Do you think that it's possible GW2 may not become the new standard for MMOs?

[Acquiesce of Telara]

That's a pretty great post, Fencers. "Supporting a philosophy" is a ridiculously accurate description.

[jibbyjackjoe]

It is indeed hard to survive in the MMO-market. And that market is dominated by a follow-the-leader mentality. Maybe Guild Wars 2 is just too different. Or people aren't truly willing to leave WoW/try something new.

However, Guild Wars 2 comes at an extremely opportune moment (speaking currently, things can change, but it doesn't seem likely). And it isn't too different, in my opinion. And the fact that it doesn't have a subscription makes it less of an investment, so people are probably more likely to try it out.

It's one of a few very important phenomenons to address: how a subscription based mmo makes us feel and why it makes us feel that way.

You're paying $15 a month, so psychology may be able to show that you have a need to log on and only play this one game. I know I've experienced it. Right now, I have skyward sword sitting in my wii. I'm a rabid Zelda fan, but I haven't wanted to pick it up in a while and I'm not very far. What do I play instead? Wow. What am I doing in wow right now? I'm farming herbs to level my alts inscription.

I mean, really?! Why am I doing that. Farming is the worst.

GW2 there are no sub fees, only micro transactions with no way to buy power. It's always been like that.

I'm not saying I think wows model is wrong. Clearly, it's the winner so far. But, eventually the cassette tape gave way to the cd which is now giving way to digital media.

I highly suggest people go watch some extra creditz from penny arcade. Those guyss analysis on the video game market blow my mind.

[Speedy92286]

There has been other viable MMOs. Players haven't supported them.

This. I still believe to this day that WAR is better than WoW in many ways, especially PvP. I am upset that it never took off but what can you do? This is just one example. WAR still has activity. Not much, but enough to keep the game running. I am sure RIFT and Aion will be around for years to come, but will probably never reach the subscribers WoW has.

WoW is extremely accessible. It is very easy to get to level cap, which is very easy but can take some players time to do so. Much like any other game, many people will not pay for the game that is not triple A. Is WoW triple A? Not really but it is a reputation so many people will try WoW out as their first MMO. Then, like my girlfriend, will most likely never leave it for a different MMO.

Guild Wars 2, even if it is amazing, may not change the MMO genre in anyway. It can be extremely fun, accessible and free to play, but can still never truly take off the ground if the players do not support it. If the majority of the MMO player base still plays WoW, then other companies trying to get in on a piece of the MMO pie then they will have to take what has made WoW a success and try to incorporate it into their game. Anet is very ambitious in their goals, but even if we on the Guild Wars 2 forums and the guru forums agree that GW2's model is superior(not everyone is going to agree, but lets for the sake of argument say that we all agree), it means nothing if only 200,000 people "vote with their dollars" as Totalbiscuit has said on numerous occasions.

If SWTOR does well, then WoW will have competition at its own game. If Guild Wars 2 does well, it has a very different kind of MMO to contend with. Unless Guild Wars 2 can get as popular as WoW, or become the fabled WoW killer, then yes, the GW2 model may become the standard. However, I do not see this happening.

[Blufossa]

This. I still believe to this day that WAR is better than WoW in many ways, especially PvP. I am upset that it never took off but what can you do? This is just one example. WAR still has activity. Not much, but enough to keep the game running. I am sure RIFT and Aion will be around for years to come, but will probably never reach the subscribers WoW has.

WoW is extremely accessible. It is very easy to get to level cap, which is very easy but can take some players time to do so. Much like any other game, many people will not pay for the game that is not triple A. Is WoW triple A? Not really but it is a reputation so many people will try WoW out as their first MMO. Then, like my girlfriend, will most likely never leave it for a different MMO.

Guild Wars 2, even if it is amazing, may not change the MMO genre in anyway. It can be extremely fun, accessible and free to play, but can still never truly take off the ground if the players do not support it. If the majority of the MMO player base still plays WoW, then other companies trying to get in on a piece of the MMO pie then they will have to take what has made WoW a success and try to incorporate it into their game. Anet is very ambitious in their goals, but even if we on the Guild Wars 2 forums and the guru forums agree that GW2's model is superior(not everyone is going to agree, but lets for the sake of argument say that we all agree), it means nothing if only 200,000 people "vote with their dollars" as Totalbiscuit has said on numerous occasions.

If SWTOR does well, then WoW will have competition at its own game. If Guild Wars 2 does well, it has a very different kind of MMO to contend with. Unless Guild Wars 2 can get as popular as WoW, or become the fabled WoW killer, then yes, the GW2 model may become the standard. However, I do not see this happening.

More or less this.

Plus I'll still be playing WoW with friends who don't want to leave for their own reasons or don't have the best computers or whatever. Plus I love to play WoW. I loved it in 2004 and I still love it come 2012.

[Fencers]

That's the beauty of GW1/2-- you aren't shackled to the game for the rest of your MMO life. Jump in, jump out and have fun.

[Deleted]

While Guild Wars 2 may not become "the standard", it will definitely leave its mark for future MMORPG games.
And I think many players and companies will start to reconsider the necessity of monthly fees.
I think it's just stupid to pay monthly to have access to a video game.

[Speedy92286]

More or less this.

Plus I'll still be playing WoW with friends who don't want to leave for their own reasons or don't have the best computers or whatever. Plus I love to play WoW. I loved it in 2004 and I still love it come 2012.

And this is how I feel. And I have to agree with Fencers, that is sort of the reason why I like "free" games like GW2; I can play them when I feel like it.

[jayremy]

While Guild Wars 2 may not become "the standard", it will definitely leave its mark for future MMORPG games.
And I think many players and companies will start to reconsider the necessity of monthly fees.
I think it's just stupid to pay monthly to have access to a video game.

Monthly fees absolutely don't bother me, I just want to get out of hotkey+mashing+target based gameplay and a couple of other trends people have accepted and done with WoW and on. Something like enjoying the game and having a fair challenge from level 1 on even with the same experience you would get "end-game" all throughout the game.

I like it when games don't have any pay-to-win feel to it and has some sort of sub option that gets you all a non-sub could, I think LOTRO does this.

[Mif]

Monthly fees absolutely don't bother me

I don't hate sub fees because I can't afford $15, or mind paying for a service.
I hate sub fees because developers invariably resort to skinner box tactics and long grinds to make sure you keep playing thus paying.
So instead of making a fun game that enriches your spare time, they make a game that tries to get you addicted to repetitive boring tasks.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

[Fencers]

The skinner box model in gaming isn't a bad gimmick... provided the actions are fun and engaging. Most often, they aren't though. Ehhh.

[Malthurius]

It all depends on the success of the game.

If GW2 flops, it's of course not going to become a standard of any sort
If it hits the 'OK' range of Rift and other MMOs that are successful but not 'WoW' level of popularity you can see some aspects of it's design become standard for future MMO development.
If it becomes the next WoW (Highly unlikely, but possible) then you can expect it to become the measuring stick for all future games in the genre.

Publishers are going to go with what works, and that determines some part of video game standards.

[theredviola]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/epi...vs.-aesthetics

I LOVE Extra Creditz. I've followed him since he put his first video up on youtube. They do some truly amazing work and research.

[hellar]

Probably not. I think they are getting close, and gw2 has a lot of new ideas that mmo's after it should and will put in their game. I think a "new mmo standards" game can be made. It would just take many years to perfect, and developers dont want to take to time to do it. I believe every mmo has a falt, that if they would have held the release date and perfected it, it could have been a game changer. I think gw2 wont focus on pleasing the pve field enough, while wow hasent done a good job at balancing the pvp field.

[Purple]

I really don't know about GW2 being a new standard, or not, but I know that the monthly fee model is by no means the standard anymore. Free to Play, cash shop, models have been far more numerous for some time now, it's not even something new - a model so successful that failing monthly fee MMOs have adopted the model, and suddenly met with success that their monthly fee incarnations never saw.

[Ynna]

Guild Wars 2, even if it is amazing, may not change the MMO genre in anyway. It can be extremely fun, accessible and free to play, but can still never truly take off the ground if the players do not support it. If the majority of the MMO player base still plays WoW, then other companies trying to get in on a piece of the MMO pie then they will have to take what has made WoW a success and try to incorporate it into their game. Anet is very ambitious in their goals, but even if we on the Guild Wars 2 forums and the guru forums agree that GW2's model is superior(not everyone is going to agree, but lets for the sake of argument say that we all agree), it means nothing if only 200,000 people "vote with their dollars" as Totalbiscuit has said on numerous occasions.

Well, Guild Wars 2, as I said above, seems to come at a most opportune moment. A lot of people are feeling like WoW is dying (not saying it is, let's not start that) and are looking for something new. The two alternatives are The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2, and the SWTOR is WoW with a Star Wars look (in how it plays, more or less). Guild Wars 2 campaign has often shown that it is different to WoW. If the game can gain enough momentum, it might become a respectable player on the MMO-market, and the possibility of that momentum is certainly present.

I don't hate sub fees because I can't afford $15, or mind paying for a service.
I hate sub fees because developers invariably resort to skinner box tactics and long grinds to make sure you keep playing thus paying.
So instead of making a fun game that enriches your spare time, they make a game that tries to get you addicted to repetitive boring tasks.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

You sure like linking Extra Credits, don't you? Well, the more attention they get, the better. Maybe we'll get a generation of smart gamers .

[Deleted]

GW2
-80 levels of fun dynamic events
-Only have to buy 1 box
-No monthly fee

But GW2 might have 5 boxes after 7 years, right?

[Mif]

Maybe we'll get a generation of smart gamers .

Sadly intelligence in general seems to be trending downwards

---------- Post added 2011-12-18 at 10:59 PM ----------

But GW2 might have 5 boxes after 7 years, right?

Wow will have 10

But yeah it's a bad point when "new standard" is the topic. I went off on a tangent when I wrote that post, and cut out 80% of it to try and make it relevant to the thread, and that probably should of gone too.

[Borzo]

The skinner box model in gaming isn't a bad gimmick... provided the actions are fun and engaging. Most often, they aren't though. Ehhh.

If a game is fun and engaging, developers wouldn't have to rely on explicit cheap skinner box tricks.

[Questar]

regardless of gw2's success, i believe future mmos will replicate/borrow a lot of the features in gw2. innovation is innovation. in a way, gw2 took rift's rifts and turned them into DEs. if it was not intentional, then this is a case of convergent evolution in mmos. both developers came to the conclusion of the greatness of dynamic events independently.
other innovations include the skill bars, absence of the holy trinity, collision-avoidance combat.

i dont see swtor as an innovative mmorpg... it is wow in a different skin for sw fans imho. sw fans will keep the game going so they can live in the sw world. its a service that fulfills a niche.

what i can see happening is wow2 that drops all the development baggage of wow and adopts a gw2-style set in the wow universe.
i m certain that for wow to take the next big step, it will go through what gw2 did: all of the above innovations plus some of its own and even the time-jump so wow can have a fresh yet familiar start.

what i also hope to see is a way to deal with excessive levels+stat inflation. levels and stats going to +10strength to +10000strength is ridiculous to me. i know some people feel that numbers are just numbers, and the increase in numbers makes players feel advancement and power. i think there is a limit where it goes from "i feel more powerful" to "i m numb to these large numbers".
this is a whole other discussion.

[Merendel]

regardless of gw2's success, i believe future mmos will replicate/borrow a lot of the features in gw2. innovation is innovation. in a way, gw2 took rift's rifts and turned them into DEs. if it was not intentional, then this is a case of convergent evolution in mmos. both developers came to the conclusion of the greatness of dynamic events independently.

Its more a case of parallel evolution as to the rift/DE design. If wikipedea is correct rift entered development about a year before GW2 did and if GW2 launches early next year will have launched a year before GW2. However there was not that much info released on either game early on. By the time we were hearing about the dynamic nature of rifts we were also hearing about DE's in GW2. Each's system was too well developed by the time the other anounced that they could not have coppied eachother. Both companies started with the idea of ways to make the world non static. My opinion is that GW2's approach is going to acomplish the goal better but time will tell.

I do think that GW2 will have many aspects of it that will be the new standard in MMO's. Not all perhaps but aspects of it are already makeing their mark. When blizcon was going on and MoP was announced I remember thinking that most of its feature list was riped right out out of GW2's list of innovations.