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  1. #1

    Guild applicants STILL not including logs?

    We are ranked 2nd and one of two 25m guilds on our realm. Hardly a top-500, but good enough to turn heads on our own realm and draw players without having to spam trade. And yet, despite progressing through hardmodes, we still get applications that don't include logs on the part of the application that very clearly says "Link some logs (this is required)." Seriously. What. The. Hell.

    Thanks to LFR, an applicant can run half of DS and have a complete set of good logs to app with in literally less than an hour. I think there's no excuse for this any more, and to me, not including logs means an applicant is either technologically challenged (bad) or lazy (very bad).

    We can't be the only mid-range guild experiencing this. Do other guilds still get this, or is it just our realm's recruiting pool? How do you guys deal with this, especially on apps that are otherwise decent?

  2. #2
    There was really no excuse before, imo. If you can't take the time to run a log, then you probably need to work on some priorities. It's not exactly hard to run the client yourself and upload them. If they can't take the time to do it, then you should probably pass on them. It's what my guild will do. It's too late in the game to take none logged players. Imo of course.

  3. #3
    Stevo,

    If the player isn't good enough to record his information on an application that requires it, they probably aren't worth your time brother .

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman View Post
    How do you guys deal with this, especially on apps that are otherwise decent?
    denied

    there is 0 chance to know if he is decent without logs

  5. #5
    Deleted
    If the app is decent, tell them they have like 24 or 48 hours to supply the logs. If the app is "ok", then decline because if they CBA to read the manual and put time into the application, they CBA going for it 100%. This could be the case aswell for the first example, but if the rest of the application is great, it might be a stupid mistake and not (as in the second example) sheer ignorance.

  6. #6
    If he isn't smart enough to know how to post logs or doesn't even take the time to post something like "I'll get lots from this weeks LFR run since my guild doesn't run any" then they aren't worth your time.

  7. #7
    Have had people apply w/o:

    Armory
    Spec
    Class
    Name

    WRONG SERVER!

  8. #8
    There are tons of skilled players that cannot be bothered to track logs, or simply don't care that much about meters. It is perfectly possible to be excellent at your class without logging every raid.

    That said, if your guild app clearly requires it, something should be included like a "references available upon request" line on a resume.

    Nowadays with cross-realm REALID functions, you could simply group with someone before a ginvite (say you want to see dummy dps capabilities, then do Ultraxion). This would only take 15 minutes, which is not much longer than the time it takes to upload a log.

    By requiring logs, yes you are weeding out a lot of bad players who are entry-level to raiding, but you are also leaving out an amount of good able players as well.

    Open up a communication, guild apps are a two way street. Be social instead of so cold w this: "link logs or nothx" attitude.

    my two cents
    -playing since open beta
    cata: 9/13hm t11, 6/7hm t12, currently 8/8 normal

  9. #9
    my two cents
    -playing since open beta
    cata: 9/13hm t11, 6/7hm t12, currently 8/8 normal
    yeah and what, its like world top 10000, gratz
    if you are serious about raiding, you should have logs sorted, otherwise dont bother with it, it is required for progression and there is nothing else to say

  10. #10
    Dreadlord
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    My guild is now the #1 25m on our server (other went 10m) and we actually put the time in to LOOK UP logs. Get the toon name and guild from the app and go... don't sound so freaking lazy and elitist, you're probably missing out on good people by being a douche.
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
    Our characters are wearing the same pair of underwear, since like, Level 1. Damn that's unsanitary as hell.

  11. #11
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Arent link logs a bit outdated now?
    Its better to recrut a raider and test it in lfr yourself. Much better info than logs (wich can somethimes be faked if person knows how).

    I suggest you take them to alt LFR runs---thats the best way to recrut now (or some heroic).
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  12. #12
    You can easily view their logs at wow-heroes page for that character. WH automatically includes ten most recent logs, as well as any ranking info. Here's my page, as an example: wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Garona&name=charodey

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by abovebeyond View Post
    There are tons of skilled players that cannot be bothered to track logs, or simply don't care that much about meters. It is perfectly possible to be excellent at your class without logging every raid.
    Logs show you how they really play. Are they keeping self buff uptimes? Are they properly using CDs? Are they getting hit by avoidable damage? Are they healing on par for their gear? Sure, you can have x person say he's a great raider, but he's a tank who never pops his raid saving cool downs and logs will reflect that.

  14. #14
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    Wow...some people take this game FAR too seriously.

    <Infracted>
    Last edited by mmoc2e3dee3473; 2011-12-13 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #15
    Logs are the type of thing that are nice to have but outright requiring them is a bit excessive. Logs, while detailed, still can't tell you some very important information. Mind you I'm not saying not to gather basic information about a player such as recount screens from boss fights, because that is very important. I am saying by making a strict requirement, you may be limiting the applicants and turning away lot of good players simply based on the fact they relied on their guild running logs.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Eis's Avatar
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    When you're considering off-server apps, and would be asking them to transfer, it's not worth your time or their time to have them do so without logs. They could have horrendously bad awareness, or could just not be up to what you're looking for.
    Having logs saves the applicant 25 bucks that could be potentially wasted. It's not elitist, it's smart.
    Getting logs is also super easy, especially with LFR. Another thing is, if they "cannot be bothered to track logs, or simply don't care that much about meters" then why should a guild be bothered to accept them? Also, logs show more than just healing/dps meters. It shows spell usage, avoidance of mechanics, etc.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Exiztence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abovebeyond View Post
    There are tons of skilled players that cannot be bothered to track logs, or simply don't care that much about meters. It is perfectly possible to be excellent at your class without logging every raid.

    That said, if your guild app clearly requires it, something should be included like a "references available upon request" line on a resume.

    Nowadays with cross-realm REALID functions, you could simply group with someone before a ginvite (say you want to see dummy dps capabilities, then do Ultraxion). This would only take 15 minutes, which is not much longer than the time it takes to upload a log.

    By requiring logs, yes you are weeding out a lot of bad players who are entry-level to raiding, but you are also leaving out an amount of good able players as well.

    Open up a communication, guild apps are a two way street. Be social instead of so cold w this: "link logs or nothx" attitude.

    my two cents
    -playing since open beta
    cata: 9/13hm t11, 6/7hm t12, currently 8/8 normal
    Considering how many applications can some guilds be getting and seeing some columns are clearly marked as must then not bothering to fill those columns is just reason to decline, writing good application takes time and it is you trying to convince the guild that you are the one they are looking for, expecting 15 minutes of time atop of reading application is just not going to happen, because quite honestly if you cannot be arsed loging some raid then you are probably not what that guild is looking for.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Wow...some people take this game FAR too seriously.
    Because I wouldn't want to recruit someone who can't pull their weight, or mismanages their CDs and ends up wasting my and 23 other raiders time? Sounds reasonable to me. This is a hobby, sure, but you shouldn't be messing with 24 other peoples times.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    My guild is now the #1 25m on our server (other went 10m) and we actually put the time in to LOOK UP logs. Get the toon name and guild from the app and go... don't sound so freaking lazy and elitist, you're probably missing out on good people by being a douche.
    This pretty much. Alright, I havent been in a world 500 guild. But I was in a server 3 or so back in Wrath, and I got in without logs. I dont really know how to do logs (I can find out pretty easy tho). I consider myself pretty skilled tbh, I was a well known tank back in wrath and I perform well in raids, I know everything about the class I raid with etc etc.

    EDIT: On every app I've ever written, someone told me it was a well written app (with or without logs).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    Logs are the type of thing that are nice to have but outright requiring them is a bit excessive. Logs, while detailed, still can't tell you some very important information. Mind you I'm not saying not to gather basic information about a player such as recount screens from boss fights, because that is very important. I am saying by making a strict requirement, you may be limiting the applicants and turning away lot of good players simply based on the fact they relied on their guild running logs.
    They can spend 30 minutes in LFR running their own logs and provide you with something.

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