WOTLK vs Cataclysm Raid Content

[Dtere1]

So, being that I paid the same amount of cash for Cataclysm that I did WOTLK. I feel like Blizzard is sliding in the amount of content per expansion pack.

Just from doing a quick calculation of bosses created per each expansion. I have 50 bosses in WOTLK (2 years). I have 28 bosses in Cataclysm (1 year). This seems all fine and dandy, except for the fact that Deathwing is the last raid for this expansion pack. I feel like my money was not spent as well as it was in WOTLK. Mostly because I think we'll be dealing with Deathwing until at least mid-year 2012 for any new content. Wondering if this is a bi-product of greedy Activision.

I've also noticed that much of the content released doesn't fix real problems. Why do we not have cross-realm raid finder yet? (yes, people still like to do old content, firelands anyone?). Why is transmorg higher on the objective list for Blizzard to complete? Why do class fixes and balances take 6 months to implement? Just add them in as simple fixes (ex. 4.3.1a) instead of waiting for major content releases.

I think we're starting to see the active decline of progression raiding. As blizzard turns it attention towards more casual gamers, we can expect progression raiders to move on. I think the progression group is starting to wonder why we pay $60 for the game + $13.99 / month for not much support or content. We are paying over 2x the amount of the original game cost of the Original game during the course of a year. Wouldn't you expect to receive just as much in content? Get it together Blizzard. Start reacting faster to legitimate concerns.

[KaziOfTheSkies]

well...first off, Wotlk had ICC for 1 of those 2 years. So guess wotlk had way more content that way. On the other hand blizz promised to release xpacks more often right? So it really shouldnt be a suprise

Might as well extend that list of yours to more than raid bosses:

Hcs:
Wotlk got 4 new hcs with the patches, all of them on normal as well.
Cata have gotten 5 new so far, none with normal mode. 2 of them old raids. Also, 2 of the starting hcs was reshaped old dungeons (well done by blizz tbh, at least for the first part of cata before nerfs).

Daily quest hubs:
Wotlk started with Grizzly Hills (slightly pvp-oriented dailys), Scholazar, Sons of Hodir and Icecrown. Later Tournament added in 2 phases.
Cata started with Tol Barad (pvp area), deepholm and Twilight Highlands. Later Molten Front was added.

Raids:
Wotlk had 2 modes of each starter raid as well as Ulduar and Trial of the Crusader, that being 10 and 25 man mode. HC raid mode introduced with IceCrown Citadel.
Cata introduced shared lockout between 10 man and 25 man, both dropping same ilvl of gear. Looking for Raid came with Dragon Soul, (ultra)easy mode not sharing raidlock with normal and hc mode.

PvP:
Wotlk had nothing really new regarind pvp except new bg.
Cata introduced Rated Battlegrounds, nothing else except new bg.


Other things:
Wotlk added something big: Achievements. This letting people do old content as well as much other things only to gain more achievments and titles/mounts/pets.
Both Wotlk and Cata added a new proff, Inscription with Glyphs in wotlk and Archeology(secondary proff) with cata

[wariofan1]

Hard one, but gotta go with Cata.

Cata has 4 raids that are good and only 1 that is bad (DS)

Wotlk had, what? 1 rehashed extremely undertuned raid. 2 nice single encounters, Malygos actually having an awesome battle, 1 spectacular raid that is Ulduar, the worst raid in WoW's history (ToC) and a decent raid (Only Professor, Rotface, Sindra and LK were worth it imo).

Still, I feel nothing for the new raids in cata... The whole atmosphere of ICC, no matter how many times I did it, no matter how dull the encounters were, was what made me still play at the time, and it still makes me visit it here and there, mainly for transmog loot and last achis for drake though.

[Deleted]

Cata first tier and Ulduar from Wotlk are only bangable tiers.

ICC>Dragon Soul
Firelands>Naxx
All>ToC

[Deleted]

Vanilla was legendary fantasy.
TBC was Epic
WotLK was (literally) amazing - lorewise
Cataclysm Is mind blowingly advanced in terms of encounters and PvP is quicker than ever

I don't really see any problems with any of the expansions. Sure Cata has less content BUT it's far BETTER content, which is the important thing.

Can't wait to see Mists, sounds really rich in lore

Just my opinion ^^

[Deleted]

Number of Individual Bosses in TBC: Karazhan (11) + Zul'Aman (6) + TK (4) + SSC (6) + MH (5) + BT (9) + Sunwell (6) = 47
Number of Individual Bosses in WotLK: Naxxramas (15) + Ulduar (14) + ToC (5) + ICC (12) + Halion (1) = 47
Number of Individual Bosses in Cataclysm: First Tier (13) + Firelands (7) + Dragon Soul (8) = 28

Here... that is the thumb you are all sucking and the reason why I quit.

[wariofan1]

Number of Individual Bosses in TBC: Karazhan (11) + Zul'Aman (6) + TK (4) + SSC (6) + MH (5) + BT (9) + Sunwell (6) = 47
Number of Individual Bosses in WotLK: Naxxramas (15) + Ulduar (14) + ToC (5) + ICC (12) + Halion (1) = 47
Number of Individual Bosses in Cataclysm: First Tier (13) + Firelands (7) + Dragon Soul (8) = 28

Here... that is the thumb you are all sucking and the reason why I quit.

Quantity over quality, yeh?

The quality of raid encounters are greater than ever (as long as we don't mention DS), no bigger trash mobs like Marrowgar, and no absolutely fail encounters like the ones in ToC.

[Daetur]

I've enjoyed the Cata content more than the WotLK content overall, so I have no problem paying for better quality content. /shrug

Besides, we're also "paying" for the revamp to the old world they did, don't forget all of that content they added.

[Deleted]

You think by having 50% less bosses you have 50% more quality? And the quality vs quantity only works against WotLK and not TBC. Or do you challenge TBC?

For Cata they spread a potential 1 tier of 15 bosses around 2 tiers. That is some lazy development and money-hungry developers.

[Vaelyn]

So, being that I paid the same amount of cash for Cataclysm that I did WOTLK. I feel like Blizzard is sliding in the amount of content per expansion pack.

Just from doing a quick calculation of bosses created per each expansion. I have 50 bosses in WOTLK (2 years). I have 28 bosses in Cataclysm (1 year). This seems all fine and dandy, except for the fact that Deathwing is the last raid for this expansion pack. I feel like my money was not spent as well as it was in WOTLK. Mostly because I think we'll be dealing with Deathwing until at least mid-year 2012 for any new content. Wondering if this is a bi-product of greedy Activision.

I've also noticed that much of the content released doesn't fix real problems. Why do we not have cross-realm raid finder yet? (yes, people still like to do old content, firelands anyone?). Why is transmorg higher on the objective list for Blizzard to complete? Why do class fixes and balances take 6 months to implement? Just add them in as simple fixes (ex. 4.3.1a) instead of waiting for major content releases.

I think we're starting to see the active decline of progression raiding. As blizzard turns it attention towards more casual gamers, we can expect progression raiders to move on. I think the progression group is starting to wonder why we pay $60 for the game + $13.99 / month for not much support or content. We are paying over 2x the amount of the original game cost of the Original game during the course of a year. Wouldn't you expect to receive just as much in content? Get it together Blizzard. Start reacting faster to legitimate concerns.

I was just thinking about this the other day. Cataclysm itself had more content (4.0.1) than any patch before it. The updates to Azeroth as a whole were amazing. 3 raids you could choose from, plenty of H's, and the content was more than you knew what to do with. However, 4.1 was supposed to be FL, as well as add another heroic (the Abyssal Rift or something with Vashjir). 4.1 really only included 2 H's, which were just rehashed raids, with updated mechanics and the SAME gear that dropped in them previously, just updated iLevels. Don't get me wrong, I loved ZA/ZG, but for a content patch, it was a joke.

4.2 was pretty good. FL as a whole was great and the MF dailies were very grindy (but no more so than the Argent Tournament or Netherdrake rep stuff preceding it). No new H's though and Blizz announced that despite leaving the Neptulon story terribly "cliff-hanged," they didn't think it was worth the development hours.

Now with 4.3, we have DS as a raid and the HoT H's. These H's are exactly what we needed back in 4.2 as the gear from 353 to 378 is a huge gap for a reason. With no furth content being released for this expansion, I would say this expansion had the weakest content (from content patches) but the strongest representation on what was brought in on expansion release.

The only thing I really found terribly dissappointing with this expansion is comparing what we saw at Blizzcon to what we actually got. Blizzard cut out an absurd amount of content from what they originally presented. The game is great and I've really enjoyed it the last 6 months, but it makes me really not want to check out Blizzcon ever because when I look at all the cool MoP stuff announced this year, I wonder how much of it will actually make it to 5.0.1. They really do need to hire more Modelers though. Cataclysm had more recycled models than any expansion before it :-P I'm using mostly Classic and BC models for my transmogs... though there are a couple of gems from LK that I love. I think this expansion was awesome on UI / engine updates, but terrible for actual content. :-)

[Deleted]

not to mention that having just one zone per tier and less than 10 bosses per zone just makes the game seem that much less immersing and enthralling. It presents itself the sensation of the irreal.

Hell, make 2 zones with 4 bosses in it and I would be much happier than getting a zone of Dragonblight, a ship I have already sailed, the platform I have already killed Malygos at... plus the beginning of the Spine encounter is cheap as hell. I just click a dialogue box and get teleported to his back? This tier might just beat ToC in terms of cheapness.

[Daetur]

not to mention that having just one zone per tier and less than 10 bosses per zone just makes the game seem that much less immersing and enthralling. It presents itself the sensation of the irreal.

Hell, make 2 zones with 4 bosses in it and I would be much happier than getting a zone of Dragonblight, a ship I have already sailed, the platform I have already killed Malygos at... plus the beginning of the Spine encounter is cheap as hell. I just click a dialogue box and get teleported to his back? This tier might just beat ToC in terms of cheapness.

Sounds like a personal problem. I actually find Dragon Soul very immersive, and I love the cutscenes before and after Spine.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but I think you're confusing your own personal opinion and tastes with fact.

[Crashdummy]

Problem is not only the amount of bosses, actually that's the smallest problem.

The real problem is that Ulduar alone beats all the Cataclysm raiding experience.

Blizzard did every single mistake they could in this expansion, starting with Heroic dungeon difficulty and raid shared lockout.

I think they, as well as many of us, are just hoping this expansion to end so they can forget about it.

[Deleted]

Problem is not only the amount of bosses, actually that's the smallest problem.

The real problem is that Ulduar alone beats all the Cataclysm raiding experience.

Blizzard did every single mistake they could in this expansion, starting with Heroic dungeon difficulty and raid shared lockout.

I think they, as well as many of us, are just hoping this expansion to end so they can forget about it.

Actually I find the first tier of Cataclysm to really be almost on par with Ulduar. And Ulduar had many filler bosses like Razorscale, Ignis and Auriaya/Kologarn that did not really provide any challenge whatsoever.

[Crashdummy]

Actually I find the first tier of Cataclysm to really be almost on par with Ulduar. And Ulduar had many filler bosses like Razorscale, Ignis and Auriaya/Kologarn that did not really provide any challenge whatsoever.

Not even close.

And you may call Razorscale or Korogarn a "filler" boss but Ignis? Did you even tried before he was nerfed?

First tier of cataclysm was crap. Firelands was a little better but had the problem of being dull because Blizzard had no imagination and did the whole orange filling zone boring, but first tier? really? I would put first tier of Cata a little above ToGC, and below every single content of WoW that is not ToGC.

I cant comment on DS yet, too soon to tell.

No, first tier of Cataclysm sucks, as well as the rest of the expansion.

[Linkedblade]

You can't count the number of bosses for each expansion. Why? Because the difficulty levels are variable.
In Classic and Burning Crusade the bosses were as is. There was only one way to get into those raids and to do that you had to attune yourself. Only the most dedicated and skilled players got into raids.
With Wrath of the Lich king, the bar was lowered. There was only one real boss you had to be attuned for and that was Malygos, and only one person needed the key. Afterwards entering raids was as easy as walking in. Hard modes were variable on how to activate them, from Hodir's dps race to Flame Leviathan's towers. On top of that 10man and 25man were considered separate difficulties.
Then in Cataclysm we have 10man and 25man on the same difficulty (or so Blizzard says). We have hard modes activated by raid UI. And to top it all off we finish the expansion with an difficulty below normal.

You just can't compare the amount of bosses, in that case Classic (Vanilla) would take the lead by far. You can't compare numerical values of Hard modes because they are all activated differently in one expansion, and non existent in another.

I don't understand how you can compare about numbers of bosses or quality of the expansion, when you yourself are on an internet forum complaining about the quality of the game you are not playing!

[Gunslinger]

I've enjoyed the Cata content more than the WotLK content overall, so I have no problem paying for better quality content. /shrug

Besides, we're also "paying" for the revamp to the old world they did, don't forget all of that content they added.

Absolutely nothing personal, but how can you say Cata had better quality, when WotLK had Ulduar&ICC which are quite honestly far above the rest. I'm not saying that everything in Cata is bad however what good quality raid encounters exist are buried under a pile of simple and unimaginative encounters as well as a high number of "revamps".

Not to mention the new 5man dungeons in Cata are a complete jokes compared to ICC 5mans. Anyways even compared with TBC, this expansion is nowhere near that level of quality.

[Deleted]

Not even close.

And you may call Razorscale or Korogarn a "filler" boss but Ignis? Did you even tried before he was nerfed?

First tier of cataclysm was crap. Firelands was a little better but had the problem of being dull because Blizzard had no imagination and did the whole orange filling zone boring, but first tier? really? I would put first tier of Cata a little above ToGC, and below every single content of WoW that is not ToGC.

I cant comment on DS yet, too soon to tell.

No, first tier of Cataclysm sucks, as well as the rest of the expansion.

then you probably did not experience it first hand. First tier of Cataclysm was definitely very challenging and versatile. Heroic modes vastly differed from normal modes and teleported me to a realm of their own. On the other hand, the only fights I enjoyed in Ulduar, were FL, XT, Steelbreaker, Hodir, Thorim, Freya, Mimiron, Algalon and General Vezax. As a stand-alone zone perhaps Ulduar would win, but the only true hard fights there were Mimiron and Yogg (Algalon had a gating system and he was actually really easy).

[Alcomo]

Not even close.

And you may call Razorscale or Korogarn a "filler" boss but Ignis? Did you even tried before he was nerfed?

First tier of cataclysm was crap. Firelands was a little better but had the problem of being dull because Blizzard had no imagination and did the whole orange filling zone boring, but first tier? really? I would put first tier of Cata a little above ToGC, and below every single content of WoW that is not ToGC.

I cant comment on DS yet, too soon to tell.

No, first tier of Cataclysm sucks, as well as the rest of the expansion.

I agree and also add that I found WotLK to have a lot more inventive and all around fun end game beyond raiding. The Argent Tournament was unique whether or not certain people enjoyed it and it seemed blizz actually took the time to make it work. Tol Barad and Firelands are just random 'kill this, collect that' crap quests repeated over and over. Wintergrasp makes Tol Barad look like crap also imo. I loved the epic battles of it. Now unless your on a server with equal horde vs alli your sol. I must have qued up about 10 times for Tol Barad on Illidan without getting in before I just gave up and said fuck it. Being able to run a 25 mans with your guild, then when your bored later in the week you could start up a 10 man and have some fun was great. Now we are stuck with this shared lockout shit which just takes away more from the endgame. You raid with your guild and then you can't even do a 10 man(or 25 man if your in a 10 man guild) after to have something to occupy the rest of your time online. And personally I didn't feel that same epic feeling as when I first walked into Uld or ICC as I did walking in BoT or Firelands. Uld and Icc included both quality and quantity which is how it should be for a game of WoW's magnitude. Not some slapped together, boring as hell rock and lava leve with all the bosses cramped in together. Don't get me wrong, some of the fights were unique and enjoyable but they could have at least put a bit more touch into the layouts to actually give that epic feeling again.

[Crashdummy]

then you probably did not experience it first hand. First tier of Cataclysm was definitely very challenging and versatile. Heroic modes vastly differed from normal modes and teleported me to a realm of their own. On the other hand, the only fights I enjoyed in Ulduar, were FL, XT, Steelbreaker, Hodir, Thorim, Freya, Mimiron, Algalon and General Vezax. As a stand-alone zone perhaps Ulduar would win, but the only true hard fights there were Mimiron and Yogg (Algalon had a gating system and he was actually really easy).

I did experience it first hand.

And nowhere in any of my posts i talked about difficulty. Maybe you should re read them.