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  1. #221
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menkey View Post
    I wish I could somehow turn your post into a solid form that I could have sex with, you hit the nail on the head good sir.

    6 years ago when I was 19, living with my parents, had a job that was meh, and all the free time in the world I would think GW2 would be shit without raids. But now I am 26, have my own place, a career job, and nowhere near as much free time as I used to I am all for an MMO like GW2. I can no longer set aside the time needed to actively raid in MMO's these days, so I need an MMO where I can hop on for 1-3 hours and still enjoy myself instead of running around org bank waiting for Q's/raid invites.
    Yeah Mif is quite an inspirational, informative voice on these forums. Glad to have him around.

  2. #222
    There's kind of an irony to DE's in the fact that the NPC's are initiating and we the players have to now play an reactive role to any boss/organization as opposed to the proactive roles players take in traditional mmo's such as WOW.

    I guess in GW2 bosses raid you!!!

  3. #223
    Mechagnome Shadowviper's Avatar
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    There is one thing I've always wondered as I played WoW raid. "Argh! I hate all life and want to kill it, but first I will go into this dungeon and sit here until a group of people comes and kill me!" I loved WoW raiding but I've always wondered why they just aren't outside pwning stuff and we have to run to them. Oh wait isn't that what GW2 and Dynamic Events are?
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  4. #224
    I would like to see raids in the game, but I do not think it will happen. The problem many people bring up is that raiding turns the game into a giant gearmill, why not solve that problem by offering rewards other than gear? Schematics, cool toys, special dyes. Even making raids part of larger, world wide dynamic events that require completion of the raid to finish.

    I would not miss the lootmill mechanic, but I would miss the thrill and challenge of working with a large group of friends to overcome real challenges.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    I would like to see raids in the game, but I do not think it will happen. The problem many people bring up is that raiding turns the game into a giant gearmill, why not solve that problem by offering rewards other than gear? Schematics, cool toys, special dyes. Even making raids part of larger, world wide dynamic events that require completion of the raid to finish.

    I would not miss the lootmill mechanic, but I would miss the thrill and challenge of working with a large group of friends to overcome real challenges.
    Why can't DE's be challenging? why can't you get your guild to meet in an area and run that DE together? (I'm planing to lead a crusade across the a zone in the game with my guild and see how much impact we can make on it).

    just because their not called raids doesn't mean they won't feel like it, kind of like how Damage/control/support is a reworked (and beter imo) version of the holy trinity.

    The only reason GW2 doesn't have instanced raiding is because they want to make the content easily assemble to anyone who wants to try it out, they don't want players to "wait around" for your group of 10-25 (using wow as a bases of comparison). I will admit I am a little bias on this subject, the fact being my guild could barley get a 10 man running. :P

    But I think raiders will be happy once they start finding the serious elite DE's , while I'll be happy just being that guy that hits the dragon watching the strategy of other players come toghter going like "woah cool stuff guild of extraordinary raiders"
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2011-12-30 at 12:13 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    What i hope does not happen is that all dev time focuses on pvp, i dont think will happen, but ive seen alot of people say, gw is about pvp, and not pve and gw2 should be the same, this scares me as personally i dont see my self playing this game for pvp as i prefer moba style games and other rts for that(i feel they do it better, and no matter how good gw2 does it i dont think theyll beat smite in that form of 3rd person pvp).
    GW was about PvP, and GW2 will have a MASSIVE focus on it, however, Arena.NET are the only people who seperate PvP and PvE skills, and balance the game perfectly, so you shouldn't have to worry, if the game is anything like Guild-Wars, it WILL be a PvP game and a damn good one at that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Makamoka View Post
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  7. #227
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Raids nah.

    Big dungeon like area's where you can go in with about 10-15-20-25 people, like in Urgoz/The Deep?

    YES!

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  8. #228
    I don't think GW2 should have raids unless they going to be linear like it was in burning crusade which creates a epic feel to the instance.

    This having 2 raids sizes and 3 different modes for each raid really kills the epicness of raiding which is why raiding guilds in wow are disbanding at a faster rate then ever before.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by rzy View Post
    GW was about PvP, and GW2 will have a MASSIVE focus on it, however, Arena.NET are the only people who seperate PvP and PvE skills, and balance the game perfectly, so you shouldn't have to worry, if the game is anything like Guild-Wars, it WILL be a PvP game and a damn good one at that!
    GW had/has also a fairly good PvE side too.
    3 campaigns -each on a separate continent with numerous zones, lore, creatures etc- + 1 xpac = "massive" amount of PvE if you ask me.

    GW2 will probably have about the same balance between both type of content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Raids nah.

    Big dungeon like area's where you can go in with about 10-15-20-25 people, like in Urgoz/The Deep?

    YES!
    elite missions are about the same thing as raids but the name from my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrina View Post
    I don't think GW2 should have raids unless they going to be linear like it was in burning crusade which creates a epic feel to the instance.

    This having 2 raids sizes and 3 different modes for each raid really kills the epicness of raiding which is why raiding guilds in wow are disbanding at a faster rate then ever before.
    define linear?
    and explain how linear => epic? i really just can't get it.

    and having different raid sizes and modes didn't kill wow raids, what did (among other things) is that bliz gave the same loot tables to every raid size, thus ruining one of the reasons people prefered bigger raids before as compared to pre-cata.
    Last edited by sacrypheyes; 2011-12-30 at 09:54 PM.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by sacrypheyes View Post
    define linear?
    and explain how linear => epic? i really just can't get it.

    and having different raid sizes and modes didn't kill wow raids, what did (among other things) is that bliz gave the same loot tables to every raid size, thus ruining one of the reasons people prefered bigger raids before as compared to pre-cata.
    I think he means that lets say dungeon D is the bees knees, but to go there you first needs to spend 2 months each on grinding dungeon A, B and C. And if you like having alts at all, you will by the time you quit have run dungeon A approximately five thousand times. Doesn't that just scream epic?

    The argument for having a linear system essentially boils down to "My playing experiece is ruined by people who are not me can enjoy somewhat similar content"

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by sacrypheyes View Post
    define linear?
    and explain how linear => epic? i really just can't get it.
    I don't get it either. From what I gather, "linear" questing in MMOs and "linear" playthroughs in single-player rpgs are all generally hated and thought of as "negatives." Not sure why "linear" raids would be welcome, or even epic. IMO, it would be best (if raids were introduced) if all raids were always current and the rewards never became obsolete because in two weeks there will be a new raid out there that rewards better gear.

  12. #232
    Linear play isn't a negative in single player RPGs. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Planescape, Radiant Historia, etc- were well received critically and commercially for the most part. All quite linear. One could make the case for The Old Republic also being linear; a very hot MMO right now.

    I don't care about linearity personally. Just pointing out such a style of game is not always regarded negatively in a vulgar or academic sense.

  13. #233
    Brewmaster Neglesh's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a certain zone/area that has rotations of elite DE's, so people know "Right we can go to Aldon" (Aldon being completely made up) And know that that area runs elite DE's.

    Dunno, was just thinking bout it!

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    The problem with raiding is developers invariably make it the main focus of their game. You bore yourself crazy leveling, then get to the "end game" hop on the gear treadmill and chase a carrot forever. Since GW2 doesn't have that crutch they're forced to make the entire game entertaining, instead of just wasting your time with tier after tier of more or less the same old shit.

    If it's challenging content you want, you'll still have that in 5 man explorable dungeons. To give you some perspective, the devs recently said a full clear, one shotting everything with a fast moving uber pro group should take you about 1 hour. So the average group of friends taking their time and carrying that one baddie friend we all have, you'll be looking at maybe 2 hrs imo. Which to me seems perfect.

    People just need to lose their old Wow mindsets.
    I agree with this. Plus, from what I've heard, everything in GW2 will be like a raid anyway.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Azidonis View Post
    I agree with this. Plus, from what I've heard, everything in GW2 will be like a raid anyway.
    I also agree with this, the game is not wow and is not trying to be wow. If you want the game to be like wow then don't play it just stay playing wow because it wont be.

    I get the whole "i want a wow clone with same gameplay, story and better graphics" thing.. but GW:2 wont be that game.

  16. #236
    Dreadlord Turbotef's Avatar
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    I really don't see what's keeping people from playing both games to fulfill certain wants/needs in their free time. Playing WoW for $15 a month is pretty damn cheap, stay subscribed and then buy a copy of GW2 to enjoy the game play aspects of both. GW2 does not need to be anything like WoW and vice-versa.

    I'll be playing both and not complaining about what one has that the other game needs game.
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  17. #237
    Should it have raids? No, because the devs don't want them.

    There will still be tough things to down...but the majority of raiders nowadays raid to get the gear. To let them raid. It's just a mindless cycle after a while. Sure, you down a boss and the feeling of achievment is awesome.
    But then what do you do? Do it again next week. It's becomes so boring so quickly.

    GW2 should have enough dynamic content to keep us interested without raids. The scaling, lack of trinity, greater variation of skills abd DEs themselves etc will all work together to keep things feeling alot fresher than they do in most MMOs.
    Raids have their place, but I've personally reached the point now that I can barely be bothered to do a raid again after I've done it once.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Linear play isn't a negative in single player RPGs. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Planescape, Radiant Historia, etc- were well received critically and commercially for the most part. All quite linear. One could make the case for The Old Republic also being linear; a very hot MMO right now.

    I don't care about linearity personally. Just pointing out such a style of game is not always regarded negatively in a vulgar or academic sense.
    I think you misunderstood what I meant. Of course those games are well received, but read reviews of certain Final Fantasy games, for example, and you'll come across criticisms about the game being "too linear." Some use the word "corridor," referring to the play through being like walking down a single corridor from start to finish. I don't mean that games which are linear are bad or not liked, just that games (as far as I've ever seen) are never praised for being linear and if the linearity is ever brought up, it's in the negative column in a list of pros and cons about the game.

  19. #239
    Mechagnome Vewen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Linear play isn't a negative in single player RPGs. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Planescape, Radiant Historia, etc- were well received critically and commercially for the most part. All quite linear. One could make the case for The Old Republic also being linear; a very hot MMO right now.

    I don't care about linearity personally. Just pointing out such a style of game is not always regarded negatively in a vulgar or academic sense.
    I don't mind linearity, if it is a way to bring a great and fascinating story. FF13 was called extremely linear, but I didn't mind because it had a story that required that.

  20. #240
    As long as the events in GW2 can be really challenging by the time we reach the higher levels, and, needless to say, provide rewards that are worth fighting for and rarely drop, then I'm happy.

    If events turn out to be the equivalence of level 60 Azuregos stormed by level 85s in full epics without any need for tactics, teamplay, effort, good gear, and so forth, and without promising rewards in the end, then I won't last long in the game.
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