Dota, MOBA--I just don't get it

[Tsimp]

Imagine an hour long AV where you had to work closely with your team. You start off with no gear but with tower kills and player kills you got gold and could go back to the keep and buy gear and pots with it.

Wouldn't that be awesome?
I think so....

MOBA is pretty much like that.

[Djuntas]

Dont understand it either OP. Its gotten really big trough. I only tried DOTA in Warcraft III, but never did a full game. Just to booring. I do enjoy some other hero-games in Warcraft III trough

[Fencers]

Based on what I've read here--Balanced PVP without the MMORPG excess--they all sound really fun, yet again making me question what I'm missing. One of the things that really put me off of League of Legends was the fact that there only seemed to be one arena to fight in, with one reskin of that arena. Do any other games of the type feature any sort of variety of maps? For tournament play I definitely understand keeping things tightly controlled, but for at-home play I'd definitely start craving a change of location from time to time.

There are other maps within League of Legends. But the gameplay doesn't really support a variety of maps. A good example of this in my opinion would be; Dominion. Where the map/objective and game-style are fantastic! But the mechanical workings of certain heroes doesn't always work out so well in Dominion.

The way the game(s) function is closely tied to the existence of that singular "main" map/game-style. So there tends to not be a lot of map variation because balancing is so delicate in a MOBA w/r/t the map.

[ImpTaimer]

Don't play Dota games (especially LoL) if you want to enjoy a specific character. You have to be willing to play other characters to benefit your team comp. Granted there's always gonna be that one selfish prick that only uses FoTM and expects everyone else to, you have more time to be prepared for it in these games because you don't (and shouldn't) invest a lot of time into one character.

Unless you play ranked, use the weekly lineup as an excuse to practice the characters you don't own yet.

But really guys... trying to imply these "newer" DoTA style games have more balanced PvP than MMOs is just naive.

"Fix old champions? Why bother!" *creates more characters with better versions of abilities that old champions have*

[kronpas]

Don't play Dota games (especially LoL) if you want to enjoy a specific character. You have to be willing to play other characters to benefit your team comp. Granted there's always gonna be that one selfish prick that only uses FoTM and expects everyone else to, you have more time to be prepared for it in these games because you don't (and shouldn't) invest a lot of time into one character.

Unless you play ranked, use the weekly lineup as an excuse to practice the characters you don't own yet.

But really guys... trying to imply these "newer" DoTA style games have more balanced PvP than MMOs is just naive.

"Fix old champions? Why bother!" *creates more characters with better versions of abilities that old champions have*

Nope. DotA DOES have pretty balanced hero pool, every hero has its counter, strength and weakness. Icefrog went great length to fix heroes from earlier era, even so far as to remade them completely. Dont know about HoN and LoL though.

[Halicia]

But really guys... trying to imply these "newer" DoTA style games have more balanced PvP than MMOs is just naive.

Eh, what people have been saying in this thread is that DOTA-style games are PURE-PvP realized in an mmorpg, not that they're any more or less balanced.

Balance in PvP design will always be a touchy subject, simply by design. Regardless of genre, be it FPS, RTS or RPG, the moment some weapon or tactic is determined to be even 0.0!% more viable, it will be used 99.9% of the time by skilled players. (except of course in the case of counters, but thats part of the effective-factor)

[inux94]

I've tried Dota, really enjoyed it like the other custom maps in Warcraft 3 like X-hero defense or Island Defense

LoL I enjoyed for a while, playing with 2 other friends I was the noob yet I had fun playing around with them. It's definately value you're getting when it's with friends.

[Deleted]

Honestly it seems like the kind of game that is fun if you have a good team vs a good team but as far as "casual" play and Esport events i can't see what ppl like at that kind of game ether.

[Deleted]

Well is realy fun just becuse you need huge pvp skills and good tactics also big team play.

First you need kill creeps to get gold and buy stuff, nxt you need push line and get rid of the opponents of the tower and destroy it and push line to end

[Rykin]

I felt the same way lazymangaka my friends were always trying to get me to play LoL but I just couldn't see the appeal, it was interesting reading this thread.

[Wildmoon]

Take WoWs PvP for instance.

Its such an imbalanced pile of shit with glaring problems and classes that have been at the top of the food chain for not only seasons; but YEARS. But that's an entirely different topic


I can sit on HoN for 30 minutes in a CM mode game and actually have some balanced FUN team based PvP with RPG elements and real tactics. It takes skill to juke, aim skills, know when to run, exploit fog of war. It's awesome.

About the person that claimed HoNs community is elitist(yes there is alot of douchebags on there).

I'm not an elitist but I played DotA on War3 way back near the beginning and I admit I raaaaage sometimes at feeders.

It only takes 1 person to ruin the game for everyone.

You know its not hard to play the tutorial and learn the basics. Sure I can forgive you for not knowing EVERY SINGLE HEROES abilities. But to not know that your rapidly diminishing health bar means you should run is just plain braindead.

/endrant YOOOOO!

All of dota games's balance is terrible too.

[PenguinChan]

All of dota games's balance is terrible too.

Balance is such a relative term as of late.

[kronpas]

Honestly it seems like the kind of game that is fun if you have a good team vs a good team but as far as "casual" play and Esport events i can't see what ppl like at that kind of game ether.

As long as you have a good team knowing what the F to do, you are guaranteed a good match regardless of win/lose. Thats why newer MOBA games have a match making system similar to WoW.

All of dota games's balance is terrible too.

Its well balanced in fact. Your hero is hard-countered by some other heroes doesnt mean it imbalanced. Care to elaborate your statement?

[Deleted]

Playing with friends (and I mean REALLY playing with them, I.E. help them in certain situations and use strategies together) and a different experience everytime I play because of different enemies is what keeps me playing these games.

[Dragoncurry]

OP let me lay it down for you. There are endless possibilities to the combinations that can be pulled off in team fights, and thinking up cool combos and doing cool shit where it's NEARLY DIFFERENT EVERY GAME (more or less), is a lot of fun. Certain heros also play in a intuitive kind of way and "getting away" is sometimes more intense than actually fighting, and heros like puck or bubbles can exemplify this.

On the other hand, carries which do the same thing every game (farm/kill), is also fun for CERTAIN types of players that like to straight up slay mother fuckers end game. Personally, I play a mix of carries, gankers, and support heros. It really depends on what you feel like playing and different heroes appeal to different people. Very rarely will you find a group of players that have the same favorite heros. That's the best part.

[Xalorith]

Because of the skill and teamwork the game requires. I play HoN and Dota with 2 of my friends, and its just feels awesome when you get that co-ordinated hook + munch combo with pudge/devo when your teammate knows exactly when to move out of the way and where to move to provide that awesome 2-player combo... Feels soooo gooood! I just love the skill shots in these games.

[Deleted]

Ive never understood the like for Dota either i find it incredibly boring and repetitive and since it became the most played map in wc3 it almost killed of any TD games and other maps or well atleast they where harder to find so me and a friend have learned to despise dota somehow.

[Deleted]

If you're used to playing easy games like WoW, then Heroes of Newerth/Dota type of game is gonna require some adapting.

[Wildmoon]

As long as you have a good team knowing what the F to do, you are guaranteed a good match regardless of win/lose. Thats why newer MOBA games have a match making system similar to WoW.



Its well balanced in fact. Your hero is hard-countered by some other heroes doesnt mean it imbalanced. Care to elaborate your statement?

Balanced game doesn't need to be adjusted balance issue in game every patch. What all of Dota games's developers are doing right now is react to metagame. If people think this is balance that they want then yes it's balance.

[Typhron]

It is, admittedly, not for everyone. And that is not meant to sound deragatory. People just have different styles of games that they like and hate, and dota-style games are like strawberry. Yeah, that makes sense.

Balanced game doesn't need to be adjusted balance issue in game every patch. What all of Dota games's developers are doing right now is react to metagame. If people think this is balance that they want then yes it's balance.

In that sense I hope you're not defending WoW's pvp in it's current (declining?) state. As someone said earlier, and even to some outside observers, it's a complete mess.

If responding to the metagame furthers you away from that kind of balance, that shit should be mandatory.