo store which doesn't just charge people for selling items, it outright sells items, which imo is far, far worse. Yet you don't see people nerdrage about TF2. I guess they've played their cards a bit more carefully than Blizzard.

    If I absolutely must comment on the videos and not the incoherent, mindless Blizzard-bashing nerdrage going on in this thread, those numbers aren't official, and even if they were, they aren't final.
    Because TF2 became a free game as a result. Did this not occur to you? Does comparing a free game with a store to a subscription-based game with a store not seem odd?

    Not to mention that all non-cosmetic items in TF2 are ridiculously easy to get. Hats and cosmetics make up the function of the Mann Co. Store. Anyone who played the game before and after the change can tell you that the Mann. Co store made absolutely no difference outside of the hat economy.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 03:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    The MannCo store was released a long time before the update that made the game F2P.
    Because if the store failed when they made it F2P, the game would crumble.

    The store was introduced with the intent to make the game F2P if it were successful, and that's exactly what happened.
    Last edited by Eats Compost; 2011-12-19 at 03:11 AM.

  16. #156
    Stood in the Fire Derpdederp's Avatar
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    Lets look at this seriously for a moment.
    1. It is free if you don't sell a lot of stuff.
    2. Auction Closing Fee. Lets say, 10%.
    3. Send it to your battle.net, pay for WoW sub. Money in your pocket.
    4. See the above.
    So that brings it to a total of one, single fee for the average player. Honestly, paying a fee when your auction sells, is not that bad, even if it was 20%. Sell a 5$ item, get 4$ back.

  17. #157
    Field Marshal
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    This thread is a bigger joke than the RMAH ever were. Even if you consider the option that blizzard will take 125% of your revenue, then this does not matter to the buyer. If you want to earn money playing this game, just go away. That's just wrong, this is not supposed to be a job, it's a game.

    And for the morality crowd, ultimately this is all the constumers doing, if there was no one to buy, there would be noone to sell, people for some reason seems to be hooked on paying money to skip gameplay. I myself would prefer no RMAH, no third party sides, no account hackers. But that's never gonna happen, not because of blizzard or any other money grubbing company, but because people fuel it.

    Edit: Let me make a silly analogy for the sake of it.
    Did it make the nuclear bomb threat (for a moment ignoring any possibility of a current threat) any less real, that most of the worlds population was fully aware that dropping one would be stupid as hell. Make of it what you want
    Last edited by Kahnugo; 2011-12-19 at 03:26 AM.

  18. #158
    Listen to you people bitching and moaning about getting the oportunity to make some cash out of playing a game....


    OHH WATCH OUT some random fucking blogger has made up a bunch of values which means i will make nagative money on selling auctions... GET THE FUCKING PITCHFORKS EVERYBODY

    Honestly i cannot figure out what must go through some of your heads. If you boycott an entire game because of this RMAH you must be so fricken stubborn it is not funny. You think it such a bad thing that a company tries to make some money out of a service like this? when the bootleggers who have nothing to do with the development of the game or anything have been making such decent coin out of there less then legit services. WHERE IS THE PROBLEM ??? Tell me in a legit fucking argument what the problem with blizz trying to null out these illegit services and pass a bit of the coin back onto the consumer and themselves.... God Forbid....

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    Because TF2 became a free game as a result. Did this not occur to you? Does comparing a free game with a store to a subscription-based game with a store not seem odd?

    Not to mention that all non-cosmetic items in TF2 are ridiculously easy to get. Hats and cosmetics make up the function of the Mann Co. Store. Anyone who played the game before and after the change can tell you that the Mann. Co store made absolutely no difference outside of the hat economy.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 03:09 AM ----------



    Because if the store failed when they made it F2P, the game would crumble.

    The store was introduced with the intent to make the game F2P if it were successful, and that's exactly what happened.
    Again, that doesn't change the fact that there was a lengthy period of time where Valve blatantly and openly sold items, some of which give considerable advantages, in a game that you not only had to pay for, but also is all about competitive PvP by nature (unlike D3, where items don't give you advantages over other players). On a related note, since items are random drops, they aren't all ridiculously easy to get and the RNG will make you rage if you only play to get a specific item, especially just after a new update.

    Their intent doesn't really matter, because they let quite some time pass between the store update and the F2P update. And that's the period of time that I'm referring to; people weren't all nerdraging about it, and no fuss was made about it in general. Now, the equivalent would be if Blizzard announced that D3 would be a competitive PvP game based around arenas and that they would have a store where they wouldn't allow players to sell items for money, but would sell items for money themselves. But it's ok, they'd say, because they plan on making D3 an F2P game at some undisclosed point in the future. Can you imagine the shitstorm if that happened?

    But that's not even what's happening. Blizzard are "only" allowing people to sell items for real money, which, in my opinion, is far less severe than the above. They aren't adding neither gold nor items into the game's economy by having an infinite supply up for sale so long as they get money in return. But still, the sheer, utter nerdrage it invoked surpasses anything I've seen. I think it's just become the cool thing for hipster nerds to complain about Blizzard's decisions, really.
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  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Edit - Going off on a tangent, though; as to how much you pay to play TF2 nowadays, it's actually a very clever model. If you play it for any extended period of time your inventory gets filled up very quickly. As you gradually get more and more items, you hate every time you have to discard one. How to expand your inventory beyond the very limited starter inventory space? Become a premium player by purchasing an item from the MannCo store. Oh, no problem, you'll just buy one of those €0.50 items and effectively get the game for super cheap, right? Well, no, because you can only purchase stuff using funds in your Steam wallet, and the minimum amount you can transfer to that is €5 at a time. So with their "F2P" model you actually need to pay €5 if you want to keep the items you collect. I applaud it, really, because it's a nice way of enticing people into paying a minimum of €5 for the game. Anyway, that's unrelated to the point above as this only became relevant since the rather recent F2P update, but I thought I'd elaborate as you mentioned it.
    Are you serious?

    Collecting items? You will -never- reach the cap unless you're a hardcore collector who trades up and up and up in value. Have you forgotten about scrap crafting, that does away with every duplicate weapon that you have? The notion of anyone but those who trade up through the hat economy coming even close to hitting that cap is ridiculous.

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