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  1. #1

    4.3 DK DPS Boss Tips

    Updated - 19/12/2011.
    Mod Edit: Will remain stickied until 4.4 or the content is no longer relevant

    It seems that lately, people in this forum are a bit sleepy .
    Seeing the Warrior forums, I thought it might be a nice idea to do something similar here to spice things up.

    In this thread I'll try to share encounter-specific DPS tips I've either came up with or found on various sites such as Wowhead, EJs, etc, and hopefully others will share their own tips for me to update this main post often.
    Hoping for HC encounter tips mainly, but of course any are welcome, even if you think they are obvious, to some they might be helpful.

    Please note, I'm not trying to teach anyone how to play, just hoping to get a constructive discussion going (And hopefully learn a thing or two myself). Mainly made this post to host everyone's ideas.

    Please state in your post (should it be relevant):
    • Unholy or Frost (DW/2H).
    • Heroic or Normal.
    • 10 or 25.

    -----------


    General Tips
    • [Frost] - Due to "AOE cap" mechanic, the more mobs there are (Starting from 10+) the more HB damage is diminished.
      According to a post made by Shiira an AOE-capped HB equals roughly 84 Pestilenced Blood Plague ticks.
      Calculate according to how many mobs there are and how long they usually last, for example, for Pestilence to be worth it on 20 mobs you need them to take more than 4 ticks which means they need to live for more than 12 seconds.
      After you use Pestilence go back to normal AOE priority.
    • [Frost] - General AOE - Try to time 2set/4set t13 procs right before AOE phases.
    • [Unholy] - [Anti-Magic Zone] - Do not be fooled by the tooltip to think it will only absorb the stated amount of damage. In reality, it will first absorb 75% of the next magical attack, and only THEN, if the amount absorbed exceeded the stated amount, it will vanish. Therefore, it works best when soaking single high damage attacks, and fails miserably soaking multiple low damage attacks. Be a good raider and coordinate using it with your healers/raid leader.


    Morchok

    • It is possible to stay in his [Black Blood of the Earth] completely, even in HC difficulty, no healing required (to not die - though you will be taking a bit of damage). Wait for 2 stacks then pop AMS (I have read that it is possible to go for 3, when I tried it I died). Would prevent the debuff from further stacking and absorb current damage.

      Note - [Black Blood of the Earth] does not have a range limit. Therefore, since both Morchok and Kohcrom are casting it, you need to LOS the other boss you are not DPSing when doing this, otherwise you'll rapidly accumulate many stacks and still die.
    • [Unholy] - Use AMZ/AMS during [Resonating Crystal] explosion.


    Warlord Zon'ozz
    • You can steal [Sludge Spew] (For 25m HC. For 10m HC - [Sludge Spew]) using Dark Simulacrum on Flail of Go'rath. Especially important for Unholy as it scales with its Mastery.
    • [Unholy] - It is possible to use AMZ for [Void Diffusion] (Shortly before it hits the raid), or perhaps if healers are having hard time during [Black Blood of Go'rath] (Naturally since less players are stacked it would be less efficient).
    • As per usual, for RP gain (Unholy) and defensive CD, use AMS during high damage phases ([Void Diffusion], during [Black Blood of Go'rath] or even to soak [Disrupting Shadows] should your guild decide to heal through it).


    Yor'sahj the Unsleeping

    • [Frost - 25 man] - Due to large number of targets during [Black Blood of Shu'ma] it might be worth casting D&D and spreading both diseases (Mainly HC difficulty as those mobs are up for longer than normal). This depends on how many adds it summons and how long they are usually alive in your raids. Read the General Tips section to decide.
      Also try to time double Rime (2-set) and [Runic Mastery] (4-set) procs shortly before/during that phase.
    • AMS/AMZ during heavy raid damage (Mmm RP!) such as Glowing/Crimson Blood of Shu'ma.


    Hagara the Stormbinder
    • You can steal [Shattered Ice] using Dark Simulacrum. Hagara usually casts it after a [Focused Assault] so get ready to use DS while she's casting [Shattered Ice] (1.4 seconds cast). Especially important for Frost as it scales with its Mastery.
    • Time CDs for after each "transition" phase. She will take increased damage for 15 seconds due to [Feedback]. Obviously don't delay short CDs too long.
    • During [Frozen Tempest] phase, it is possible to get inside the bubble without getting slowed (Taking 25% of the damage from [Watery Entrenchment], which is 3.75% of maximum HP every second) using AMS. For higher boss uptime, AMS and get in the bubble a few seconds before the last [Binding Crystal] is down.


    Ultraxion
    • When you use [Heroic Will] to avoid [Hour of Twilight] or [Fading Light] you get sent to the normal realm, unable to attack, cast spells, or move. It is still possible to use Outbreak to refresh your diseases.
    • If you dont want to click your extra button (Personally use my interrupt keybind) Macro:
      Code:
      /click ExtraActionButton1


    Warmaster Blackhorn


    Spine of Deathwing
    • AMS for RP gain (Unholy) and defensive CD during [Grasping Tendrils] and before the Hideous Amalgamation explosion.
    • [Unholy] - Use AMZ when the raid stacks for a roll on [Grasping Tendrils]
    • [Frost] Army on the final tendon before the plate is up after potioning or Pillar of Frost for an extra burst of dps


    Madness of Deathwing
    • AMS for RP gain (Unholy) and defensive CD during heavy damage phases, such as - [Elementium Bolt], [Blistering Tentacle], or during phase 2 - [Corrupted Blood] when Deathwing's HP is low.
    • [Unholy] - AMZ [Elementium Bolt] impact, if timed correctly (Shortly before the impact), should absorb a lot more than the usual ~40k.
    • [Blistering Tentacle]s are immune to AOE. HB will only effect the [Blistering Tentacle] you're targeting (And of course Deathwing and any other non-AOE-immune mobs in range).
    • Dismissing your ghoul pet while in the air will respawn it on landing. Either do so by right click ghoul portrait -> dismiss pet or the use of a simple macro: /script PetDismiss()


    -----------

    Any feedback is welcome, if I listed something wrong please do correct me so I can update this post. And please do post your own little tricks or things you heard of somewhere else. Let the sharing begin!
    Last edited by Nyanmaru; 2012-04-04 at 09:18 PM.
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  2. #2
    I knew about the Morchok but I didn't know about the Shattered Ice DS steal. Thanks =)

  3. #3
    hopefully this is common sense but on spine save CDs for the tendons, unholy can use ams for some nice rp when you stand in the pores during a roll

    on Madness an AMZ will absorb almost all of the elementium bolt impact

  4. #4
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    As I mentioned in the Elitist Jerks, Unholy thread. During Ultraxion if you are about to have your diseases drop off and have Hour of Twilight or Fading Light you can cask Outbreak in both the Twilight Realm and Normal Realm. It could be a bug but even though the boss is faded out into the other realm this single ability can still be cast on Ultraxion.

  5. #5
    Ack knew I forgot something!
    Will update it after raid
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  6. #6
    Man this is kind of awkward...

    Anyway, back to the shattered ice DS, is it possible to have one saved for the crystals? Or is the time between her casting it and ice phase too long? We got H Hagara down this week but it would be nice to nearly KO one by myself...

  7. #7
    On Madness of Deathwing, if you are Passing trough a platform with a tentacle on it (from green to red, trough yellow) you can apply your diseases while you are walking. Me and a shadow priest can take up to 3% free damage just by doing this.

    Not that gamechanging but useful =)
    Last edited by zevah; 2011-12-18 at 09:16 PM.

  8. #8
    On 10n for Ultraxion, 1 person needs to stay behind during hour of twilight to avoid Ultra freaking out and killing everyone. This normally hits for 300k damage, basically an insta kill. My question is that because hour of twilight is a magical attack, couldn't a DK pop AMS at the same time you'd normally pop the extra action button and mitigate that damage to half your HP? Does Mirror of Broken Images stack with AMS to help mitigate that even further? Has anyone tried either?

  9. #9
    At warmaster you should be using a mouseover macro for howling blast to keep up 4% physical on the drakes.

    You can hit the drakes in the air before they drop their adds off.

    At madness on kalecgos' platform there is a rock at the back. Get a couple of melee on the rock so when they get targeted for crush it doesn't hit anyone else.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2011-12-18 at 09:51 PM.

  10. #10
    Good thread, this deserves a sticky if we can keep it updated.

    As stated:

    Madness; AMZ will absorb an entire elementium bolt blase.

    Madness; For Hemorage Pestilence onto the adds and howling blast them.
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  11. #11
    Heroic Warmaster Blackhorn: If you happen to be Unholy, be sure to AMZ an Onslaught on CD. This will prevent 75% of the damage on the raid, making it the best CD available.

    As for people suggesting Pestilence as Frost; don't do it. Pestilence is only better (on a per rune basis) than Howling Blast when your AoE is significantly diminished due to large amounts of enemies. (i.e 30+, which doesn't happen anywhere this tier)
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2011-12-18 at 10:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTN View Post
    Madness; For Hemorage Pestilence onto the adds and howling blast them.
    Pestilence is almost never worth it for frost, you need to get roughly 65 extra blood plague ticks to equal the damage of a howling blast on 7 targets.

    So if you spread blood plague to 6 extra targets then they need to take 11 ticks each from one pestilence.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2011-12-18 at 10:07 PM.

  13. #13
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    Awesome thread, I'm bookmarking it.
    Retired wow player after 7 years.
    IT Technician by trade.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayra View Post
    On 10n for Ultraxion, 1 person needs to stay behind during hour of twilight to avoid Ultra freaking out and killing everyone. This normally hits for 300k damage, basically an insta kill. My question is that because hour of twilight is a magical attack, couldn't a DK pop AMS at the same time you'd normally pop the extra action button and mitigate that damage to half your HP? Does Mirror of Broken Images stack with AMS to help mitigate that even further? Has anyone tried either?
    mirror won't affect it, its unresistable. to survive it with AMS, you'd need to have over 150k hp to not be oneshot with it up(as unholy, since its a 100% mitigate shield equal to you hp amount, for magical attacks, frost would need more, because they absorb less with their shield). its probably doable with AMZ, or maybe ICB/AMS, but i haven't tested it yet.

  15. #15
    Using AMS/IBF is best bet for Ultraxion. Shouldn't ever risk the timing of a heal going in being a second late and you have -200 hp to be able to absorb it. IBF brings it down to a respectable level of damage to be able to be eaten by AMS. AMZ also eats almost all of his sparks so it's a good CD to use every time it is up after about 20 seconds into the fight, but isn't needed if your healers are having no trouble at all.

    On Zon'ozz you can drop AMZ to absorb a ping pong bounce if needed, or as a tiny absorb of damage in his aoe phase. For unholy always save AMS for this phase as it's a ton of free DC's.

    Yor'sahj as Unholy always re-app your dots to him before running off to a blood, makes it so you don't have to re-app on way back, best bet is PS as running do a turn midair and IT to get both up. Also gargoyle can be left on him as moving off to a blood.

    Hagara you can AMS and run into her frost phase bubble, not taking any damage and be the first one to get any hits on her, extending the duration of your extra damage done to her. Just at the last second run off pop AMS and run into it straight at her. No need to switch off to kill ice either, just use pestilence and drop DnD (unholy) and you'll be doing plenty aoe damage while also dpsing boss. AMS for unholy with her ice spikes is helpfull, run off and tank it doing a loop, getting a lot of free DC's off and absorbing some damage for healers, just make sure you run back in before AMS wears off so that you don't get the attack speed debuff.

    Making a macro for death grip on Lootship will be helpfull, have it setup to target the sapper, then grip him. Makes finding the tiny guy in the madness of it all very simple and can save you ina pinch. When Goriona is leave voids on the ground, as Unholy it can be used for some free RP, getting you a decent amount of DC's off, sorta like how the lava was on Rag.

    On Spine using AMS during the roll's and then right before the plate is lifted up is best time to get free RP as Unholy. Will get you free DC's on the add, and then a free RP bar to pop gargoyle on the tendon. AMZ can be used for the roll also as it's a decent amount of aoe magic damage going out then.

    Madness keeping dot's on both the tentacle, and the corruption can help (as unholy). AMS pretty much all the time can get you free RP bar, and on last phase is positioned right you can spread dots onto the tentacles from his jaw, then dropping DnD on them also (while making it clip DW too) makes it so you don't even have to switch off until the larger adds are up.

    In general for Unholy a good thing to do is make macro's for your DC, PS, and FS to also make your ghoul use claw at the same time. Removes the worry of him ever having a full energy bar and squeezes all the attacks out of him possible. Will make it a tiny bit tough to ever get a stun off, but only time i've seen need to use that is on the sapper and even then he is slowed/stunned enough anyways so that your stun would just be a waste of energy.

    Oh god I wrote a lot o.O

    -edit
    All of this is based on Normal 25 man. But most can drag over into heroic.

  16. #16
    Those of you who are goblins and playing frost may have noticed that since 4.3 rocket jump sometimes doesn't work.

    Pillar of frost makes you immune to your own rocket jump now.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Seruketo View Post
    Man this is kind of awkward...
    Anyway, back to the shattered ice DS, is it possible to have one saved for the crystals? Or is the time between her casting it and ice phase too long? We got H Hagara down this week but it would be nice to nearly KO one by myself...
    Now that you mention it, Im not entirely certain. It seems the ability doesnt have any sort of CD, so I guess we'll have to test it next week. Though, I would assume for personal DPS its best to use it on CD rather than delay it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTN View Post
    Good thread, this deserves a sticky if we can keep it updated.
    As stated:
    Madness; AMZ will absorb an entire elementium bolt blase.
    Madness; For Hemorage Pestilence onto the adds and howling blast them.
    Thanks
    As others posted already, spreading diseases through Pestilence is hardly worth it for the bloods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    ...
    As for people suggesting Pestilence as Frost; don't do it. Pestilence is only better (on a per rune basis) than Howling Blast when your AoE is significantly diminished due to large amounts of enemies. (i.e 30+, which doesn't happen anywhere this tier)
    I posted this based on your post:
    [Frost] - Due to "AOE cap" mechanic, the more mobs there are (Starting from 10+) the more HB damage is diminished.
    Therefore, on around 30+ targets its considered a DPS increase to spread both diseases using pestilence, D&D and go back to normal AOE priority.
    Though I would like to know how you came up with this number and if you could show me any source just to make sure we're not spreading any misinformation here.
    Also I'm almost certain that with Black/Yellow goo on Yor'sahj HC you get more than 30 targets - do correct me if Im wrong.
    ----------

    Thanks everyone for the feedback and posts. Hoping to get some more HC specific (And of course normal ones are welcome as well) tricks for progress and many sexy ranks so keep the posts coming .

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 12:54 PM ----------

    PS
    Updated main post.
    Last edited by Lichborne; 2011-12-19 at 10:53 AM.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lichborne View Post
    Though I would like to know how you came up with this number and if you could show me any source just to make sure we're not spreading any misinformation here.
    In this post I demonstrated that the damage from an aoe capped howling blast is roughly equivalent to 90 pestilenced blood plague ticks in bis tier 12 gear. I made a mistake in the maths but it's still pretty close.

    So it can be worth using pestilence to spread diseases to as few as nine extra targets, but they need to live long enough to take eleven ticks for it to be worth it.

    If you can pestilence blood plague onto 30 extra targets then brilliant, they only need to live for four ticks for that to be worth it. Unfortunately that situation doesn't exist in current content.


    edit: I think I'll redo the maths and correctly this time.

    23404 average hb damage on single targets, but that's with razorice so 21276 without it. One target taking full razoriced damage and nine taking half non razoriced damage, so 119406 average aoe capped hb damage in t12 bis. This is all from simcraft by the way.

    2850 full damage blood plague ticks, so 1425 pestilenced blood plague ticks.

    So an aoe capped howling blast is roughly 84 pestilenced blood plague ticks. This changes the break even points slightly but it's still pretty close.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2011-12-19 at 11:09 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    In this post I demonstrated that the damage from an aoe capped howling blast is roughly equivalent to 90 pestilenced blood plague ticks in bis tier 12 gear. I made a mistake in the maths but it's still pretty close.
    So it can be worth using pestilence to spread diseases to as few as nine extra targets, but they need to live long enough to take eleven ticks for it to be worth it.
    If you can pestilence blood plague onto 30 extra targets then brilliant, they only need to live for four ticks for that to be worth it. Unfortunately that situation doesn't exist in current content.
    Ah, very nice, thanks .
    Still wondering though, how many adds are summoned during black ooze phase (Assuming with yellow its double) as I was not able to find this information yet.
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  20. #20
    My ghoul keeps dying during Hagara and Madness. I can partially fix this by having him Follow just prior to intermissions on Hagara and before switching plataforms on Madness.

    I'd still recommend Frost for these fights and Spine.
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