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  1. #1
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Should GW2 have raids?

    I know creating this thread, will most likely start some raging and yelling at each other but lets try to keep a civilized as possible.

    So thats the question. Should GW2 have raids. 10-25 people

    I personally am a pvp'er and will most likely only pvp. But talking to some of my old friends i use to play, ever-quest, wow , aion, and rift with brought up the point that GW2 is missing a huge audience by not adding in raiding.

    He brought up some valid points. First. The raids in GW2 can be some the most dynamic raids ever made, with the ability to for everyone heal,buff, dodge, interrupt and damg. Some abilitys like the Guardians Sanctuary: (Form a protective shelter that keeps out foes and hostile projectiles.) Just adds endless possibles for raid mechanics, unlike any other.
    I personally dont think that putting raids in is all that much to ask (not that i am). They are merely just world bosses contained in a zone it spot.
    I think having raids would bring more people to the game as well, and hopefully give them a taste of what balanced pvp is like.
    Last edited by hellar; 2011-12-15 at 04:06 AM.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    The problem with raiding is developers invariably make it the main focus of their game. You bore yourself crazy leveling, then get to the "end game" hop on the gear treadmill and chase a carrot forever. Since GW2 doesn't have that crutch they're forced to make the entire game entertaining, instead of just wasting your time with tier after tier of more or less the same old shit.

    If it's challenging content you want, you'll still have that in 5 man explorable dungeons. To give you some perspective, the devs recently said a full clear, one shotting everything with a fast moving uber pro group should take you about 1 hour. So the average group of friends taking their time and carrying that one baddie friend we all have, you'll be looking at maybe 2 hrs imo. Which to me seems perfect.

    People just need to lose their old Wow mindsets.
    Last edited by Mif; 2011-12-15 at 04:20 AM.

  3. #3
    So thats the question. Should GW2 have raids. 10-25 people
    Nah.

    I love raiding and it's the main draw to me in an MMO. GW2 though uses a class system, combat engine and garners a player base that doesn't support raiding as I enjoy. Which I am cool with- plenty of other games and a change of pace is nice.

    Also I don't think Anet are able to keep development budget needed for prestige raiding. No sub, no supportive systems, no advantage cash shop- raiding just can't work in the old format in GW2's format. Which, again, I am comfortable with.

  4. #4
    I really wanted to play this game, until I heard that there was no plans whatsoever for raiding
    I love raiding to be honest, I love the tight community it brings and I just don't feel like running 5mans would be the same. And I'm also not a fan of the big outdoor system, I've met too many idiots in random games/gametypes in my time of gaming that I would never trust random people again

    So yes, I do think there should have been

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
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    Not really, maybe some 8 player dungeons like in the original one.
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  6. #6
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Nah.

    I love raiding and it's the main draw to me in an MMO. GW2 though uses a class system, combat engine and garners a player base that doesn't support raiding as I enjoy. Which I am cool with- plenty of other games and a change of pace is nice.

    Also I don't think Anet are able to keep development budget needed for prestige raiding. No sub, no supportive systems, no advantage cash shop- raiding just can't work in the old format in GW2's format. Which, again, I am comfortable with.
    yea dont get me wrong i will do heroic dungeons on my downtime. But i know guild are going to be BIG, in size. And i was never a fan of leaving people out of stuff. I feel like 5 mans could divide guilds.

  7. #7
    Here are my thoughts:

    Raids would basically either have to be gigantic dynamic events, or average raid-sized dungeons. Personally, I'd like a raid sized dynamic event. Not just an encounter though. What I'd like to see is the takeover of entire enemy capital cities. Places the size of Kryta. A large number of players (25+) would appear in a group outside of town, then work their way past some scouts, forts, armories, etc.. Eventually, they would come upon the enemy capital city. They'd have to man turrets and catapults to break down the main wall, or possibly infiltrate the place from underneath. Then, they'd spread throughout the city causing mayhem and... 'procuring'... items from the vendors in the marketplace to gain loot. They'd move through the different quarters, making the way past guards and enemy heroes (boss encounters) until they found the throne room and had the final encounter with the enemy leader. They'd kill him and ransack the armories of the city for the raid loot.

    The reason it couldn't have stock raids like in WoW, is because it's raids are based off of standing still and spamming buttons using the Skinner's Box Technique for the players to enjoy themselves. This is just plain cheap, and doesn't following the "equal looting" method GW2 employs. It would take some serious adjustment, and by the end of it probably wouldn't even be able to be called "raids" by WoW's standards (a good thing).

    Overall though, I think a Guild Wars 2 version of large group efforts over an extended period of time could be really fun.

  8. #8
    Warchief crackleslap's Avatar
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    I would love to see raids in this game. But I'm mostly interested in the PvP anyway (because it looks sensational in this game) and the dungeons look amazing also.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    yea dont get me wrong i will do heroic dungeons on my downtime. But i know guild are going to be BIG, in size. And i was never a fan of leaving people out of stuff. I feel like 5 mans could divide guilds.
    Well, open world stuff is said to be more free form. Plus we have multiple guild and social tools compared to 8 year old Warcraft(ex).

    A lot of people stick on in their guild just to hang out. Only actual progression guild members are there to "work" so to speak. At least that has been my experience in the progression circuit. Guild Wars is a totally different mindset and attracts a different type of guild culture.

    Ultimately, not a big deal the 5-man dungeons. If it turns off some- kinda okay. Not every game has to suit everyone.

  10. #10
    Nah, the less similarities they have to current MMO design the better. I'm ready for something completely new to the MMO genre, besides, not having a sub fee or a carrot on a stick model means you can play another, more traditional style MMO, and not feel so torn for time between the two games. Honestly if this game had raids I would be slightly put off. Been there, did it for 6 years, gimme something new.

  11. #11
    I remember playing the original Guild Wars. Me and my fellow guildies all hit level 20, worked on gaining our extra attribute points, and ran... Underworld? and the other super-hard dungeon they had (it's been years, I forget the names). Eventually, A-net released a whole new zone/dungeon for players at level 20. It kept us busy and felt like REAL endgame content that didn't require consumables, crazy strats, etc.

    I've nothing against people who enjoy raiding, but there's more than one way to produce end-game content, and I see little reason why we need to build and classify content as a raid to keep folk interested. The sooner the genre/mmo staples are let go of, the sooner options and alternatives can really shine.

  12. #12
    I don't think they should have raids, in a traditional sense. But the Dynamic events that require a lot of players, like the shatterer, they should have lots of.

    Would also love to see DE's that are almost an entire story itself, like DE that has you invade a enemy territory, collect supplies and set up a base camp, defend your base and attack and try to capture others, and ultimately get to the main base and kill their leader.

  13. #13
    Raiding isn't something I want. After so many years I've come to hate having to play on a schedule. The first MMO I played had no raids, and I'm looking forward to not raiding again.

  14. #14
    I'm not concerned. The five man explorable dungeons sound awesome enough.

  15. #15
    Well let's break down a raid into what it really means.

    A raid in WoW is when a large group of people (usually 10/25/40) group together and raid the keep of an enemy, killing several bosses along the way. The reason people do the same raids more than once is due to Skinner's Box. Skinner's Box basically implies that if there's a random chance of getting something you want by performing an action, you'll keep doing the action until you get it. It's proven time and time again through social mental studies.

    At the core, a raid is just when a large group of people raid an enemy keep. No one said it had to follow any set of predefined rules or customs. When we say raid, we don't necessarily mean a WoW clone. We just want some large (25+) instanced group content. Yes, dungeons will be difficult, but 5 people? Honestly, that doesn't sound very epic to me. I like raiding because it's a massive player experience that takes months to perfect. So whether it's a longer, larger dungeon or a massive DE with several bosses, I'm all for it.

    We need to leave the WoW frame of mind behind. Raids don't have to be bad things! They just need to be stripped down to their core purpose and then rebuilt with good mechanics that are actually fun and worth our time.

  16. #16
    I would rather not. WoW and (hopefully) SW:TOR already have good endgame raiding, and I like the fact that GW2 is doing something different. Besides, I don't really understand how that would work in GW2. There aren't any gear upgrades in this game, right?
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  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    No. It shouldn't. Ever. They're not excluding a large population either...
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  18. #18
    The original guild wars did have lots of fun places.

    Fissure of Woe was the place to be for a long time - 1 tank 2 healers and 5 dps going up against a sleuth of hex-loving shadowkin. It was long but the key was not so much clearing it, but enjoying it.

    In the first expansion they added some 12 man places - more akin to raids - which were brilliant too. Guild Wars did some great work on raids with 12 players - so I don't see why they wouldnt include raids in GW2. Sadly I won't be playing the game because without a healer class, it doesn't excite me in the slightest.

  19. #19
    They already exist in the form of there public quest system :P

  20. #20
    Nope. Plenty of other games for raiding if that is your playstyle wish. But I do enjoy the occasional big event and it looks like they will have that (i.e. The Shatterer event).

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