Teir 13 Shadow 4 Piece Simcrafts (Regular rotation vs Mind Spike)

[Garouken]

I got my 4 piece today. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ouken/advanced)

Since I couldn't find a clear answer to which to use anywhere, I decided to run simcrafts myself.

Fast explaination of results: Regular rotation is always better.

Long explaination: I used mind_spike,if=pet.shadow_fiend.active this was anywhere from 700-400 dps loss depending on reforging. Higher values of mastery lowered the dps gap, highest I went to was around 2k mastery which resulted in the lowest DPS loss.

I than tried mind_spike,if=pet.shadow_fiend.active&buff.dark_archangel.up (during shadow fiend with archangel up only), this resuled in only 500-200 DPS loss in respective refroge sets.

Later I tried 2 other ways, where I delayed either shadow fiend or archangel in the sim to line them up perfectly every time. This resulted in around 800-500 dps loss.

So basicly what I learned from this; that you need some unreasonably high mastery value (probably around 4k) for mind spike rotation to be better. We should prolly stick to mind spiking stuff that dies in less than 15 seconds only.


On an unrelated note... if you are in a raid where you do not get DI reliably, once you get 4 piece reforging to Mastery will probably increase your dps (Check with your own gear set.)

With the gear I have now I found that having all buff except DI/FM, my stat weight become Mastery > Crit > Haste (with a significant difference in values between them.) Once you gain DI however, the stat weight go back to Haste>Crit>Mastery (with all of them being worth almost the same)

Best DPS reforge I found is 1742 hit, 1601+ haste (ImpPlague break point, worth ~200dps) and than Mastery > Crit > Haste. Gained around 150 dps reforging out of haste to mastery.

PS: Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor 384 is still >>> 391 Necromantic Focus by about 100 DPS

[Deleted]

Cool, I was thinking about this the other day.
Still sitting on 2 part, LFR parts. Hoping I could get the last 2 as a non LFR soon.

[Deleted]

So on any fight with a +dmg% mechanic (hagara for example) then spiking probably is the way forwards.

[Briggsta]

Have 3 pieces myself but still using 4pc t12 till i get the last t13. Seems like a downgrade from the t12 bonuses although the 2pc from t13 will be nice on all the add fights although i wont sacrifice my 4pc t12 for it.

[Sakamae]

Have 3 pieces myself but still using 4pc t12 till i get the last t13. Seems like a downgrade from the t12 bonuses although the 2pc from t13 will be nice on all the add fights although i wont sacrifice my 4pc t12 for it.

You should be using 2 pieces of both tier until you can get the 4 piece T13, unless you are talking about upgrading from 391 to LFR tokens. What ilvl are we talking about here? I have found the 2 piece T13 set bonus invaluable on most fights in DS.

[Garouken]

So on any fight with a +dmg% mechanic (hagara for example) then spiking probably is the way forwards.

Probably, but only if you have BOTH shadow fiend and archangel up. Hagara burn phase is short so it might we worth it there due to losing 3 gcd to apply dots otherwise. However on a longer burn phase such as Zon'ozz, regular rotation would be the way to go (moot point for heroic since ur just fighting tentacles all that phase anyway.)

[Deleted]

Thanks for testing this, I wondered after getting 4-set: "is this it?", and it seems like it is. Very disappointed over the minor (if noticeable at all) dps increase it provided.

Other classes are getting close to my dps in our 10man raids now, and once they get as lucky as I have been with getting tokens, its only a matter of time before they pull ahead :\ Our Arms warrior is ahead by a fair margin already. (depending on fights ofc)

[Hungerr]

How did you determine that mastery was outscaling haste without DI/FM? Please elaborate - you peeked my curiosity.

[Mogling]

Probably, but only if you have BOTH shadow fiend and archangel up. Hagara burn phase is short so it might we worth it there due to losing 3 gcd to apply dots otherwise. However on a longer burn phase such as Zon'ozz, regular rotation would be the way to go (moot point for heroic since ur just fighting tentacles all that phase anyway.)

Zon'ozz doesn't really have a burn phase as the dmg taken debuff will stack until the boss is dead if you do it right.

[Garouken]

How did you determine that mastery was outscaling haste without DI/FM? Please elaborate - you peeked my curiosity.

http://puu.sh/aLGL

Zon'ozz doesn't really have a burn phase as the dmg taken debuff will stack until the boss is dead if you do it right.

Oh I didn't realize it worked that way. We haven't tried it on heroic yet. Decided to work on ultraxion first.

Our Arms warrior is ahead by a fair margin already. (depending on fights ofc)

Arms is OP right now, my alt with 379 ilvl is pulling 33k dps on Ultraxion, 30k on morchok

[mastagomes]

I believe you could be wrong on the haste issue my fellow shadowpriest.

Simcraft is slightly inaccurate in the way it portrays stat weights and requires multiple levels of sims with different gear sets to come to a valid result.

What simcraft doesn't take into account is multiple reforge scenarios either. For example, with the current tier, the 3202 haste wall (for IMP Dev Plague +2) is attainable. Before and after said points haste is going to sim below Mastery, and only as you inch closer to 3202 will haste show that it is best to achieve that goal. Same goes for all the other break points such as 2737 (an extra Devouring Plague tick), or 2589 (Vampiric Touch) NB. These numbers are all without Dark Intent (except for the 2nd Imp Dev Plague which is the same number regardless of Dark Intent).

The moral of the story is, overall, you're better off following the same Int>Hit(17%)>Haste>Mastery>Crit (at 397ilvl avg). For the more advanced player depending on your gear, seek fit to reforge down to the breakpoints if you can not reach the nest one and reevaluate your reforges every near gear you get to see if you can reach the next break point with 3202 seemingly being as far as you can go this tier.

[Deleted]

Just thought I'd share my simresults as they're rather interesting (or not?)

int1
haste 0.54
mastery 0.54
crit 0.54.

good times.

[Deleted]

So basicly what I learned from this; that you need some unreasonably high mastery value (probably around 4k) for mind spike rotation to be better. We should prolly stick to mind spiking stuff that dies in less than 15 seconds only.

Why 15 seconds? Does that simcraft mindspike rule you used also use mind blast during shadow fiend?

Anyone got any idea how much is for example tendon dps when doing normal dots + shadowfiend compated to doing 4set mindspike+MB spam + shadowfiend?

---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 01:31 PM ----------

http://puu.sh/aLGL

Any chance to get same picture from simcraft with mindspike used?

[zakaluka]

I used mind_spike,if=pet.shadow_fiend.active this was anywhere from 700-400 dps loss depending on reforging

Can you post the results somewhere? The first question that comes to mind is to ask whether your priority list keeps MB at a higher priority than MS.

[Skygoneblue]

We're having a discussion on this at Elitist Jerks:

http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t124358-..._3_updated/p5/

The consensus thus far has been that it's worth using for short burn phases (Hagara after phase switch, Tendons, etc), but that in lieu of a normal rotation, your DPS will likely drop or end up being a wash.

Shadow Fiend = dps cooldown. The mana is just a perk.

[stickyjam]

your trinkets are probably the reason for crit being valued higher than haste
cunning and variable are making up a good bit of ur deeps

[FieryBull]

Kind of offtopic, but if you apply your dots just before the +DMG% finish in Hagara for example, does it stick? Or does it update dynamically and you lose the bonus?

[qactuar]

Kind of offtopic, but if you apply your dots just before the +DMG% finish in Hagara for example, does it stick? Or does it update dynamically and you lose the bonus?

As it's a temporary debuff on Hagara, I imagine it'd be lost when the debuff fell off. As far as I can tell, target buffs/debuffs apply dynamically to DoTs, while buffs/debuffs on you apply on a per-cast (or in the case of SW: P, per-refresh) basis.

In any case, I'm interested by this topic. I'm too lazy/dumb to theorycraft for myself, but I like change/the possibility of steering away from haste stacking, like we've done pretty much ever since 3.0. >_>

[Townsend]

Another drawback to using mindspike spam during a fight is Dark Intent. Your warlock isn't going to be too happy losing his buff for 15+ seconds every time you decide to leave the regular rotation.

[Keosen]

I don't really think that we need sims to say that mind spike rotation will be a dps loss.
Anyways i'm running with 2hcT12+2x397_T13 atm with haste over mastery and i'm at ~2950 without DI atm and i'm finding the combination of 2+2 powerful.
When execution phase hits SWD combined with BL+SF gives huge spikes, and i mean huge.

Sims seem to vary so much at the moment that the best advice is to calculate your own values than anything else.
I will stay haste heavy until i got 4x397_T13 at least and maybe i will chace the DP tick to do some calculations after that i will try mastery have setup, it will take time though since our token drops is shitty as always.