1. #1

    resto wod builds

    My question is what is the stats prio in wod? Is it the haste build or the mastery build?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by tendalar View Post
    My question is what is the stats prio in wod? Is it the haste build or the mastery build?
    From what I can tell and have heard, it's int>spirit to comfortable stage>mastery>haste>whatever else. Not sure if this is 100%, but from what I have seen it is

  3. #3
    Mastery and Haste are very close. You get 1% mastery per 88 points and 1% haste per ~90 points (if you have the 5% raid haste buff). Mastery gives a flat healing buff to all of our healing spells; haste gives a flat healing buff to all of our HoTs and increases the HPCT (Heal per Cast Time) of all our spells. This means Mastery is generally a bit better at increasing overall throughput than haste. However, considering that Swift Rejuvenation has been removed (meaning we have "long" GCDs after Rejuvs), haste's value is significantly improved. Haste will help the HPCT (or "spammability") of rejuvenation, effectively making up for the minor disadvantage it has in raw throughput when compared to mastery.

    Mastery vs. Haste is still an open debate in the resto community, but I'm advocating for Haste being slightly better than Mastery in most situations. However, we want as much mastery and haste as possible. Almost all the gear in WoD that we will be aiming for will be Mastery/Haste, with spirit on jewelry pieces.

    As for "builds" at level 100, a lot can/will change between now and then. However, the two "main" talent builds for level 100 are currently Incarnation/Germination and Soul of the Forest/Rampant Growth. We will likely start out with the Incarn/Germ spec until our mana regen can handle the SotF/RG "spec."

    If you're interested, I wrote some stuff on this over here: http://healcraft.net/2014/10/22/rest...l-guide-6-0-2/ (More level 100 stuff coming soon)

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    At Level 100, what I've been seeing:

    Spirit > Mastery > Haste > Crit

    Highmaul / BRF are going to be incredibly mana taxing at least for the first part of WoD (it's not like Level 90), so you're really going to want to max Spirit (3 items + Weapon Enchant) for the start.

    You can theorycraft Mastery versus Haste effects on direct throughput rather easily since Mastery is just a % flat modifier on all abilities with nothing special attached (for the most part, anyway, anything I may have missed is minor at most), and Haste is a modifier on cast time and on HoTs (so make sure, if you want to be accurate, to take into account the square effect on HoTs).

    Since a lot of druid healing is from HoTs, Haste probably has a bigger HPM effect than one can imagine. But you can still TC that, and I'd imagine Mastery generally ends up being more effective HPM, which is a way bigger deal than direct throughput alone. In Highmaul you are not going to be spamming Rejuv any global you have.

    As Lavathing said it still is heavily debated and probably will be into the tier, so you should definitely be flexible. With the "Diablo loot" and being a healer (i.e. passing on anything "good" i.e. socketed) you will generally have very little choice over your gear, so most of your actual stat flexibility is going to be in your enchants and your raid food. Definitely have stacks of both Haste/Mastery on hand, and if you're hardcore perhaps consider having extra enchants around to swap, fight depending.

    ===

    Glyph wise for Rampant Growth I'd suggest not taking the Regrowth glyph, since you generally get better mileage "munching" regrowth than rejuvenation.

  5. #5
    The Patient Drefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post

    Since a lot of druid healing is from HoTs, Haste probably has a bigger HPM effect than one can imagine. But you can still TC that, and I'd imagine Mastery generally ends up being more effective HPM, which is a way bigger deal than direct throughput alone. In Highmaul you are not going to be spamming Rejuv any global you have.
    This pretty much. Mastery from my experience has been way more effective during the Beta tests
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Mastery is just a % flat modifier on all abilities
    Mastery does not affect the Lifebloom bloom, healing from tier 2 talents and treants. Usually these heals for very small numbers but it's ok to be aware of this.

    I have been a big proponent of Mastery. I just recently became aware of the fact that the haste raid buff is multiplicative, not additive. This means Mastery and Haste are very close in terms of cost - 88 for Mastery, 90.7 for Haste. Mastery is more mana efficient, but only for the static heals, and since our big advantage is being able to heal on the move, the static heals might not make up a large part of our healing, just like it's been in the past. We might not see gear levels where Rampant Growth becomes viable for a while, and with Germination Rejuvenation has better mana economy than Healing Touch. This puts Haste ahead of Mastery since Haste also reduces the GCD. But mathematically, if you want to maximize the healing of 1 rejuvenation cast, those two stats should be kept fairly equal. To illustrate the math mechanism behind that stance: 1.3*1.3=1.69 is larger than 1.1*1.4=1.54.

    In my opinion static stat priorities/weights is a thing of the past, the secondary stats are now so close in effectiveness that they should be appropriately balanced - not necessarily to their mathematically given "optimum", but also in regards to getting short GCD (Haste is good), mana efficiency (Mastery is good) and maybe also more DPS (Mastery is bad) and better survivability (Versatility is good). Thus the answer will be encounter- and playstyle specific. Which is good game design.

    If I have understood Askmrrobot correctly they aim to be able to provide stat weights based on current gear and combat logs. AMR should then be able to tell you what gear that mathematically can optimise your healing output - but the other concerns should perhaps not be ignored.
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Teryx View Post
    This puts Haste ahead of Mastery since Haste also reduces the GCD. But mathematically, if you want to maximize the healing of 1 rejuvenation cast, those two stats should be kept fairly equal. To illustrate the math mechanism behind that stance: 1.3*1.3=1.69 is larger than 1.1*1.4=1.54.
    This is interesting: what do you intend to keep equal? For the mathematically best output, you would want to get the character sheet % values for both stats close, not the rating from gear only. And when accounting for all additive mastery effects (base mastery, mastery buff) this would mean to stack much more haste than mastery (like Hamlet is advocating)?

    Stats with 500 haste, 0 mastery: 1.1051 haste, 1.1656 mastery
    100 more haste: (600 haste, 0 mastery): 1.1162 haste (+0.998%), 1.1656 mastery
    100 more mastery: (500 haste, 100 mastery): 1.1051 haste, 1.1770 mastery (+0.975%)

    The point where 1 mastery rating becomes as effective as 1 haste rating is when you have 734 more haste rating than mastery rating. So do you mean by keeping the stats equal to have roughly 734 more haste than mastery?

    Btw. the number examples in your post don't make much sense as you're missing 0.1 in the second example The message is correct though.
    Last edited by Thalur; 2014-10-26 at 12:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Red gems in red sockets or how are we in that regard?

  9. #9
    2 of mastery or haste is still definitely stronger than 1 intellect, so don't go for 10 int gems
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    This is interesting: what do you intend to keep equal? For the mathematically best output, you would want to get the character sheet % values for both stats close, not the rating from gear only. And when accounting for all additive mastery effects (base mastery, mastery buff) this would mean to stack much more haste than mastery (like Hamlet is advocating)?
    Exactly, we are in agreement.

    What you want to keep equal is the ratio of the stat coefficients (1+the character sheet value) and the inverse cost of the respective secondary stats. For example: If your character sheet value, fully buffed, of Mastery is 30, the Mastery coefficient becomes 1.30. Let's say your Haste character sheet value is 20, thus the Haste coefficient is 1.20. The Mastery:Haste ratio becomes 1.30/1.20=1.083. The inverse cost ratio of mastery to haste is 90.7/88=1.03 (100/(88*(1.05)^2)=1.031 to be more precise). In this case you would benefit from having less Mastery and more Haste, which would take the ratio closer to 1.03.

    I've been thinking about writing up the math behind this, but I haven't had the opportunity to give it priority yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Red gems in red sockets or how are we in that regard?
    Since you can gem haste in red slots there's no reason not getting those socket bonuses. If you are at mythic gear levels and without much crit on gear my guess is gemming crit in blue sockets and taking those socket bonuses too will be a good idea.
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Teryx View Post
    Mastery does not affect the Lifebloom bloom, healing from tier 2 talents and treants. Usually these heals for very small numbers but it's ok to be aware of this.
    Small error, mastery does affect Treant healing as of 6.0.2.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavathing View Post
    mastery does affect Treant healing as of 6.0.2.
    Thanks for the heads up!
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

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