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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    And is exactly what the end events of DE chains are...
    The ones I've seen are epic for sure, but unless I'm missing something, they look to really be lacking the challenge part. I'm talking about something that requires real organization and planning.

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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    If they make DEs that suit this model, great. But so far, I haven't seen any.

    Shatterer, Tequatl, Undead/ Ghost Ship. Each one of them is a DE that is 1. Large, 2. Difficult (tuned down for demos, 40 minutes is not enough to get OMFG good at a game, and people were still "wiping"), 3. Require thoughtful planning/ reaction.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-15 at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The ones I've seen are epic for sure, but unless I'm missing something, they look to really be lacking the challenge part. I'm talking about something that requires real organization and planning.
    The ones at the demos were tuned down. Arena Net knows how to make a hard game.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The ones I've seen are epic for sure, but unless I'm missing something, they look to really be lacking the challenge part. I'm talking about something that requires real organization and planning.
    In all the demos at conventions, they toned down the difficulty a lot for all the events, but still... Even if the challenge was doubled, it still seems like it'd be too easy. There's no point in having these DEs if there's no risk in failing. Otherwise it's not an adventure to save something, it's just hitting paper mache baddies with a baseball bat.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-15 at 05:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Shatterer, Tequatl, Undead/ Ghost Ship. Each one of them is a DE that is 1. Large, 2. Difficult (tuned down for demos, 40 minutes is not enough to get OMFG good at a game, and people were still "wiping"), 3. Require thoughtful planning/ reaction.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-15 at 06:42 PM ----------



    The ones at the demos were tuned down. Arena Net knows how to make a hard game.
    I'm talking DEs which after release take almost a year to pull off successfully. Yes, I'm sure they'll be plenty difficult, but I want to see sequences of bosses, maybe a small storyline, something worth spending a lot of time to perfect.
    Last edited by airea; 2011-12-15 at 11:46 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Cool story, brah, but Instanced, Restricted, Carrot-on-a-stick, Raids do not make MMOs MMOs, in fact, WoW is hardly an MMO anymore because of LFD and LFR, and all those people sitting in cities waiting for queues to pop or raid nights to begin. The only thing Massive about WoW is the ammount of money it rakes in. The only thing massively multiplayer about WoW is... well... nothing.
    Endgame is what makes MMO. Without raids you have no endgame. You have no endgame you have no MMO, brah.

  5. #85
    yet there are MMOs which engame aren't raids. come again.

  6. #86
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    I'm talking DEs which after release take almost a year to pull off successfully. Yes, I'm sure they'll be plenty difficult, but I want to see sequences of bosses, maybe a small storyline, something worth spending a lot of time to perfect.
    Time spent =/= difficulty.

    But whatever, they're not even in closed beta yet (not till tomorrow) so we don't even know what all they have in store. Every bit of info they've released has been a cock tease, kind of like a burlesque show.

    However, I don't want raids or bosses where I spend hours hitting my head against a wall because some jackass, guildy or not, can't get their god damn shit together, or because of some gimmicky mechanic. If I wanted a game of Logistics I'd go play an RTS. WoW has really burned me on raiding.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-15 at 06:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shob View Post
    Endgame is what makes MMO. Without raids you have no endgame. You have no endgame you have no MMO, brah.
    GW2 end game starts at level 1 brah.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shob View Post
    Endgame is what makes MMO. Without raids you have no endgame. You have no endgame you have no MMO, brah.
    This type of thinking is exactly why ArenaNet are making GW2 the way it is. Perhaps we'll actually see less WoW fan boiz than expected. Hm.
    "No mounts?! No raids?! No gear grinds?! This isn't an MMO hurrrr!!!"

    MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online. If anything, the current model every other dev is running off of isn't an MMO model. Look at WoW; everything is streamlined and instanced. It's almost as if you're not even playing with other people most of the time. And you have the balls to say GW2 isn't an MMO because it doesn't have raids? You've gotta be beating your head against Blizzards dick, or something, "brah".

    Seriously, GW2 is more of an MMO than anything out there at the moment. Almost every aspect of the game AT LEAST encourages group play on a more interactive level. Unlike that fail ass LFD and LFR tool WoW shat out. You guys can have your raids, just not in my game. Now take your holy trin faildom and GTFO.

  8. #88
    Not sure about raids. But I would like to see some sort of max lvl endgame content.

  9. #89
    Instanced raids, no. Large-scale dynamic events, however, sound like a whole lot of fun.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by mrbananapoo View Post
    Not sure about raids. But I would like to see some sort of max lvl endgame content.
    There will be this type of content. It is simply different from say, WoW's endgame. In GW2 the advanced DEs and 5 mans are said to be highly challenging. In addition to being scalable worldwide.

    The x-factor in all this isn't rather GW2 will have a suitable endgame, it is how well playing that endgame is in practice.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Time spent =/= difficulty.

    I don't want raids or bosses where I spend hours hitting my head against a wall because some jackass, guildy or not, can't get their god damn shit together, or because of some gimmicky mechanic. If I wanted a game of Logistics I'd go play an RTS. WoW has really burned me on raiding.
    I never said that's what I wanted. I'm feeling the same as you man, I hate what WoW has done to raiding. But you need to realize that's not what most of us are asking for. I never said time was the key to difficulty, I'm saying that sometimes it's fun when you can't do something the first few times around, so you have to work to bring yourself to a new level of skill and coordination to be able to do it. It's called taking time to better your gameplay skill. With it, comes reward. The harder you work for a reward just makes it sweeter when you finally get it.

  12. #92
    ONLY IF raid rewards are NOT any better than what you can get with other content.

    A raid finder would be nice too.

  13. #93
    I never said that's what I wanted. I'm feeling the same as you man, I hate what WoW has done to raiding. But you need to realize that's not what most of us are asking for. I never said time was the key to difficulty, I'm saying that sometimes it's fun when you can't do something the first few times around, so you have to work to bring yourself to a new level of skill and coordination to be able to do it. It's called taking time to better your gameplay skill. With it, comes reward. The harder you work for a reward just makes it sweeter when you finally get it.
    What you are wishing for kinda isn't practical. It's like that guy who was concerned about DEs taking over major cities. Yea, that doesn't really work out.

    It's been tried before in other MMOs. It's not an successful concept for gameplay.

  14. #94
    Open world bosses that requires 200 people at least to down it in 15 minutes? Sure. Not instances, though.

    I used to think it was called "MASSIVE Multiplayer Online RPG" for a very specific reason. Nowadays its more for show -- sounds better than "Multiplayer Online RPG"
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    ONLY IF raid rewards are NOT any better than what you can get with other content.

    A raid finder would be nice too.
    First point- yes.
    Second point- no.

    I'm not even going to get into how much raid/dungeon finders have ruined other games. It completely demolishes any sense of community or teamwork. What's the point of working with strangers you're never going to see again? It becomes the illusion of a single player game rather than an MMO.

    As for the idea of loot, that's exactly my thinking as well. I know some people won't like the idea, so I'm in no way saying they should be necessary. I'm just saying it's good for the people who like longterm work towards a very large goal with some nice lore and storywork thrown into the mix.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-15 at 06:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    What you are wishing for kinda isn't practical. It's like that guy who was concerned about DEs taking over major cities. Yea, that doesn't really work out.

    It's been tried before in other MMOs. It's not an successful concept for gameplay.
    I suppose so... and I'm in no way saying I have all the right ideas, I would just like to see what A-Net could do with it. More of an experiment, rather than me knowing everything and telling them what they should do.

  16. #96
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    I wouldn't mind occasionally raiding in GW2, but to me GW2 is all about its PvP.
    I'm going to do the same I did in Aion, PvP as soon as I log in, till I decide to log out.

    I'm not a big fan of GW2 because of the PvE :P
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    I'm not even going to get into how much raid/dungeon finders have ruined other games. It completely demolishes any sense of community or teamwork.
    It doesn't actually do any of those things. At all. Arguments "proving" otherwise haven't proven squat.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    It doesn't actually do any of those things. At all. Arguments "proving" otherwise haven't proven squat.
    Basically, these tools have demolished server-wide community growth. If you're lucky enough to get into a group of respectable and kind people, great! But it makes us feel like we don't care enough to do that. We don't talk very much in the groups, all we're focusing on are the numbers. DPS, gear stats, kills, deaths, etc. I dunno, I'm just speaking from experience, because that's what it did for me.

  19. #99
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    Basically, these tools have demolished server-wide community growth. If you're lucky enough to get into a group of respectable and kind people, great! But it makes us feel like we don't care enough to do that. We don't talk very much in the groups, all we're focusing on are the numbers. DPS, gear stats, kills, deaths, etc. I dunno, I'm just speaking from experience, because that's what it did for me.
    Sounds like its a people problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
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    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    Basically, these tools have demolished server-wide community growth. If you're lucky enough to get into a group of respectable and kind people, great! But it makes us feel like we don't care enough to do that. We don't talk very much in the groups, all we're focusing on are the numbers. DPS, gear stats, kills, deaths, etc. I dunno, I'm just speaking from experience, because that's what it did for me.
    Nah. Other games with LFD/G tools haven't had this phenomena. Also you are doing that thing I told you about where you contextualize gameplay concepts only within Warcraft.

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