Thread: Syria

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  1. #1301
    High Overlord Silhouette55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    We don't, and couldn't know. We have to work with what we do know, the ones in power now are corrupt, and subject their people to atrocities.

    The reasonable course of action, is to go with the unsure end result.
    Well, I think the reasonable course of action is to stay out and not risk our men and resources on an "unknown end result". But that is your opinion, I suppose.
    Last edited by Silhouette55; 2013-03-02 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Moar typos

  2. #1302
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ave07 View Post
    Ill be ok with it if we just sent drones to do the dirty work instead of risking a soldiers life in a war we shouldn't be part of.
    Fine by me, but give our ground troops a rest. 11 years+ in Afghanistan, 9 years in Iraq Round 2 and now talk of further wars in far off places that are no threat to our families back home. Our troops are weary after so many deployments, some people have spent years abroad being shot at and risking life and limb. With our Military budgets being cut further and being forced to work harder with less, now is the best time to let our troops and budget recover.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Even worse than I thought. Even more provincial backed by the "us" vs "other" mentality.
    Are you a soldier? Are you going over their to risk your life? If yes, then fine you have a right to your argument. If no, how can you justify sending others to their potential death when you are unwilling to risk your own life. Stop calling other people out for what you are inherently doing by refusing to go yourself.


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  4. #1304
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro1990 View Post
    Are you a soldier? Are you going over their to risk your life? If yes, then fine you have a right to your argument. If no, how can you justify sending others to their potential death when you are unwilling to risk your own life. Stop calling other people out for what you are inherently doing by refusing to go yourself.
    Throw the first stone fallacy?

  5. #1305
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Even worse than I thought. Even more provincial backed by the "us" vs "other" mentality.
    Get off your moral high horse. Nobody has any moral obligation to care about everyone else in the world who's suffering. I refuse people asking for donations all the time.
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  6. #1306
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Throw the first stone fallacy?
    The rebels would accept you, theres plenty of foreigners fighting for them. Just make your way there, they will supply your training and weapons.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Throw the first stone fallacy?
    It's different when you transition from judging and or punishing people to putting lives at risk. Sure I think what's going over there is wrong and it may warrant our intervention, but that doesn't mean I will so casually throw our soldiers lives at risk.


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  8. #1308
    So 2 years on the general consensus is still "fuck em, it's not my business"?
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-03-02 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #1309
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Doesn't mean we have to commit any Military forces. I am getting fed up with being told that we are trying to police the world, fine, let the world police itself for a while. NATO should look after its own and let the African and middle eastern countries beat the living shit out of each other, as they have always done throughout history.
    Oh I don't want to commit ground forces any more than you do. I don't care *that* much about these people. I'm just saying lob a few missiles and artillery shells in from one of our gulf fleets. It's not like Assad is going to retaliate. If he did, he'd be out a couple of boats and jets, and we'd be out some ammunition.

    But to be frank, I'm not gonna lose sleep either way.

  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Let me correct you. Are strangers lives worth the lives of me or my men? No.
    The higher-ups don't see it that way, sadly. At least I am never sent abroad when it comes to protecting my land, but I can completely relate to your feelings, of being sent somewhere far off, losing good people on the way, to protect people who would gladly burn your flag a day later, out of mindless hatred.

  11. #1311
    Scarab Lord Skroe's Avatar
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    We need to make sure it goes on as long and as dramatically as possible.

    The Civil War is ironically, very, very good for US security objectives in the reason. It's acting as a attractor for regional militants to go fight the good fight, which they are doing there, and not Iraq, which not coincidentally, has completely stabilized the odd bombing aside. The more Iraqi men fighting in Syria and not Iraq, the longer time Iraq has to secure its foundation.

    But more importantly the Syrian Civil was has been a strategic catastrophe for Iran. They're losing their proxy, and are having to work very, very hard to keep him from collapsing quickly. And in the process they are losing high respected, highly experienced military leaders... leader who are having unfortunate accidents. The longer this goes, the more Iran is going to sink resources into it.

    And then of course, there is Syria itself. It's kind of ironic really. They spent years allowing and encouraging the flow of arms and men into Iraq, just to fuck with the US. And now they are surprised that men who learned how to suicide bomb a check-point in Iraq, came home and years later decided to apply those battlefield lessons against the Alawite regime they loathe? Syria traded its future on its involvement in Iraq, and now the future has demanded its due. They're going to have, even post-civil war, Iraq-level problems for decades, because the insurgency they encouraged in Iraq came home, and its going to be very hard to get those behaviors out of people.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 09:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    The higher-ups don't see it that way, sadly. At least I am never sent abroad when it comes to protecting my land, but I can completely relate to your feelings, of being sent somewhere far off, losing good people on the way, to protect people who would gladly burn your flag a day later, out of mindless hatred.
    Flag burning is silly symbolism. As always we intervene or modulate our involvement because it suits our strategic goals. We will swallow hard, do crappy things and eat shit, if it means over the longer terms the benefits are substantial. Mobs of Angry lawyers in Pakistan have been burning our flag for the better part of 15 years over one reason or another, going back the the 1998/1999 India-Pakistan nuclear crisis. Are we supposed to not keep our thumb firmly on top of Pakistan and let them do what they want with their barely secured nuclear weapons because of that? Are we supposed to shun them because of their excesses? Of course not.


    That said we may put CIA and Special Forces in Syria, but not a large army. Obama is a smart man. He knows that the Middle East was yesterdays battlefield. For two years he and both his prior Secretary's of defense and Hilary Clinton have been working hard to redeploy US forces to East Asia. From moving 60% of the US Navy there to allowing US Warships to dock in New Zealand to permanent detachments of thousands of marines to Australia to the still-in-progress reopening of Clark Air Base (once the largest US Installation outside of North America)... our energy now is on building up forces in China for superpower warfare, to keep the Chinese in their cage. It isn't Dubai that is basing our B-2 Spirits, but Guam.

    To put it bluntly, we're in the business of dragonslaying now. Urban warfare in desert countries is totally for the 'aughts'. We got bigger fish to fry, and investing hundreds of billions of dollars in the Middle East security which provides 1/18th world GDP and 1/8th its population pales in comparison to investing in East Asian security, where we have partners worth a damn, and is a region with over half the world's population and over half the world's GDP.

  12. #1312
    Immortal Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    So 2 years on the general consensus is still "fuck em, it's not my business"?
    pretty much, im of the opinion myself, i mean they are doing relatively well they just captured a provincial captiol after all
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  13. #1313
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Oh I don't want to commit ground forces any more than you do. I don't care *that* much about these people. I'm just saying lob a few missiles and artillery shells in from one of our gulf fleets. It's not like Assad is going to retaliate. If he did, he'd be out a couple of boats and jets, and we'd be out some ammunition.

    But to be frank, I'm not gonna lose sleep either way.
    If Assad was going to retaliate for direct U.S. strikes on 'his' forces, I doubt he's stupid enough to send 2nd-line Soviet/Russian-equipped forces against a Carrier Battle Group. Instead, he'd just transfer some weaponry, maybe from the WMD programs Israel insists he has, to an anti-US terror group (the U.S. government assures me there are tons of those out there, just waiting to attack America).

  14. #1314
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    OP uses no real sources and just expects us to believe him.

  15. #1315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    pretty much, im of the opinion myself, i mean they are doing relatively well they just captured a provincial captiol after all
    I find it disgusting to preach this kind of mentality. Honestly, it's the epitome of "us" vs "them" tribal mentality, as if they're some subspecies. Ironically liberals and conservatives seem to agree on this point of isolationism and laissez-faire.

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    So 2 years on the general consensus is still "fuck em, it's not my business"?
    It isn't.

    If we intervene, they'll say "get out of our homeland you Christian heathens" and up the attacks on our civilian populations.

    If we don't intervene, they'll say "why aren't you helping us?"

    Much better for us (i.e. NATO countries) to just stay the heck out of Syria. I personally, as a civilian in a European country, wouldn't mind a bit less of the whole "in the name of anti-terrorism, you shall now be checked a second time at the airport". Although they have been reducing it over the last two years. Would be nice to watch the News without a section about a soldier that had his head blown off by an IED in Iraq/Afghanistan too.
    Last edited by Butler Log; 2013-03-05 at 02:27 AM.
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  17. #1317
    Titan Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    If we intervene, they'll say "get out of our homeland you Christian heathens" and up the attacks on our civilian populations.
    Oddly enough, if we do intervene, the Syrian Christians would be fucked as they support Assad.

  18. #1318
    The Lightbringer DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    This is a fight with no side in the right. The regime is evil and the rebels are terrorists. This is not like some of the other Middle Eastern conflicts where one side was a clear lesser evil or a good to some degree, and the question was whether to support the lesser evil or marginal good, or to let both sides fight it out. The first question that must be asked for Syria is whether either side is worth intervening on behalf of. The current answer as far as I can tell is "no".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Oddly enough, if we do intervene, the Syrian Christians would be fucked as they support Assad.
    Sadly, better the devil they know than the potenial radical Islamist horde taking over and wiping them all out.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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  19. #1319
    Yeah, we would have the choice between:

    Supporting Asaad, who has committed several crimes against his people in the name of halting the "unrest"

    and

    Supporting Al'Qaeda operatives who are fighting with the same guns that shot against our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, who seek to depose Asaad.
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  20. #1320
    Immortal Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    I find it disgusting to preach this kind of mentality. Honestly, it's the epitome of "us" vs "them" tribal mentality, as if they're some subspecies. Ironically liberals and conservatives seem to agree on this point of isolationism and laissez-faire.
    how so America fought its civil war alone... well mostly alone Great Britain kind of supported the south
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

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