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  1. #1

    Holy Trinity: Arena Net gets it

    I felt this deserved it's own topic.. this quote is just amazing. I snagged this from the reddit AMA event, you should go read it if you haven't had the chance (I can't post links).

    Quote Originally Posted by randomdude
    Are you worried that there will be a definitively accepted meta group of professions rendering the no-trinity system effectively useless?
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaNet
    No. Are you?
    The combat just isn't built that way. I know we say it so often, it gets annoying, but honestly learning to play your build is so much more important than your actual build.
    The lack of trinity comes from forcing flexibility in combat. Trinity doesn't promote team play it forces team dependencies. That is something we really wanted to avoid, and so people will say we got rid of it to get rid of the LFG stuff, but the real reason is because we want people to play TOGETHER, not next to each other...
    Good riddance to holy shitity I say. Can't wait to play however I want with whoever I want, whenever the fuck I want. I can't count how many times I've needed a tank/heals and god forbid motherfucking both of those at once, such a pain.. I would always get met with trolls or people offering it as a service and asking ridiculous amounts of gold.

    It got to the point where I actually bit the bullet and just rolled a tank, and not having as much fun. I think that's bullshit.

    Is anyone actually OPPOSED to the holy trinity being removed? I can't even imagine who would be, since anyone can tank, heal, and dps.

    Swearing occasionally is fine and all, but keep it within reason. -Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2011-12-19 at 11:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by I like pie View Post
    Is anyone actually OPPOSED to the holy trinity being removed? I can't even imagine who would be, since anyone can tank, heal, and dps.
    I for one am extremely happy that it will not exist (Not exactly being removed, as it was never in GW2). After playing WoW for 6 years and remembering how long it took to find a group pre-dungeon finder and then how when it was implemented it destroyed the community... I am excited to see how it will work. It will definitely be a bizarre feeling, that's for sure, having to rely on myself for once instead of either a tank or healer to save my ass (unless I'm playing one of those roles).

    Probably most excited about the lack of trinity because of the new level of team work that it will bring, instead of the repetitive nonsense we have today in WoW: Tank runs in, hits mob, DPS attacks mobs, healer heals tank (in a perfect scenario that is). Going to take a while to get out of that!

  3. #3
    Warchief Cherrysoul's Avatar
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    I read that the day it came out, and HELL YEAH! Is pretty much what i said out loud... Community, Playing together, and getting to know people (good/bad/funny etc) is what it's all about

  4. #4
    Wowza, lots of unneeded profanity in the OP.

    Is anyone actually OPPOSED to the holy trinity being removed? I can't even imagine who would be, since anyone can tank, heal, and dps.
    I am not opposed to it's removal. Other MMOs didn't have a holy trinity either and did just fine.

    The existence of a holy trinity is merely a design choice. Not inherently better or worse than any other.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster
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    I for one cant wait to try it, me and friends, have decided, that we will (if all get into beta) just go in blind and find out for are selfs how it plays, the idea is if we dont get into beta, we will still try to just go in as blind as possible just to see what happens, i think its woth it. This will be strange but damn i cannot wait.

  6. #6
    Lots of people oppose the "removal" of the holy trinity. Based on personal experience, they mainly all claim to be healers in games like WOW. They say GW2 has no place for them since it has no healers. And they're calling in their MMO-life is to be a healer and nothing else.

    I'm surprised you haven't encountered these people yet, but you will soon!

    I don't understand how some people can reduce their enjoyment of video-games down to such a specific and niche role... but apparently it happens.

  7. #7
    I think it'll make for amazing gameplay and team mechanics, but I think we'll also get a lot of people whining about not getting exactly what they wanted when they switched over from WoW in the first couple months after release.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    Lots of people oppose the "removal" of the holy trinity. Based on personal experience, they mainly all claim to be healers in games like WOW. They say GW2 has no place for them since it has no healers. And they're calling in their MMO-life is to be a healer and nothing else.

    I'm surprised you haven't encountered these people yet, but you will soon!

    I don't understand how some people can reduce their enjoyment of video-games down to such a specific and niche role... but apparently it happens.
    Is it really that different from a game like Skyrim which gives players a lot of playstyle options but some gravitate more toward mage, warrior or thief/assassin archetypes?

    People sometimes find the specificity of their role engaging. /Shrug

    (p.s. im not a healer. hate healing. screw it! drink a pot!)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Is it really that different from a game like Skyrim which gives players a lot of playstyle options but some gravitate more toward mage, warrior or thief/assassin archetypes?

    People sometimes find the specificity of their role engaging. /Shrug

    (p.s. im not a healer. hate healing. screw it! drink a pot!)
    Well the thing is, once they realize they CAN heal and do SUPPORT they're still not happy. Often the discovery that you can't even target your allies is quite a shocker for them.

    When probed and asked, they say they NEVER wanna do any DPS, not even accidentally, and really, they just wanna play whack-a-mole and not have to worry about anything else (like many healers in WOW).

    This is obviously a generalization based on personal experience... but 8 of the 10 people I've spoken to who said they did NOT wanna play GW2 were healers who didn't wanna do anything but whack-a-mole. That's the only thing they found fun about being a healer in WOW. (Blows my mind... but people are all different I suppose.)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    Lots of people oppose the "removal" of the holy trinity. Based on personal experience, they mainly all claim to be healers in games like WOW. They say GW2 has no place for them since it has no healers. And they're calling in their MMO-life is to be a healer and nothing else.
    Chuckle and I thought my lack of a life was bad. It would really blow to not only have no life but to be cursed to be a nolife healer :P Seriously though I've tanked healed and DPS'd in various MMO's and I'm thrilled to see the trinity go. In wow I've always played a druid as my main and I loved the adaptability of feral. I could be tanking 1 minute, sneak a BR between boss swings on a downed ally, Pop TRanq during a transition and be DPSing in cat while the other tank had his turn at the boss all in 1 fight. I actually hate how they are splitting feral into bear and cat trees in MOP and see it as one more nail in the wow coffin. On the other hand GW2's combat sounds perfect for me, moving fluidly between damage control and support depending on the situation.

    Who is John Galt?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    Well the thing is, once they realize they CAN heal and do SUPPORT they're still not happy. Often the discovery that you can't even target your allies is quite a shocker for them.

    When probed and asked, they say they NEVER wanna do any DPS, not even accidentally, and really, they just wanna play whack-a-mole and not have to worry about anything else (like many healers in WOW).

    This is obviously a generalization based on personal experience... but 8 of the 10 people I've spoken to who said they did NOT wanna play GW2 were healers who didn't wanna do anything but whack-a-mole. That's the only thing they found fun about being a healer in WOW. (Blows my mind... but people are all different I suppose.)
    Yea I don't share the same um, zeal, for healing as some. Though I def. understand their (healers) desire to fill a particular niche. Typically, I play tanky type and love that role when ever possible. Doesn't bother me too much the lack of tanks in GW2, but tanking is definitely a role I enjoy most of all 99% of the time.

    I think the true essence of tanking/healing is in supporting your group. It just might take people having hands on experience with GW2 to realize that they are still supporting/helping their team even if the tag Tank or Healer isn't stamped on their profession.

    We will see I guess.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    Well the thing is, once they realize they CAN heal and do SUPPORT they're still not happy. Often the discovery that you can't even target your allies is quite a shocker for them.

    When probed and asked, they say they NEVER wanna do any DPS, not even accidentally, and really, they just wanna play whack-a-mole and not have to worry about anything else (like many healers in WOW).

    This is obviously a generalization based on personal experience... but 8 of the 10 people I've spoken to who said they did NOT wanna play GW2 were healers who didn't wanna do anything but whack-a-mole. That's the only thing they found fun about being a healer in WOW. (Blows my mind... but people are all different I suppose.)
    I can make sweeping generalizations too, like people only want to dps so they can have no responsibility and just cruise control while watching tv. And I would be just as wrong as you while I do it. People like what they like, and if you make a game that ignores 2/5ths of your target audience and say things like 'well, you can still support people' you better make the 3/5ths you are catering for extremely happy or you will end with problems.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    Lots of people oppose the "removal" of the holy trinity. Based on personal experience, they mainly all claim to be healers in games like WOW. They say GW2 has no place for them since it has no healers. And they're calling in their MMO-life is to be a healer and nothing else.

    I'm surprised you haven't encountered these people yet, but you will soon!

    I don't understand how some people can reduce their enjoyment of video-games down to such a specific and niche role... but apparently it happens.
    Personally i was a healer in wow.. and i hated it, i hated playing whack-a-mole while everyone else got to play the game... Only reason i stuck with being a healer was cause i was able to 1) get groups 2) i liked supporting my teammates 3) Holding everyones life in your hands was a fairly good feeling...

    However, once i quit wow and went to games with actual support clases IE: Archon and Dominator in Rift, or Mesmer in GW1 i dropped healing soooooo fast...

    I am not sad at all to see healing, and glorified dpsing aka tanking, to be missing from the game!

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 05:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    I can make sweeping generalizations too, like people only want to dps so they can have no responsibility and just cruise control while watching tv. And I would be just as wrong as you while I do it. People like what they like, and if you make a game that ignores 2/5ths of your target audience and say things like 'well, you can still support people' you better make the 3/5ths you are catering for extremely happy or you will end with problems.
    If you want to support your allies, or hinder your enemies, then use support/control skills respectively. If you want to faceroll your way to victory, you may want to NOT play GW2 cause it likely wont happen..

    PS: They're not making the game for only 3/5th of the players, most healers i've talked to don't want to heal cause they enjoy the MECHANIC of healing, they like to heal cause they either A) Like being the strongest person in the group, or B) Like supporting their allies.
    Last edited by Durzlla; 2011-12-19 at 11:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Just because this is the internet doesn't mean that you should toss profanity around when ever you want if you want to be taken seriously.

    OT: I love that Anet is removing the Holy Trinity. It will raise the skill gap of all players across the board. It will allow us players to -finally- play a class for its feel rather than role.

  15. #15
    The Patient Silza's Avatar
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    I really don't know where this goofy "whack-a-mole" came from. Someone mentioned it somewhere and all of a sudden "oh yes, healing is ---whack-a-mole---"!!! Healing to me is taking responsibilty. Always reacting to situations differently every time you are playing with others. Decisions which need to be made quick and in a heartbeat or else you'll lose. Healing is not just standing there beating on one mob that stands there for about 5-10 Minutes and do your same rotation over and over again (raid wise that is). I have tried playing a DPS class and had a hard time not falling asleep.

    In PvP it is even harder to be a good healer since you will most likely be target no. 1. You have to look out for others, look out for yourself and look out for enemies and be a very situational player. Seen so many people failing in playing a healer well, both in PvP and PvE....to many times. I understand if people don't like that kind of playstile, that's fine. Different people, different opinions. But don't call it "whack-a-mole"...cause it's not.

    BUT! I don't mind not having the so called "holy trinity" in GW2. I was kind of disappointed at first when I heard there won't be any healing classes but the further I looked into the game the more I was thinking that everything just fits perfectly together and it would be a new challenge to play that way. And yes I agree it will probably advance team play a lot more since you don't have to rely on one person but everyone in your group!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Silza View Post
    I really don't know where this goofy "whack-a-mole" came from. Someone mentioned it somewhere and all of a sudden "oh yes, healing is ---whack-a-mole---"!!! Healing to me is taking responsibilty. Always reacting to situations differently every time you are playing with others. Decisions which need to be made quick and in a heartbeat or else you'll lose. Healing is not just standing there beating on one mob that stands there for about 5-10 Minutes and do your same rotation over and over again (raid wise that is). I have tried playing a DPS class and had a hard time not falling asleep.
    Whack-a-mole came from DPS classes who need to put down any other role because all they do is spam buttons on a boss and not paying attention and need to make themselves feel big about it.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Blood Crusade's Avatar
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    I'm not opposed at all. In fact it's the primary reason I want to give this game a try. What the OP mentioned about being able to start groups/participate in groups due to not being a certain specific role has always bugged me. No more waiting 30 minutes for a tank, totally down for some of that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Crusade View Post
    No more waiting 30 minutes for a tank, totally down for some of that.
    As much as I love the fact that there are basically no group requirements like the traditional trinity, part of me is sad. I almost always play a tank/healer so I would always get groups almost instantly or have people message me to see if I wanted to do a dungeon.

  19. #19
    The "whack-a-mole" healing tag comes from addons like Healbot, Vuhdo and Gridclique. Where healer's essentially only needed to pay attention to the interface / their feet. Very few other games have that though.

    Typically a case of Warcraft experience being the only or primary MMO for many. So they define all MMOs by those mechanics and all similar mechanics by that singular game. At least in a general sense.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2011-12-20 at 12:43 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    As much as I love the fact that there are basically no group requirements like the traditional trinity, part of me is sad. I almost always play a tank/healer so I would always get groups almost instantly or have people message me to see if I wanted to do a dungeon.
    Being a tank in WoW, I completely understand the sentiment, but it's pretty much akin to being OP, and complaining that you're going to be nerfed. Yeah it sucks, but it's better for everyone on the whole ^^

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