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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    You need to learn to detach yourself from the concepts that you're writing about. Try to put yourself into the mindset of a person that believes in fate. Forget about your beliefs for a moment and just read the poem, look at it objectively, and start writing.

    You're going to run into situations that conflict with your beliefs pretty regularly as you age and experience the world. Putting yourself in another person's shoes is a very valuable skill, so start practicing.
    this is great advice. I don't know if your school has a debate club but this is common practice to have a topic and be able to debate both sides. If you do have a debate club ask their instructor for help or some students.

    To help a little, make some bullet points on fate and expand on them.

  2. #22
    When i was not allowed to argue or disagree with topics on papers , i would fill my papers with a massive amount of cynicism and sarcasm. I made my way through college doing it that way. Though i was rarely forced to agree.

    I did a political science major, so i always had an inclination to write a bunch of bullshit.

  3. #23

    Explain, don't advocate

    From your description of the essay prompt, it sounds like the professor wants you to explain what the poem is about. That doesn't mean you have to agree with or advocate for what it says. Focus on the ideas that the poem is trying to express: what is the author trying to say and why is he saying it? You're being asked to provide clarity, not take a position on the topic.

    As others have mentioned, being able to put yourself in another's shoes and to take on their mindset is an important skill. You can't hope to change somebody's mind if you can't understand what they're thinking.

  4. #24
    You can also write it in the third person perspective, meaning that you're doing a paper on the AUTHOR's beliefs and arguments, not your own. By taking this detachment it makes it a lot easier to tackle a subject an opinion you oppose.
    Last edited by ptwonline; 2011-12-13 at 12:38 AM.

  5. #25
    I'm done with the introductory paragraph now, I think I understand what I need to do now. Thanks a lot guys, definitely got a lot more help than I expected.

  6. #26
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    I hate those kinds of essays/papers.

    In 10 years of school and 4,5 years of uni I've had my fair share of those.

    You just have to learn to be a slight hypocrite or learn to detach yourself from the issue. Whichever comes easier or is closer to your heart.

    Better yet, find something you DO believe in and draw parallels.

    "I do not believe in fate per se, but I do believe that certain individuals are drawn to each other by similarities that exceed the usual traits that attract human beings to one another. Whether such traits are derived from belonging to a certain caste or a shared social circle.
    Perhaps such people are simply coincidentally well suited to each other due to upbringing or life experience, perhaps it's a pattern I just don't fully understand, but I can't really deny that a certain amount of natural magnetism is often present in relations between people, and some may describe that as 'fate'..."

    This would be an example of trying to play around the issue, not really submitting to the idea of "it's destinty hurr durr" or outright denying it and getting into a confrontation over the matter.

    Try to use that kind of style and evolve the line of thought further. If you have the makings of a demagogue, it'll come easily enough. If not - just experiment and do what comes naturally.
    Last edited by zealous; 2011-12-12 at 11:42 PM.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  7. #27
    not really helpful, but it sounds like an assignment i had to do, i don't follow politics and the teacher made us all read some articles and viewpoints of candidates and compare them. politics and reading about them for me is like a non believer reading the bible, isn't gonna happen

  8. #28
    I don't believe in homework but you pretty much have to if you want to be successful. I thought that writing papers was all about BSing so this sounds like a good introductory paper for you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm in a bit of a tough spot in school as in my English class we have gotten to the idea of fate, and quite a few of the students believe in fate. We were assigned to write an essay on Nemesis by Ralph Waldo Emerson, and I'm really having trouble typing this essay without punching my monitor. I just don't know how I can write an entire paper on something that don't believe in. I just want to type out all the reasons I think fate isn't real... just.. how do I do it? >.<

    Please note that I am not mocking people who believe in fate, I mean no harm, I just don't know how I can write about this... It's like, if you do believe in fate, write a paper on why you think it isn't real. Tough, huh?
    I always followed the easy solution and when I was put in such positions in school I just delivered bullshit. When asked about it I just gave them a truthfull answer, that I don't agree with that and thus I can not concede to what I am asked to.

    On the other hand I found out later in life that there is always another way to go for things. So just write the paper. I take it, it less than 2000 words ( I actually just saw the poem so I take it, it is even less than 500) so just do as you are told (by me ^^). Try to see the point of the writer on the matter and report than instead of your feelings towards it. It is not that hard! Either way you will have to be in someone else's shoes sometime in your life so that's a good practise.

    If you so strongly believe that it is rubbish then treat no other way. Just try to explain why.



    Side note (totally needed): People that consider art, of very high value usually expect others to follow the same route on the matter. If they don't they are considered orangutans and every thought towards the matter is discarded unless there is a change of mind. That comes from personal experience and I am someone who passed several "literacy" courses with great success yet I would prefer (love) to step on a dog's crap rather than deal with these stuff for life.

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral Talokami's Avatar
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    Hmm. Well here's the thoughts of an English major for you:

    Funny thing is, it appears that Emerson shares your opinion somewhat. Or at the very least, he's not overly fond of the concept of fate. The language he uses in the last four lines has very strong negative imagery. Emerson wishes to struggle against Fate, but he is aware that it creates the paradox of falling into Fate's hands. This struggle against destiny, against Fate, is expected of him and he wants no part of it. However, the more he struggles against his Fate, the more he is doing what is predicted for him.

    The poem is part of the long and storied philosophical argument of pre-destination vs. free will and that is a doozy of a concept. It's interesting but very headache inducing. >_<

    Edit: Sorry if this has been addressed, but is this at the college or high school level? Just curious.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    I don't think we are allowed to, unfortunately.
    You're going to encounter this a lot in school, honestly. You have to learn to deal with it, the assignment is not meant to see if you know how to complain about a topic of your choice, but that you know how to complain in general. A good writer can write about anything. Personal feelings do not matter. In a debate team you would be given a side of an issue (for or against smoking/etc) and you have to argue that position regardless of how you feel, that's the job.

    Prove you're smart by making a great essay on a topic you disagree with. Even better, you're more likely to get a decent grade if you do at all a half decent job writing about a subject the teacher likes. My father went from Ds to B+ and better by switching from being a conservative to being a liberal for one hour three times a week in college.

  12. #32
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    If you are a US student then you are in luck. your teacher can not force you to right a paper on religion (separation of church and state). you will need to bring this up with the teacher and workout a new writing assignment. It will most likely be a paper on why you don't believe in it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm in a bit of a tough spot in school as in my English class we have gotten to the idea of fate, and quite a few of the students believe in fate. We were assigned to write an essay on Nemesis by Ralph Waldo Emerson, and I'm really having trouble typing this essay without punching my monitor. I just don't know how I can write an entire paper on something that don't believe in. I just want to type out all the reasons I think fate isn't real... just.. how do I do it? >.<

    Please note that I am not mocking people who believe in fate, I mean no harm, I just don't know how I can write about this... It's like, if you do believe in fate, write a paper on why you think it isn't real. Tough, huh?
    What makes you think it should represent your real feelings. You should lie to the full extent of your mental lieing capacities.

    You're making a common mistake. You care. You shouldn't care about anything except for you grade and the optimal way to achieve the highest possible grade with the least amount of effort. Lucky for you you got to write about something that's so vaugh that anything will do.

  14. #34
    Whenever I write about something I don't believe in I usually end up being satirical or make subtle jokes. For example, We read a book in my AP Comp class called the "Book of Yaak" So I titled the essay "this essay makes me want to Yaak"
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  15. #35
    You should clarify what you are allowed to write about with your teacher. It is plan weird that you aren't allowed to criticism a poem in an essay on it. Though I don't see why personal beliefs come into this, this seems more along the lines of discussing the message of the poem and how well it is at conveying it instead of how you feel about fate in general.

    Though in general it's never about how you feel, but what you can justify with evidence.

  16. #36
    Warchief Cherrysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    You can write how you don't believe in fate and explain why. If you essay has good argumentation and everything, you should get a good grade.
    Exactly right, not everyone believes the same thing, so OP write an Essay about why you don't believe in it, and provide some sources/ideas to back up your claims and you will be good to go Why would you not be allowed too, your Teacher/School cannot force ideas on to you. If you make a good argument, well written and with passion your teacher cant knock it

  17. #37
    Dreadlord Marimba's Avatar
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    You can easily write a paper about a topic while at the same time critiquing it. I had to write a paper analyzing that Warren Buffet story a few months back about the whole taxes thing, I laid out his argument and at the same time wrote about how his situation was an exception, not the general rule and I got the max grade on it. Unless your prof is an uncompromising tool, most teachers like it when their students question stuff.

  18. #38
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    just pretend to agree with it? i dindt care about half the shit we had to write about, you don't really need to either. although is this for School, college or uni? if its just for school it doesn't matter too much, college or uni and you should be allowed to argue against it.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Marimba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    just pretend to agree with it? i dindt care about half the shit we had to write about, you don't really need to either. although is this for School, college or uni? if its just for school it doesn't matter too much, college or uni and you should be allowed to argue against it.
    Ya this too, I often write papers from the perspective of someone who believes in the topic.

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