the problem with raids is that it promotes a selfish mentality that we ultimately saw happen to the WoW community in its later stages during wrath (and arguably, late BC).
On top of this, the problem with raids is that you require people to be there in order to do them. While Guilds will exist in GW2 (um, yea...) they wont be used as a means to raid for yourself. I cannot tell you how many guilds I jumped through in WoW simply because the Guild Leader could not guarantee everyone will show up, everyone was in control of their own actions and said "whatever, im not coming". This either lead to the guild falling apart, or the guild leader resorting to more aggressive tactics towards their own members, and im pretty sure no one here likes to be pressured into doing anything when all they are trying to do is have fun.
Raids are fun to have multiple friends to do with, but if you don't have those dedicated friends, it is a complete hell.
This is why I like GW2's approach, you are not restricted to RAIDING to get the best gear available, the developers are not trying to pressure you into a corner by forcing you to do large scale dungeons (which is what raids are) with people you do not want to affiliate yourself with in order to be viable. It just doesnt make sense for it.
Why force yourself to get along with people you may not like just to get gear?
That's why I will probably make a small guild for myself, and only invite friends to it, since raiding doesn't exist, I wont be forced to deal with assholes anymore because I need to fill that Healer's spot or tank spot... (Thank goodness they're getting rid of the Trinity). If someone pisses me off, I can just /ignore and never deal with them again.
People are stupid and people are mainly dicks, why put up with them to raid?
I used to want raids in gw2. I also wanted the carrot on a stick treadmill of progression. Im fine with no raids and no gear upgrades, but the game play is going to have to be very very fun. If its even as good as other games then i wont like it. It has to be better without having raiding and gearing.
At the bottom of the ocean even light must die...
Edit: The game is clearly about fighting baddies, all I asked for was a little variety from 5 mans. You'll notice my post said 10 or less people, I don't want 25 man raiding guilds or a bunch of people racing for world first.
Last edited by Blood Crusade; 2011-12-15 at 08:18 PM.
While I do enjoy instance raiding, I feel like it might be a concept that will need to change radically in the future or be phased out totally. Doesn't seem to hold up as well in today's MMOs as it did back when you had to raid the planes in EQ.
Logistics is the ONLY thing that makes encounters difficult, so you tell me, why are 5 mans less fun than 10 mans?
Because I tend to have more than 4 friends in most games I play. Whoever said I wanted the difficulty removed? Playing an MMO and dealing with people go hand in hand, that's what the MM pretty much stands for.
Raids were the most tedious experience I had in WoW, no thanks.
I think people are getting a bit carried away with terminology here
I thought there was dynamic events that require 10 people minimum to accomplish, they also scale in difficulty the more people you have with you. I would just consider it an outdoor raid.
But when WoW got older, it drew in a broader audience, more people who were competitive who saw the game as some kind of contest of whos top dog in raiding. This lead to people becoming more self centered, as they tried to get the best gear possible to be recognized. Gear became so important, that it trumped the idea of a unified community that guilds provided. Nowadays you cant even find one guild where some guild member left the guild to try and apply for some guild doing Hard Modes, instead of trying to push their guild into getting better to do them.
Its not the game that has become the problem, its the people. The Raid model system has become out of date, simply because the people who play the game have changed. We have a more self-entitled audience in the MMO genre than we used to 10 years ago, and I doubt they are going anywhere soon.
This is why GW2 is a very good candidate for changing the game, taking out raiding as the epitome of progression opens up the avenues for one to measure their own success, which I hope will make people actually go OUT into the world and do something they want to do, rather than "Its Tuesday, get on your fucking mains right now or so help me I will make your life a living hell".
I'm honestly wondering if anyone is capable of imagining non-instance raiding. Nobody said it had to be "the same damn mold". No one said it had to be the carrot on a stick routine either. I'm honestly wondering if anyone is reading the entirety of the posts in favor. I'm simply considering the idea to completely strip down and kick the old idea of raids in the face, pick it up, and rebuild it in the eyes and the dynamic of the DEs in GW2. I don't want anything like WoW. Let's just pretend WoW doesn't exist.
Those large scale DEs you're talking about so far have only showed one boss. They look like fun, and very large! However, what I think most of us (not all of us, but most) are talking about are multi-boss DEs. I don't even think we truly understand how A-Net would make what we're looking for. Just try, if it's possible for you, to imagine something like this. A type of large scale, multi-boss DE that follows a small storyline. It doesn't even have to be vital to the main storyline, as I know that's what tends to make 'raiding' endgame content. This is not what I'm looking for. Raids as true endgame content are silly, but what if they made these things with novelty side storylines? A way for people who enjoy the lore or hardcore, large group PvE to get a bit more involved.
There doesn't have to be any elitism, race to world firsts, raiding guilds, or endgame content out of it. More or less, I'd just like to know what A-Net could possibly do with the idea.
I won't say I'd hate the idea. I wouldn't like it either, but I most likely wouldn't get involved with them anyways.
I would say only if they could balance a raid for not having tanks or healers.
For example, you basically NEED to dodge every boss attack, or else it will one shot you, or bring you to near death in under a second. This just felt silly in my opinion, it didn't feel like you were fighting a boss. I know bosses are suppose to be big, strong, and epic, but nothing is epic about running around for 5 minutes, hitting them a few times, and continuing to run.