Page 11 of 27 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
21
... LastLast
  1. #201
    It's funny how the definition of a raid has changed. Now a raid means an instanced event with a fixed amount of people. But some might remember the awesome raids in Dark Age of Camelot where you could have over 100 players participating (not that they needed that many people).

    A raid requires lots of people. If you can't make it, get more people.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    fixed. :cheeky:

    :P
    /shoo

    10chars.

  3. #203
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by SPeedy26 View Post
    well true... but it's built to feel like one to give you the taste of team work and what not. I reminds me of FFX when your first bossish guy is actually just a goon your able to fight later. :P did they say all elite require 10 ppl I was lead to believe it would shift depending on Elite events (like 5 at X, while 10 at Y) yeah but maybe I should have been more clearer sry :P
    Oh totally, I love how the guys that aren't even "elite" are epic feeling! And so far all elite events require at least 10 people, however they may make some events that require like 5 or more, but they really dot need to due to dungeons!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by sacrypheyes View Post
    i'm aware there should be elite zones (thus elite DEs hopefully) thanks for taking me for some kind of tard here.

    what i'm wishing for is sort of the evolution of instanced elite missions like those in GW1, cause yeah outdoor elite DEs can be great (i sure hope they are) but there are times you just want to play with a bunch of friends while being sure there won't be anyone to come and just ruin the mood by whatever mean they have, and elite missions were great for that in GW1, not to mention they were some of the most difficult content to clear. in the end, what i'd be expecting might be some sort of mix between exploration mode (for the challenge and difficulty + random DEs + instance) and elite DEs (scalability with the number of players).

    and just in case some other dude would bring up the treadmill crap again, the said GW1 elite missions didn't have the best gear ever (not for all classes/builds that is) but people still did them for trophies (green weapon "collection", hero armor and the such).
    The evolved elite mission are the explorable 5 man zones and I understand that you want their to be a big group dungeon so you don't have to leave anyone behind but that is the exact purpose of the DE's,I know you don't want other ppl to ruin your groups run (offtopic: I feel the same way of ppl ruining my Jedi knight's story in SWTOR) but that's why a player's lv is brought down, that's way there's not a "if suzy standsinfire dies all other players die with her mechanic",If you don't like the idea of other ppl you can imagine them as a bunch of random npc's like in the Razorscale encounter in wow or the npc's in one of GW's many Missions (such as D'Alessio Seaboard, or Fort Ranik). hell all that's missing is a way to add more then 5 ppl to your party in open world content so I don't have to spam guild chat with my random rantings while I'm murdering dragons with half the guild and random ppl from the friends list. ^^

    P.S. how did what I said assume you for a tard? sry btw
    P.S.S I can see in a future expansion a 5 man dungeon that could max itself to 10 ppl but adds elite npcs or match makes another human group group to 5 man groups like in the Unwaking Waters mission
    P.S.S.S I have no idea what PS means :P (could someone enlighten a noob like me. ty ^^)
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2011-12-24 at 12:08 AM.

  5. #205
    p.s. stands for post-script.

    also gw2 will be perfectly fine without raids. see, i'm on topic! pro.

  6. #206
    Why would a game that is striving for innovation in a particular genre want to incorporate anything that is currently considered a norm within that genre?
    Originally Posted by Tigole
    I'm not so sure endgame players would like the face of the game if everyone had instant access to all of the content. There is something to be said for progression and the sense of accomplishment. Don't get me wrong, we have to be careful not to create a brick wall for new people, but I think there is a balance to be struck here.

  7. #207
    Stood in the Fire Vlad Morbius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by RumlyD View Post
    Why would a game that is striving for innovation in a particular genre want to incorporate anything that is currently considered a norm within that genre?
    Totally concur. I am pleased to see both innovation and the rebirth of the importance of the individual even within group play. Raids in my opinion stretched thin any importance to an individual's participation. How did you really know the one heal you landed was the game changer, the one blow, the one spell???? You don't truthfully but it is a disguised cooperation where all are made to feel like they equally accomplished a task all the while one individual gets the power to dole out the rewards. GW2 allows you to take on all roles in a setting that has no clear definition of when, how, who or where you need to apply the vast array of skills you have and this is the beauty of the system and why this game does not need mass or masked cooperative things like raids.

  8. #208
    Mechagnome Shadowviper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    589
    Personally to me anyway, I don't mind any "WoW definition of Raids". I believe ArentNet know what they are doing. I'd rather Elite DE than Instanced Raids. Imagine walking to the DE with 10 of your good friends. Announce in Chat about taking down this huge boss thingy. It goes from a group of 10 to a group of 50. The Boss gets more powerful and incredibly more angry. You don't know what hes gonna do now since it is 50 people instead of a measly 10 or 25. I myself feel that it is more epic for a fight that can change at anytime by the amount of people there instead of a Standard "WoW Raid" Boss.
    Doctor Octopus : 80 Asura Warrior
    Captain McNuggets : 80 Human Mesmer
    Professor McNuggets : 36 Asura Engineer
    General McNuggets: 11 Sylvari Thief

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by RumlyD View Post
    Why would a game that is striving for innovation in a particular genre want to incorporate anything that is currently considered a norm within that genre?
    yet they still have (instanced) dungeons, yet there will still be quests (even revamped as DEs, they're still quests if ), etc.

    no one ever said they had to copy paste the current raid concept, rather i'd be curious to see what (-instanced-) raids could look like with what GW2 is bringing already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Morbius View Post
    How did you really know the one heal you landed was the game changer, the one blow, the one spell???? You don't truthfully but it is a disguised cooperation where all are made to feel like they equally accomplished a task all the while one individual gets the power to dole out the rewards.
    that ain't going to change in GW2.
    Last edited by sacrypheyes; 2011-12-24 at 08:02 PM.

  10. #210
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    683
    I was originally going to say something about you and your posts, because i noticed a lot of your posts are WoW based questions for GW2. "Recount, addons, raids", etc. But it's good to see that you don't just want GW2 to be a WoW clone. Raiding IMO isn't needed in GW2. Neither are addons or anything related to Gearscore or recount or any damage or gear meter.

  11. #211
    Didn't they say they kept 5 mans because anymore is too much chaos? Since the game is about watching what's on screen (actions rather than UI), too many people would result in too many spells. Likewise, I think they also stated that having say 10 mans would make 5 mans feel lesser, and thus the more important content would be 10 mans in the eyes of others.

  12. #212
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    683
    They said max party size will be from the start, and will forever remain, 5. You don't need groups of 100 people to kill that big dragon who wants to eat your soul. You and everyone else form impromptu parties and will be able to kill things that require more people without actually grouping up. The 5 man cap on party size is so that people can have fun together in small groups and to run dungeons.

    Since players will share EXP and loot for shared kills, regardless of being in the same party or not, we don't need large parties to kill things. What this does is create a social aspect where players actually help each other out because they will be rewarded for doing so, regardless of being in that players party or not.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-27 at 10:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitobunny View Post
    Didn't they say they kept 5 mans because anymore is too much chaos? Since the game is about watching what's on screen (actions rather than UI), too many people would result in too many spells. Likewise, I think they also stated that having say 10 mans would make 5 mans feel lesser, and thus the more important content would be 10 mans in the eyes of others.
    Exactly. Decimates player cooperation and creates that "elitism" sect on a realm where people who only run the 5 mans are inferior to those uber pro people doing the 10 mans. Look at WoW. 10 mans are seen as less to the 25 man raiders and 25 mans seem unnecessary to the 10 man raiders. Bad idea and I'm glad they're avoiding it and breaking the mold. This isn't WoW, people. Let's get that idea in your heads =)

  13. #213
    The Patient Lannden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Boston, Mass
    Posts
    315
    For the longest time I was totally against this game because of a perceived lack of endgame content due to not having some sort of raid/gear treadmill. But then as patch 4.3 dropped I started to think and we were having a real hard time getting healers to show up for the raid due to the holidays. We ended up just not doing anything fun or productive those nights. "why do I raid if the loot is just a means to an end for me?" I began to think. It is all about doing fun and challenging content with my friends to me, not the loot. Why can't an MMO have some sort of challenging dungeon content without the need for gear or the perfect group make up?

    Then, of all things, the Christmas event in WoW started and I went to do the Greench. The new Greench is actually a really fun and active event that the whole community that can get into. Its not perfect and becomes really easy at prime time but its still a lot of fun. It dawned on me this is what DE's in GW2 are supposed to be just without the flaws thanks to the scaling. I also remembered back to the AQ gate opening and how awesome that was, a hell of a lot better than the raid even, this game will have a world full those.

    You don't need raids to have fun or be challenged in a game, that and the gear treadmill are an outdated model, at least to me.

  14. #214
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Exodar, lecturing Neophytes.
    Posts
    1,058
    that ain't going to change in GW2.
    That's one of the most uninformed statements I've heard in this entire thread. Let's be honest, you're just here arguing with people even though you don't know much about the game at all. One person will not hand out rewards, and because of the lack of having to organize a group around a trinity, then cooperative play will mean a lot more than just "Player A smacks enemy, Player B protects player A and C, and player C heals player A and B". How you can assume it'll be the same in GW2 is beyond me, unless you're just here to flame.

    everyone getting loot + everyone healing themselves and supporting others, all the while doling out damage = NOT. THE. SAME.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuchulainn View Post
    That's one of the most uninformed statements I've heard in this entire thread. Let's be honest, you're just here arguing with people even though you don't know much about the game at all. One person will not hand out rewards, and because of the lack of having to organize a group around a trinity, then cooperative play will mean a lot more than just "Player A smacks enemy, Player B protects player A and C, and player C heals player A and B". How you can assume it'll be the same in GW2 is beyond me, unless you're just here to flame.

    everyone getting loot + everyone healing themselves and supporting others, all the while doling out damage = NOT. THE. SAME.
    my reply was more like about the first part (about how no one will ever know which move has been decisive for the win/loss), not the last which i let in the quote for i can't tell why.
    on a second read, i get it can be mistaking though.

  16. #216
    GW2 have raids, they're just not instanced.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Lannden View Post
    Then, of all things, the Christmas event in WoW started and I went to do the Greench. The new Greench is actually a really fun and active event that the whole community that can get into. Its not perfect and becomes really easy at prime time but its still a lot of fun. It dawned on me this is what DE's in GW2 are supposed to be just without the flaws thanks to the scaling. I also remembered back to the AQ gate opening and how awesome that was, a hell of a lot better than the raid even, this game will have a world full those.

    You don't need raids to have fun or be challenged in a game, that and the gear treadmill are an outdated model, at least to me.
    Welcome to the correct side!

    Seriously though, great post, and the kind I would link to the next time this argument comes up... which should be in a few hours or so. Raiding is like mountain climbing; you fight your way to the top, proud of your accomplishments and the trophies you earned along the way. Problem is, the minute the expac hits, everyone takes a ski-lift to meet you at the top, and your journeys begin again.

    Skip the mountain, raid the world. GW2 style.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    It's funny how the definition of a raid has changed. Now a raid means an instanced event with a fixed amount of people. But some might remember the awesome raids in Dark Age of Camelot where you could have over 100 players participating (not that they needed that many people).

    A raid requires lots of people. If you can't make it, get more people.
    This change happened as certain part of playerbase started to demand more challenging content. "Zerg more, with a bigger zerg" tends to get boring as a general concept, while controlled size of raid ensures that you can tailor content so that players don't get bored by simply getting a bigger zerg.

    GW2 tries to work around this by adding completely new abilities to world "raid" bosses as more players come to fight them (in addition to hp pool scaling). We shall see how well that approach works. We know that general concept works fairly well in a small, relatively controlled (size-wise) environment like that of diablo games.

  19. #219
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    683
    Quote Originally Posted by Lannden View Post
    For the longest time I was totally against this game because of a perceived lack of endgame content due to not having some sort of raid/gear treadmill. But then as patch 4.3 dropped I started to think and we were having a real hard time getting healers to show up for the raid due to the holidays. We ended up just not doing anything fun or productive those nights. "why do I raid if the loot is just a means to an end for me?" I began to think. It is all about doing fun and challenging content with my friends to me, not the loot. Why can't an MMO have some sort of challenging dungeon content without the need for gear or the perfect group make up?

    Then, of all things, the Christmas event in WoW started and I went to do the Greench. The new Greench is actually a really fun and active event that the whole community that can get into. Its not perfect and becomes really easy at prime time but its still a lot of fun. It dawned on me this is what DE's in GW2 are supposed to be just without the flaws thanks to the scaling. I also remembered back to the AQ gate opening and how awesome that was, a hell of a lot better than the raid even, this game will have a world full those.

    You don't need raids to have fun or be challenged in a game, that and the gear treadmill are an outdated model, at least to me.
    Another one who has seen the light! ^_^ You will find much happiness and fun among friends in GW2. I quit WoW a little less than a year ago and couldn't be happier. Currently 42/50 in HoM and just sold a mini polar bear. 2300e in my pocket so I imagine I can do what I can to quickly get the last weapons and armor sets that I need to fill up my HoM =).

    Back on Topic though, I agree 100%. Raids and a gear treadmill are poor means of making your game seem "fun". It gives the mentality that you HAVE to log on and you HAVE to do that next raid and HAVE to buy that next expac so your purples can keep getting better and better.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-27 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Foreverlad View Post
    Skip the mountain, raid the world. GW2 style.
    Inspirational. <3

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    The problem with raiding is developers invariably make it the main focus of their game. You bore yourself crazy leveling, then get to the "end game" hop on the gear treadmill and chase a carrot forever. Since GW2 doesn't have that crutch they're forced to make the entire game entertaining, instead of just wasting your time with tier after tier of more or less the same old shit.

    If it's challenging content you want, you'll still have that in 5 man explorable dungeons. To give you some perspective, the devs recently said a full clear, one shotting everything with a fast moving uber pro group should take you about 1 hour. So the average group of friends taking their time and carrying that one baddie friend we all have, you'll be looking at maybe 2 hrs imo. Which to me seems perfect.

    People just need to lose their old Wow mindsets.
    I wish I could somehow turn your post into a solid form that I could have sex with, you hit the nail on the head good sir.

    6 years ago when I was 19, living with my parents, had a job that was meh, and all the free time in the world I would think GW2 would be shit without raids. But now I am 26, have my own place, a career job, and nowhere near as much free time as I used to I am all for an MMO like GW2. I can no longer set aside the time needed to actively raid in MMO's these days, so I need an MMO where I can hop on for 1-3 hours and still enjoy myself instead of running around org bank waiting for Q's/raid invites.
    Last edited by Menkey; 2011-12-27 at 09:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •