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  1. #1

    splitting 25man and 10man. the way it was before

    okay this is a response post to the thread about the devs are talking about splitting 10man and 25man.

    i have used the last 30 min on reading about 100 comments and that thread and they all seem to talk about the same problem and they all just give the same response '' why not just make 25 man drop more gear and give more points so people will go there''. no1 seems to remember how Wrath was and just brainfarted on that, so i thought i would make a new thread just about that

    Why not just bring back the way raiding was in Wrath??


    The seperation of 10man and 25man in Wrath was justified with 10man dropping lower lvl gear and bosses being a bit easier then on 25 man. This ment that the only way of doing real raiding was doing 25 man. As a player that has been raiding since vanilla, i feel less and less a raider when the number of player i am with in a raid decreases. So 40 man was great in the old days, but that was simple too many people since it took ages for 40 people to be gathered and there was really alot of people who could not make the jump from lvling to raiding. Now the TBC was brilliant since there was instances for either 10 man or 25 man. There was no problem balancing the two sides because there was really only one way you could go.
    When Wrath came out, it was nice to do naxx as both 10 man and 25 man since it was a nostalgic experience to see a place that most had only heard of and had only seen from videos on Warcraftmovies. Ulduar and ICC could take the splitting of 10 man and 25 man becuase they had so many bosses that people some times went to 10 man to practice and then went on in 25 man to ''progress in raid''

    With cata, people no longer needs 25 man to do raiding nor to get the best gear, so it is here things went wrong.

    Now the mop prebeta is out and i really hope that first of all, THEY FIX LFR!! many says that its not working and some say it is. i don't care what the arguments are, becuase they all have the same problem. With LFR people are getting tired more and more of an instance, so lets just hope they keep the LFR system to 1 place in MOP

    I think the cure for people QQing over the current raid system, is to simple get back the Wrath or TBC model back and implement it. It would fix many of the things that people are tired of, and it would give blizzard a chance to get a new start on a projekt that i think, has gone completely wrong

    with love FurryFang :-:
    Respect the game as you should the player. If you don't play the game anymore, plz don't talk like you still are pretty plz

  2. #2
    The more people in the raid, the better. I like being carried.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #3
    Blizzard won't kill off 10 man raiding again. They are not that stupid. Going back to WOTLK would do just that.

  4. #4
    But it is fine to kill 25 pretty much in Cata for Blizzard?

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    I'd rather in whatever raid size I want. Make it the same difficulty and loot quality and do whatever you want with it. You like 25-man and don't want it do die off? Good, I support you, but don't try and force everyone else into 25 setups if they don't want to.


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by exae View Post
    But it is fine to kill 25 pretty much in Cata for Blizzard?
    If one side is going to have a slow death i'm betting it's going to be 25man.

    IMO they will conclude everything is fine and throw a bone to 25man via separate realm first FoS (indistinguishable from 10man one, just awarded twice) to give them some false hope.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmloos View Post
    Blizzard won't kill off 10 man raiding again. They are not that stupid. Going back to WOTLK would do just that.
    Sub numbers kept on increasing when 25 man raiding was the pinnacle, as soon as they switched to 10man being equal it went down. Coincidence?

  8. #8
    10mans are popular because they are easy to maintaine, content goes down faster because you don't rely on 24 others. Also there you rarely fight over loot with other persons. I raided 10 man I enjoyed that, but 25mans are more intense which adds more joy for me. Just do whatever you want and don't focus on what died of or not.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamCast View Post
    Sub numbers kept on increasing when 25 man raiding was the pinnacle, as soon as they switched to 10man being equal it went down. Coincidence?
    Content became worse aswell. Alot of people loved Ulduar and ICC. Alot of people hated Firelands and Dragon soul.

    Anyway, this whole thread is a repost anyway so gonna see if a mod will close this. BAIBAI

  10. #10
    I honestly have no idea why people complain about 25 or 10 man raids... do what you want...if you want 25 man raids..run 25 man raids, if you want 10 man raids...well you get the picture...

    This is a dead topic, Blizz will not remove or change 10 or 25 mans. At least not for this xpac. and I don't for see it changing in later xpac's.

    -Jeric

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFang View Post
    okay this is a response post to the thread about the devs are talking about splitting 10man and 25man.

    i have used the last 30 min on reading about 100 comments and that thread and they all seem to talk about the same problem and they all just give the same response '' why not just make 25 man drop more gear and give more points so people will go there''. no1 seems to remember how Wrath was and just brainfarted on that, so i thought i would make a new thread just about that

    Why not just bring back the way raiding was in Wrath??


    The seperation of 10man and 25man in Wrath was justified with 10man dropping lower lvl gear and bosses being a bit easier then on 25 man. This ment that the only way of doing real raiding was doing 25 man. As a player that has been raiding since vanilla, i feel less and less a raider when the number of player i am with in a raid decreases. So 40 man was great in the old days, but that was simple too many people since it took ages for 40 people to be gathered and there was really alot of people who could not make the jump from lvling to raiding. Now the TBC was brilliant since there was instances for either 10 man or 25 man. There was no problem balancing the two sides because there was really only one way you could go.
    When Wrath came out, it was nice to do naxx as both 10 man and 25 man since it was a nostalgic experience to see a place that most had only heard of and had only seen from videos on Warcraftmovies. Ulduar and ICC could take the splitting of 10 man and 25 man becuase they had so many bosses that people some times went to 10 man to practice and then went on in 25 man to ''progress in raid''

    With cata, people no longer needs 25 man to do raiding nor to get the best gear, so it is here things went wrong.

    Now the mop prebeta is out and i really hope that first of all, THEY FIX LFR!! many says that its not working and some say it is. i don't care what the arguments are, becuase they all have the same problem. With LFR people are getting tired more and more of an instance, so lets just hope they keep the LFR system to 1 place in MOP

    I think the cure for people QQing over the current raid system, is to simple get back the Wrath or TBC model back and implement it. It would fix many of the things that people are tired of, and it would give blizzard a chance to get a new start on a projekt that i think, has gone completely wrong

    with love FurryFang :-:
    Your reasoning is that the game should be making 25 mans more attractive so that more people would be doing what you like best. There's no sense in that.

    Cataclysm has shown that when people have the choice, in most cases they prefer 10 man. And still it isn't stopping your from doing your 25 mans. You're not missing out on gear or anything. What's your problem?

  12. #12
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmloos View Post
    Blizzard won't kill off 10 man raiding again. They are not that stupid. Going back to WOTLK would do just that.
    What?

    Maybe it was just the EU servers I play on but 25man guilds had a bit of a problem recruiting enough people unless they were ridiculously well established because people decided they could raid 10man heroics and get same ilvl gear as raiding 25man normals with intent to go to heroic. If anything, it was the opposite, and 25man raiding dropped.

  13. #13
    I like both of them. but i prefer 10m. Its easier 2 get going i get to know my raiders a lot better and just generally have a better time... In 25m people can hide to easy and be carried.. 10m on some fights if 1 person fucks up.. there goes ur raid... OR if 1 person from a 10m guild doesnt show up and lets say its the tank... the raid could be cancelled then and there

    In short both 10 and 25 have good and bad aspects and both deserve to have there own little piece of the raiding pie
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    General George S Patton

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamCast View Post
    Sub numbers kept on increasing when 25 man raiding was the pinnacle, as soon as they switched to 10man being equal it went down. Coincidence?
    Think you might have that the wrong way round. People could have been switched to 10 man because of sub numbers decreasing so they weren't guaranteed to have a 25 man every week.

  15. #15
    I like 10 man. It takes 10 good players to progress through heroics, no one can be carried. Makes for a closer group of friends, and a tighter group. The only bad part I feel right now about 10 mans is the loot. For example 18 h morchok kills and no str wrists, 15 h ultraxion and no str ring/trinket. In 25, even tho there are more people, it's more likely your item will drop.

    It's also good for the people with low end computers. If anything they should balance the raids to 20m/10m or 30m/15m.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2012-04-15 at 09:49 AM.

  16. #16
    I honestly have no idea why people complain about 25 or 10 man raids... do what you want...if you want 25 man raids..run 25 man raids, if you want 10 man raids...well you get the picture...

    This is a dead topic, Blizz will not remove or change 10 or 25 mans. At least not for this xpac. and I don't for see it changing in later xpac's.

    -Jeric

  17. #17
    Here is what I dont get:

    25 Man raiding, needs 25 people to be able to get through the raid.

    10 Man raiding, needs 10 people to be able to get through the raid.

    The problem is they give the same loot, thats the PROBLEM. The 10man needs less people so it should reward less loots(worse loots).

    Its just like casuals, they only get rewarded with Normal gear while lots of guild are i.e 8/8 HC in DS. Takes casuals weeks and months to beat last boss on normal and start off with heroics.

    If you can't raid 25, than you're not as hard-core as 25mans. This is why 10 man is killing 25 mans. And when 25 mans die(or almost die out) alot of raiders will quit. For example if I wont be able to get any 25 guilds anymore, I am one of them. I HATE 10 mans, so I would definitely quit.

    This is just like giving casuals who raid 2 hours a week the same progress like Blood legion, Paragon, Ensidia, Vodka, Kin Raiders etc..

    If you don't want to raid 25 mans, fine than you're not as hardcore as them and can raid 10 mans with abit less rewarding loot and slightly easier raid.

    Else blizzard is just gonna have to allow casuals who play 2-3 hours a week to get the same progress as top guilds, because it is basically the same....

  18. #18
    The Patient Daleness's Avatar
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    As a 10man raider I would not wanna go back to the ICC model, having to get into a pug 25man because some items just dropped in
    the 25man version just sucked. What I do want is seperate achievments, that would be logical and give ppl something.

    But you so called 25m raiders that say the ilvl should be higher in 25m are just loot whores.
    Woho! post count +1!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Maggibesti View Post
    Here is what I dont get:

    25 Man raiding, needs 25 people to be able to get through the raid.

    10 Man raiding, needs 10 people to be able to get through the raid.

    The problem is they give the same loot, thats the PROBLEM. The 10man needs less people so it should reward less loots(worse loots).

    Its just like casuals, they only get rewarded with Normal gear while lots of guild are i.e 8/8 HC in DS. Takes casuals weeks and months to beat last boss on normal and start off with heroics.

    If you can't raid 25, than you're not as hard-core as 25mans. This is why 10 man is killing 25 mans. And when 25 mans die(or almost die out) alot of raiders will quit. For example if I wont be able to get any 25 guilds anymore, I am one of them. I HATE 10 mans, so I would definitely quit.

    This is just like giving casuals who raid 2 hours a week the same progress like Blood legion, Paragon, Ensidia, Vodka, Kin Raiders etc..

    If you don't want to raid 25 mans, fine than you're not as hardcore as them and can raid 10 mans with abit less rewarding loot and slightly easier raid.

    Else blizzard is just gonna have to allow casuals who play 2-3 hours a week to get the same progress as top guilds, because it is basically the same....
    False, same difficulty, same loot needed. Equal amount of loot per person needed. You are not more hardcore or skilled than 10-man raider. You just brought more friends.

    I HATE 25 mans... don't force me to run your format and I won't force you to run my format

  20. #20
    I like 10mans and I do not care that after 6 years you feel less raiding. It is ok now, 25hc mans are still considered the elite raid. If less people play 25, it just means they prefer not to play it. That is it. Now they ve got an opportunity.
    Do not force other ppl to play your raid style/size.
    Last edited by 9Royalwolf6; 2012-04-15 at 10:04 AM.

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