[Disc] glyph of penance?

[Demonidze]

Been checking elitistjerks for any usefull info about disc priests... and then I saw something wierd, on the tank healing spec its been said I should use glyph of pw:b, pw:s and penance... now my question is why penance? the only purpose for it right now, its when tanks switch to get grace stacks quickly. gheal is better in any way then penance.

Iam running right now with glyph of pw:b pw:s and poh. several bosses at DS (mostly heroic) require in between tank heals to throw some raid heals as the raid damage sometimes is insane and help needed. how can glyph of penance be superior to glyph of poh ?? :S

[casserole]

Been checking elitistjerks for any usefull info about disc priests... and then I saw something wierd, on the tank healing spec its been said I should use glyph of pw:b, pw:s and penance... now my question is why penance? the only purpose for it right now, its when tanks switch to get grace stacks quickly. gheal is better in any way then penance.

Iam running right now with glyph of pw:b pw:s and poh. several bosses at DS (mostly heroic) require in between tank heals to throw some raid heals as the raid damage sometimes is insane and help needed. how can glyph of penance be superior to glyph of poh ?? :S

It depends on your healer setup. (10 man vs 25 mans, what other healers you're running is, what sort of encounter it is).

If you do not use Penance on CD, then the glyph is an absolute waste. However, if you are have been assigned to do any tank healing, this is a must have glyph.

To answer your question about why use penance instead of Gheal? It is more mana efficient and can "save" a target due to its quick ticks. Otherwise yes, GHeal has a higher HPS than Penance.

I personally do not use PW:B, as the purpose of barrier is to save lives rather than ramping up heals. But again, it depends on the situation.

[tomehere]

Im using penance on cooldown, so I feel like the glyph is an obvious choice (for me).

I wasn't seeing a significant gain with the prayer of healing glyph. Even though I do use that spell a lot, a lot of the time the hot ends up as overhealing.

[kakle]

the only fight in DS that I've found it useful (note i dont tank heal that much and this is 25m) is spine, I tank heal this fight because paladins can deal with searing plasma better than I can, that being said tanks barely get hit so i try to help heal the searing plasma between healing tanks and the shorter penance helps alot when swapping to a new plasma target.

[Demonidze]

It depends on your healer setup. (10 man vs 25 mans, what other healers you're running is, what sort of encounter it is).

If you do not use Penance on CD, then the glyph is an absolute waste. However, if you are have been assigned to do any tank healing, this is a must have glyph.

To answer your question about why use penance instead of Gheal? It is more mana efficient and can "save" a target due to its quick ticks. Otherwise yes, GHeal has a higher HPS than Penance.

I personally do not use PW:B, as the purpose of barrier is to save lives rather than ramping up heals. But again, it depends on the situation.

Iam tank healing, using gheal most of the time, and iam not even close to getting out of mana. pw:b glyph is good, at fights like ultraxion or madness of dw the extra healing while its active is really good.

penance its just more mana effecient then gheal... and thats it, it doesnt proc strength of soul, it heals less then gheal, and most important gheal has higher crit chance and thats more awesome divine aegis shields.

edit: btw, Iam healing 25m.

[Deleted]

I dropped the penance glyph for PW:B last week and can't really tell any difference. The Barrier glyph is actually kind of a big deal considering how much stacking up and AoE healing you do in this tier.

[Deleted]

Barrier is less usefull on Morchok normal (hm its usefull due to double stomp) and gunship 2.0.
Rest is basicly Barrier glyph friendly, PoH glyph is good on Morchok normal and gunship 2.0.
Normal Morchok u dont need to heal up the stacking members right away due to stomps having a big enough gap to let poh tick and save mana and tank heal while the other healer slowly heal them up as well (10man).

Gunship after the stacking in phase1 people run out barrier fast to get a sapper/small blast reducing barriers glyph efficiency.
Better to have PoH there as the Thicks keeps running even when they move out.

Rest of the AoE Stacking fights PoH and Barrier are good imo, so that leaves a 3rd glyph open to switch around. Penance or PW:S thats up to u, i kinda use Penance over PW:S as im not bubbling everyone, only a fast save on a raid member +penance (30k bubbles self-buffed) and pw:s on the tank as im tank healiing in AA/A spec that makes Penance even more efficient mana wise and why i prefer the Penance Glyph over PW:S atm.

Majority of the fights im running with Barrier/PoH/Penance.
2 Fights PoH/Penance/PW:S as im not on HM's yet.
1 fight im switching Smite glyph for Holy Nova (4th boss) as Running along with the chainlightning or frost phase and Holynova for the heals is just nice

[Deleted]

PWS/PWB/PoH glyph is what I run with.

[Demonidze]

I see, I think ill stick to pw:s pw:b and poh glyphs then. Penance is just a matter of play style.

[Deleted]

Just for your information penance doesn't actually heal less then greater heal in my experience it's actually equal to it or sometimes better since you stand a chance of having it crit up to 3 times, like a Gheal non crit is around 30k and crit is 60k but penance heals 1 tick for around 10k, 3 tick total 30k so if it crits even once then it's worth more healing + DA then a non crit Gheal and if it crits 3 in a row then it's about equal to a crit Gheal.

I generally run penance / shield / PoH glyphs, I don't find the barrier one that useful since you only really get to use it once or twice per fight and when it is being used it's mainly for reducing damage so you don't need to heal much afterwards well for most situations, on fights like ultra and spine where you can stack for the duration of barrier it would be useful but on other fights people will want to move quickly to avoid abilities that are bad if stacked.

[Demonidze]

Penance on allready 3 stack graced target heals for 10k or 20k~ crit. gheal heals for 30-37k and 70-80k crit (Iam running with burning shadowspirit meta) and when crits its also a 35k absorb shield. and gheal have better crit chance, due to talents.

but really main reason why I just dont spam it each time its off cd is that its really good when offtank taunting to give him 3 very fast stacks of grace quick as possible. then next gheal on off tank will heal for full amount, and if I didnt had penance ready when taunting happen my gheals would just heal for 50k crits.. really low. if you look at it that way, and then also sum up the fact that gheal is simply better output then penance you would come to the same conclusion that its not worth really just spam it each time its off cd.

but then again.. comes that matter of play style .. I have alot of spirit (2.5k) and Ive completed my t13 p4, so I have enough mana regen to support that spam gheal playstyle, might be not true for some other disc priests

[zakaluka]

hm, thought I replied here, but i guess I just closed out the tab??

Penance has both higher HPM and HPCT than gheal. It also benefits from, but does not consume BT. All very good reasons to spam penance on cd, but there is also a solid argument for saving penance until specific times.
If you're spamming penance on CD, the glyph translates into about a 2% overall HPS boost.
I personally believe disc should always carry PoH glyph no matter what, as well as PW:S. These both are worth well more than 4% each (depending on your healing behavior).

That leaves you the question: 2% personal HPS, or a burst to raidhealing when you PW:B? Either could be the correct choice, so for 3rd primary you can pick up Penance or PW:B.

In 10 man, or if you're a designated tank healer, it MIGHT be worth trading out PW:B's +10% healing for slightly more penance. Depends on the encounter, and whether there are any mechanics your healing team has trouble outhealing. In 25 man, Barrier is usually the obvious choice.

[Deleted]

I agree with Zakaluka. PW:S and PoH glyphs are must have. I used to use Penance glyph, swapping to PW:B sometimes if the encounter asked for it. But now I always use PW:B and, sometimes, I come back to Penance Glyph. There are lots of encounters in DS where the stacked raid receives massive damage, like ultraxion, Yor'sahj, Zon'ozz, FoDW... making PW:B glyph more valuable imho.

[Soulstrike]

huh... i use renew,POH and PW:S for the glyphs cause i like using renew while moving cause disc cant do anything healing while moving, i said healing not shielding :P (fights like blackhorn comes to mind)

[HDPriest]

huh... i use renew,POH and PW:S for the glyphs cause i like using renew while moving cause disc cant do anything healing while moving, i said healing not shielding :P (fights like blackhorn comes to mind)

Other than PoM and PW:S, there's not much we can do while moving which really blows sometimes. But even with the glyph, is Renew worth casting as Disc? It feels really weak to me without the Holy talents to back it up. I'm still sad we never got the Penance while moving that was hinted at before Cata.

[Soulstrike]

Other than PoM and PW:S, there's not much we can do while moving which really blows sometimes. But even with the glyph, is Renew worth casting as Disc? It feels really weak to me without the Holy talents to back it up. I'm still sad we never got the Penance while moving that was hinted at before Cata.

i think renew was stated that it does the most HPM or something i dunno priest is just my alt :P(but i do love playing on my priest XD)

[Deleted]

Honestly just stack up on dusts of disappearance and reglyph depending what's best for each fight, your healing assignments etc etc

[zakaluka]

Renew has horrible HPM for disc, even glyphed ><. PW:S without a rapture is better.

My renew in Holy (specced atm) - Divine touch 1758, Renew 4080. That's 22158 healing without any raidbuffs. 15% chakra:sanc, 10% for spec, another 10% for glyph, totaling 135% base. My last sim showed Holy's Renew at 10 HPM with all raidbuffs.

My disc spec renew ticks for 2788. If you get the 10% bonus from glyph, it goes to 3067. 5 ticks of that is worth 15338. 10 HPM * (15338 / 22158) -> Disc's raidbuffed renew should be worth about 6.9 HPM with renew glyph.

What's PW:S? From a log, Dosia (my counterpart) gets 35011 + 16840 per shield (crit averaged in). So PW:S hpm is 51851 / 6300 = 8.2 HPM.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

As I only raid 10m, I take Glyph of Penance over the barrier Glyph.
the reason: Penance is a great spell. For anybody who doesnt know: Penance does slightly more HPS, more better HPM, and does the Healing earlier.(a third even instant) It just plain better.
I just checked on live, unbuffed(with Grace): GH: 30k heal for 5.5k, in 2.11 sec, whilst Penance: 3*9k, for 2.9k mana, in 1.69sec.
(The only other thing to condier is ToT if specced, but dunno how to value that) And Penance has the same critchance as GH, some other poster said that GHs critchance is higher, but couldnt find anything to support that thesis. (renewd hope works on penance aswell)

@zaluka: you're not factoring in some important stuff. Nobody said you should blanket Renews as soon as someone does dmg, because in such an "unbuffed" situation, renew IS crap. (unless you have to move, target has Weakend Soul, and ProM is on CD)
But used on the tank, you must factor in the 24% Grace. that brings its power nearly up to a Holys renew. (Disc without glyph/talents: 3.7k ticks, Holy with glpyh/talents+chakra: 4.1k) And if you use Renew after a PWS, you get extra haste, leading up to a 6th tick!
that results in 6*3.7k =22.2k, which is more than 5*4.1k = 20.5k. (even without Grace, the 6th tick from BT evens out alot)
And if you think about it, renewing the Tank after a PWS makes perfect sense, especially when the tank is at full health and you shield him, you gain a short timeframe where the tank takes no dmg, so go and do premtive healing with a hot. It also doesnt consume Borrowed time!

[Deleted]

Am 3/8 HC and I still don't get why would anyone use glyph of pw:B.