Page 1 of 5
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Dreadlord Gouca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    751

    Blood Death Knights doing ultimate crits as tank.. what the hell?!

    Last night, I queud for a BG as arms warrior (item level 372, 3.9k resilience). What the hell is up with Blood DKs?!

    My crits to them (while CS is up) are 4-12k, whereas they do crit. me 25-27k with the damn Deathstrike.

    Alright, fine this way. BUT: they also take 3x less damage, have same healing as any healer, and the avoidance of any PvE. tank.

    This piece of **** DK with no enchants and bad gear; --REMOVED--
    Crits me for 25k x 2 as tank in 2 seconds?!

    http://imageshack.us/g/210/wtf1k.jpg/

    WHAT THE HELL ?!

    Don't name & shame
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2011-12-17 at 10:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Yep, but BG's are BG's, try playing a blood dk in 2vs2 and see how good they are :3

    And yes i know its especially annoying as a warr / rogue to take down a blood dk, but spell casters have it way easier.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Fiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    963
    4-12k because he activated defensive cooldowns. Also don't forget about shields.
    But defensive cooldowns can't last forever. If you will try to stand still and exchange hits, you will lose. Fighting with DK requires some brains. Proper kiting, stuns, roots, self-healing allows some skilled melee classes to win duel with blood dk.

    If you don't understand dk mechanics, if you don't know dk weaknesses, if should learn more. And probably even to make DK alt.

  4. #4
    25k crits happen when everyone attacks said DK and stacks his vengeance into oblivion. And then someone is in melee range (where you should not be) and gets hit for 25k or even more.

  5. #5
    That, and it's quite possible that your big crit simply got eaten by blood shield, leaving only a small amount on top of the absorb to actually deal damage.
    Different mechanics are different.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Gouca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiana View Post
    4-12k because he activated defensive cooldowns. Also don't forget about shields.
    But defensive cooldowns can't last forever. If you will try to stand still and exchange hits, you will lose. Fighting with DK requires some brains. Proper kiting, stuns, roots, self-healing allows some skilled melee classes to win duel with blood dk.

    If you don't understand dk mechanics, if you don't know dk weaknesses, if should learn more. And probably even to make DK alt.
    There isn't much of a CC I can make. Hamstring is counterattacked by his frost thing that snares me to his melee range. If I run away I am gripped back. The only "proper" stun as Warrior is charge's 2 second stun, and Throwdown's 4 second stun (with the CD of 45 second). My every second attack is sucked into dodge / parry, and hey - what's the point of kiting him? My rend does 1-2% of his total HP, and DW is only procced of a crit (yeppee 7% crit chance). DK easily overheals Warriors' DoT.

    I just dueled a blood DK; I used all the necessary cooldowns and healings, but could not last for a minute (in the end DK had full hp).

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-13 at 02:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadesh View Post
    25k crits happen when everyone attacks said DK and stacks his vengeance into oblivion. And then someone is in melee range (where you should not be) and gets hit for 25k or even more.
    Kiting as Warrior is pointless; I have no ranged damage output and my DoTs are extremely weak (1-4% of a Blood DKs 170k health base).

  7. #7
    Myself i tryed a blood dk in a PvP.It is doing really high dmg and ur there's too much healing in blood spec so ur hp keeps high all the time

  8. #8
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiana View Post
    4-12k because he activated defensive cooldowns. Also don't forget about shields.
    But defensive cooldowns can't last forever. If you will try to stand still and exchange hits, you will lose. Fighting with DK requires some brains. Proper kiting, stuns, roots, self-healing allows some skilled melee classes to win duel with blood dk.

    If you don't understand dk mechanics, if you don't know dk weaknesses, if should learn more. And probably even to make DK alt.
    There is no such thing as "melee outskilling Blood", it's more of "that Blood DK was such a complete fucking retard he didn't know how to use anything but Death Strike." Literally every single tool a melee class has, Blood either has itself, or can counter.

    Chains of Ice is stronger than nearly every other melee snare in the game. IBF costs no RP and can be used to break stuns, and also provides further immunity to stuns for its duration. AMS neuters any sort of non-physical damage and also allows the DK, with good timing, to avoid being affected by the handful of things that might cause him problems (roots, primarily.) Death Strike is a primary strike for Blood, unlike Frost and Unholy (there is never a time where you need to decide on what t use that FU pair on - it will always be Death Strike, even for damage), and so does not have as much of a resource cost as it does for them.

    Rune Strike is the preferred RP dump for Blood, and Rune Strike directly counters any and all sorts of avoidance (evasion tanking, etc.) Because of the necessary buff for PvE, you also cannot rely on high avoidance to prevent the DK from healing between CC cycles. And, as you've already said, any melee trying to take a Blood DK in a straight fight will lose terribly.

    But, as I've pointed out, and as others have, there is no melee that cannot fight a DK in anything but a straight fight. Kiting as any melee spec, even for the ones that can technically pull it off, does not do nearly enough damage to compensate for the DK's immense self-healing. You're gonna tell me an Enhancement Shaman or Subtlety Rogue can reliably and successfully kite a Blood DK to death? I'm gonna tell you you're full of shit.

    Blood needs damage nerfs to begin with - they're far ahead of all three other tanks in PvE, and I'd much rather Blood get damage nerfs than we make the other three have damage as ridiculous as Blood's.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  9. #9
    I don't know if calling someone a piece of shit and then posting their amoury is considered naming and shaming or not, but I'm pretty sure you shouldnt be doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illunis View Post
    Stop looking for sense in a game that mails you dragons.
    This is your stop, time to get off the bandwagon.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnalz View Post
    Yep, but BG's are BG's, try playing a blood dk in 2vs2 and see how good they are :3

    And yes i know its especially annoying as a warr / rogue to take down a blood dk, but spell casters have it way easier.
    last night Neilyo streamed 2s...rogue/rogue vs blood/blood...15min matches. This damn DK survived both rogues with dance up in a 2v1 situation...thats just stupid...

    btw: one win one lose...

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Stanton Biston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Corvallis, Oregon
    Posts
    4,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandil View Post
    last night Neilyo streamed 2s...rogue/rogue vs blood/blood...15min matches. This damn DK survived both rogues with dance up in a 2v1 situation...thats just stupid...

    btw: one win one lose...
    I'd note every paladin could do the same, and with more consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    Considering you just linked a graph with no data plotted on it as factual evidence, I think Stanton can infer whatever the hell he wants.
    Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence - Sometimes I abbreviate this ECREE

  12. #12
    I've seen two blood DK tanks (but in LFD) topping dps meters... In both cases they couldn't resist of bragging how bad their group was lol.

  13. #13
    I beat blood DKs on all of my characters, all the time. Rogue, Paladin, Hunter, my badly-geared mage, and DK - Blood, Frost or Unholy.
    Learn how Blood works and what to do against their defensives.
    During DRW, kite them.
    During IBF, root or disarm them.
    Layer a silence with a stun to avoid them immedietly IBFing it.
    Disarming them after doing your burst then get away from them - Death Strike is only strong when it's used within 5s of them taking burst damage.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-13 at 12:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    There is no such thing as "melee outskilling Blood", it's more of "that Blood DK was such a complete fucking retard he didn't know how to use anything but Death Strike." Literally every single tool a melee class has, Blood either has itself, or can counter.

    Chains of Ice is stronger than nearly every other melee snare in the game. IBF costs no RP and can be used to break stuns, and also provides further immunity to stuns for its duration. AMS neuters any sort of non-physical damage and also allows the DK, with good timing, to avoid being affected by the handful of things that might cause him problems (roots, primarily.) Death Strike is a primary strike for Blood, unlike Frost and Unholy (there is never a time where you need to decide on what t use that FU pair on - it will always be Death Strike, even for damage), and so does not have as much of a resource cost as it does for them.

    Rune Strike is the preferred RP dump for Blood, and Rune Strike directly counters any and all sorts of avoidance (evasion tanking, etc.) Because of the necessary buff for PvE, you also cannot rely on high avoidance to prevent the DK from healing between CC cycles. And, as you've already said, any melee trying to take a Blood DK in a straight fight will lose terribly.

    But, as I've pointed out, and as others have, there is no melee that cannot fight a DK in anything but a straight fight. Kiting as any melee spec, even for the ones that can technically pull it off, does not do nearly enough damage to compensate for the DK's immense self-healing. You're gonna tell me an Enhancement Shaman or Subtlety Rogue can reliably and successfully kite a Blood DK to death? I'm gonna tell you you're full of shit.

    Blood needs damage nerfs to begin with - they're far ahead of all three other tanks in PvE, and I'd much rather Blood get damage nerfs than we make the other three have damage as ridiculous as Blood's.
    I'm going to discount your whole post - and I mean this in the nicest way possible for a post so full of Whine:
    You are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
    Disect the class and outplay it. It takes more skill to kill a blood DK than it takes to play one, but there's a very prominent skill ceiling a Blood DK can get to.

    Edit: Death Strike is only super strong 5seconds or less after you burst them. Read its tooltip sometime, and try to use that period to burst and flee.
    Last edited by Minky; 2011-12-13 at 12:57 PM.

  14. #14
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Minky View Post
    I'm going to discount your whole post - and I mean this in the nicest way possible for a post so full of Whine:
    You are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
    Disect the class and outplay it. It takes more skill to kill a blood DK than it takes to play one, but there's a very prominent skill ceiling a Blood DK can get to.

    Edit: Death Strike is only super strong 5seconds or less after you burst them. Read its tooltip sometime, and try to use that period to burst and flee.
    And you think even a semi-competent DK is going to sit there and let you kite him? Even Blood has strong anti-kiting tools, it's just part of the DK kit.

    Like I said, put some videos up. Show us that your DK isn't making idiotic mistakes.

    And then show us how good you are by beating him with a Warrior, and then beat him with an Enhancement Shaman. Since you've managed to read a tooltip, you can clearly beat them without even trying now, right?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  15. #15
    27k crits, if only they were so low. My highest crit to a player with the current welfare gear has been way above 40k. To a PvE geared 70-86k. 86k being the highest crit to a druid. This is with 388 lvl pvp gear. Oh, and i love how easy it is to kill healers with DRW + ERW while the melee (derp) keeps stacking vengeance on me at the same time.

  16. #16
    then 2 seconds later a rogue shivs the dk and he starts hiting you for 5k damg a deathstrike and you proced to disarm then roflstomp him as he is now disarmed with 15k less attack power and is unable to generate more ap for another 8 seconds ie the time when you throw on the hurt.

  17. #17
    its called vengeance...

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Gouca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    its called vengeance...
    Which was made for tanking purposes, not PvP. It's a poorly designed feature that makes tanks killing machines in the PvP.

  19. #19
    You just shiv off vengeance after you burst them. It's pretty simple. The tricky part is kiting them until you can make them eat a full kidney with dance.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Blood needs damage nerfs to begin with - they're far ahead of all three other tanks in PvE, and I'd much rather Blood get damage nerfs than we make the other three have damage as ridiculous as Blood's.
    DKs always have been and always will be damage based threat tanks and because of this DKs have always had higher DPS numbers as tanks (with the exception of Paladins getting a free damage increase against undead trash in ICC). It's the way the class has always worked and as this game is centered on PvE there is no reason to nerf that damage just because people can't figure out how to handle them in PvP.

    Things like Vengeance benefit DK tanks the most because of this but at the same time they were the tanking class that needed it the most because since their introduction to the game they've usually been on the lower end in terms of TPS. People don't like it because they are not used to it but the fact is DK tanking is finally working correctly after being around for over 3 years.

    You want to kill a Blood DK in PvP, learn to use casters correctly. If you don't have one to lock up the DK that's not the DK's fault. Rogues spent the first 5+ years being the ultimate melee class in PvP until Cata came around. It's about time something other then a Rogue is able to stand 1v1 vs any other melee.
    Last edited by Organoth; 2011-12-13 at 06:33 PM.
    Cooler Master HAF X : Intel Core i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz : Corsair A70 cooler : 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Vengeance LP : ASUS P8Z68 V-PRO/Gen3 : EVGA GTX GTX 670 FTW SIG2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •