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  1. #21
    Other MMOs have raiding, in fact so many of them do. Let Arenanet add a different way of doing things, so those who like raiding can pick one game and those who want something different can pick GW2. Also a good thing is if you do like the raiding type play style but also like the way GW2 handles things, and you can adequately divide your time between two MMOs then you can get the best of both worlds.

  2. #22
    Here's the kicker. Not all of us want the raids from other games. We've been dealing with them this far along. I love the idea of large scale PvE, but I hate the mechanics every MMO thus far has employed. I'd love to see a whole new take on large scale, long term, multi boss PvE. I'm not about to use the word "Raid" again, as nobody seems to understand the difference between the garbage every other MMO has been spitting out, and the true essence of what they're all about; large scale, lore-bound, intensive PvE. Does anybody get my meaning here? If so, please elaborate further than the typical 'no, raids shouldn't come within 10 miles of the game' line.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    Here's the kicker. Not all of us want the raids from other games. We've been dealing with them this far along. I love the idea of large scale PvE, but I hate the mechanics every MMO thus far has employed. I'd love to see a whole new take on large scale, long term, multi boss PvE. I'm not about to use the word "Raid" again, as nobody seems to understand the difference between the garbage every other MMO has been spitting out, and the true essence of what they're all about; large scale, lore-bound, intensive PvE. Does anybody get my meaning here? If so, please elaborate further than the typical 'no, raids shouldn't come within 10 miles of the game' line.
    Well, my first real MMO experience was in EQ. Where raids were more inclusive and many of them had competitive zones and much open world encounters. As most thing, it had it's upside and downsides. I remember Vanguard, Ultima Online and Asheron's Call having their own quirks as well to the concept of dungeon running/raiding.

    It was actually a long time before dungeons came in vogue. Everyone loved raiding in EQ. The sort of raiding endgame we have now stems mostly from the downsides- mob camping, overly large raid size, KSing, etc.

    I get where you are coming from in how you visualize raids here. Though as I said earlier, for me, the key is having options/choices. I am not eager for instance based raiding to die out but it's nice to have other stuff too. Which is why GW2 really doesn't need raids; nor can it really support the 10 year old model of raiding.

    It's like the Recount thread earlier today; Recount isn't bad per se. But what use would it be in GW2? The design doesn't necessitate such a tool.

    TLDR: Being a different style of game [GW2] is not inherently better or worse than others. Just have fun with the game on it's terms.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Fernling306's Avatar
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    10 man dungeons would be greeaattt.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am not eager for instance based raiding to die out but it's nice to have other stuff too. Which is why GW2 really doesn't need raids; nor can it really support the 10 year old model of raiding.

    But what use would it be in GW2? The design doesn't necessitate such a tool.
    I suppose what I'm really trying to get behind are large scale DEs. Scrap the idea of instancing, just very large DEs. There doesn't even need to be typical 'raid loot'. I just like having very large, sequenced, almost story-like PvE experiences with lots of other people. Basically, a large multi-sequence DE that has multiple bosses with fun and unique skills which scale in difficulty depending on the number of people there (hopefully usually a lot, so it will be quite challenging). By difficult, I mean so hard it will take people 6-8 months of really working together to complete it for the first time.

    The reason them being so difficult makes sense is because you aren't defending something that's yours or taking back land that was stolen from you, you're attacking enemy cities that have been theirs for hundreds of years. Do you understand a bit more what I mean?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by airea View Post
    I suppose what I'm really trying to get behind are large scale DEs. Scrap the idea of instancing, just very large DEs. There doesn't even need to be typical 'raid loot'. I just like having very large, sequenced, almost story-like PvE experiences with lots of other people. Basically, a large multi-sequence DE that has multiple bosses with fun and unique skills which scale in difficulty depending on the number of people there (hopefully usually a lot, so it will be quite challenging). By difficult, I mean so hard it will take people 6-8 months of really working together to complete it for the first time.

    The reason them being so difficult makes sense is because you aren't defending something that's yours or taking back land that was stolen from you, you're attacking enemy cities that have been theirs for hundreds of years. Do you understand a bit more what I mean?
    Your looking for the eliet DE's available in places like Orr. Most of whats been demo'd has been the easy stuff that not only any random group of people could compleat but also scales down to only needing a few people to win. They have said there will be places with Eliet DE's that will require largish groups of folks with a firm grasp on their characters and mechanics to defeat. They are not instanced obviously but who's to say they need to be. These areas are where you'll be looking if you want a challange on a large scale while dungeons will be for finely tuned challanges for a small band of adventurers.

    Personaly I dont want something akin to the standard instanced raids we've all come to know. I've been raiding wow since karazan was the hot new thing and its come down to I only log on 4 days a week at 5pm to raid. Raiding has become a second job for all intents and perpouses and I'd rather not see GW2's experience be spoiled by that agian. If folks want to be stuffed into skinners box with 24 other people there are plenty of other places to go.

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #27
    They have raids, they're just not instanced.

  8. #28
    The majority of MMORPG players actually don't raid. So skipping out on that isn't really a big deal. Large outdoor dynamic events are like raids... it gives you the over-sized "epic" feel that sometimes raids can have. 5 mans will offer the test-of-skill that some will want. I really don't see what adding raids would give to this game, to be honest... Other than lure out-of-place and never-to-be-satisfied WOW players to GW2.

    Raiding carries with it a certain mentality and way-of-thinking that is totally out of place with arenanet's vision. I hope they stick to their vision.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TordFish View Post
    They have raids, they're just not instanced.
    As Tord said, they have raids there just not instanced.

    When one is going on everyone who is in the area will be told so, those who don't want to participate don't have to and are ported to safety. Those who do are rewarded for their individual efforts (they track how much each person heals, does DPS, damage taken, damage avoided etc...) and each encounter will fine tune itself for how many people are involved, their experience & their gear.


    For those that do not want this style of play there are still instanced dungeons, many of which will have challenge modes available as well. Blizzard has even ripped of a few of their ideas that were posted for challenge modes which means everyone should be watching to see what they can come up with.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Blood Crusade's Avatar
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    I would love the idea of having 10 man or less raids, no more though. I do enjoy outdoor raids though, and that will be enough I guess. It probably won't happen, but, if they don't do raids, I'm hoping that means that 5 man content can be made accessible quicker. Here's to hoping. :P

  11. #31
    I'm far more excited for large scale dynamic even chains. Go out with your guild, explore somewhere, see if something happens. Participate in the open world and you'll be rewarded, that's the idea behind 'stuff' happening in the world (instead of semi-static instances and open game world where baddies sit around with their thumb up their ass waiting to be killed).

    In fact I think one of the coolest mechanics will be dynamic events within explorable dungeons being effected by the dynamic event chains happening in game world (outside of the dungeon instance). The dynamic event system just allows for a lot more flexibility in how people experience content, and that's why it's more exciting than raids. Sometimes you'll have encounters with some random elements in a raid (Faction Champs comes to mind from WoW), but that's more just a mixed bag that doesn't always significantly alter the mechanics of a fight or how you'll run a raid. You could specifically alter the outside events of a dungeon so you can explore different bosses/puzzles et al. in a dungeon to make a run more fun.

    There are a lot of options that people are expressly ignoring by trying to corner themselves into a raiding end game. I think that Anet has given a lot of interesting options so that they don't have to directly compete with every other MMO out there.

  12. #32
    I am pretty sure they are going to have giant world bosses (similar to raids).

  13. #33
    Over 9000! Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Personally, I like 5man dungeons being the main stuff, since it's pretty hard for me (and most people I guess) to get more than 5 real life friends together to play at one time, maybe even in the same room or house. It's so very hard to make a WoW event for me and my real life friends, because there is nothing really fun to spent a whole day/night on with 3-5 people. Yeah you could get some extra people in it, but then it kinda ruins the "just the homies doing the stuff" feeling.

    I do hope they will make a bunch of dungeons, and some of them could be really long on a special mode or something. But, the main focus in GW2 seems to be on the open world, and I think that they could add big events and scaling stuff for a group of say 10-25 people, and then maybe make it area to give the "raid feeling", instead of a single giant boss encounter for all of them.
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  14. #34
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    Oh, it's this thread again. By that one guy who started the addon shit storm thread.
    No, there shouldn't be raids in GW2. The dungeons are very dynamic as is, and very difficult in explorable mode. No, this isn't WoW. Use the thread search bar. Stop suggesting things from other MMOs should be in GW2. Stop being a tool.

  15. #35
    If you want a 10 man raid... why not grab 10 guildmates and go to one of the elite DEs @ L80? Or any DE really.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Maldriel's Avatar
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    I always believed that the 5man end game dungeons were more fun than the 10/25 in wow right now
    And omg, dat pvp!
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  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    If you want a 10 man raid... why not grab 10 guildmates and go to one of the elite DEs @ L80? Or any DE really.
    But you don't understand, Fencers! It has to be instanced, it has to be streamlined, and it has to be like WoW! QQQQQQQQQQQQ!!!
    /sarcasm lol.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    The original guild wars did have lots of fun places.

    Fissure of Woe was the place to be for a long time - 1 tank 2 healers and 5 dps going up against a sleuth of hex-loving shadowkin. It was long but the key was not so much clearing it, but enjoying it.

    In the first expansion they added some 12 man places - more akin to raids - which were brilliant too. Guild Wars did some great work on raids with 12 players - so I don't see why they wouldnt include raids in GW2. Sadly I won't be playing the game because without a healer class, it doesn't excite me in the slightest.
    i keep seeing healer-lovers say this. i can't help but think that they probably just don't really want to have to do much thinking while playing a game. they want to do what they've done for years in wow, spam stuff. healing in wow requires no thought. triage hasn't existed since BC

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    If you want a 10 man raid... why not grab 10 guildmates and go to one of the elite DEs @ L80? Or any DE really.
    That's an interesting thought. Imagine a Dynamic Event, that required 10 players to go to a certain place, and do something special, to activate a special DE for the 10 players.

    Or perhaps even guild specific DE's, that would be similar to a ToC-esque arena, putting your group of guild mates in combat with difficult enemies, and bosses.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Blood Crusade's Avatar
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    It's funny, because I said a 10 man raid, not instance. So much flaming, it's almost cute. The DEs sound like my cup of tea. I liked, in RIFT, going up to a raid tear with some guildies, tearing it open and owning whatever came out of it. Words are just hard I guess, to you guys raids has to mean instances. : /

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