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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    Don't forget that all raiding brings is a gear treadmill which I hope I never have to see in GW2.
    raiding has nothing to do with the gear treadmill. you experience that from lvl 1 to 85 while i doubt you do any raids during your leveling.
    just because bliz chose to use raids as a base for high-end gear progression doesn't mean it is/has to be this way in any other game.

    wonder why people fail to get this out of their heads.

  2. #102
    Warchief Cherrysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    @OP

    The things which are suppose to draw you back to GW2 is engaging gameplay.

    With no sub fees or necessary repetition tasks, GW2 banks on two factors: immediate accessibility via pick-up n' go gameplay 2. expansion packs.

    By their own admission, GW2 devs say they don't aim to replace traditional MMOs (like Warcraft). They mean to create an MMO you can play as you wish alongside your sub MMO or play totally in of itself.

    $60 for Skyrim = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.
    $60 for Guild Wars 2 = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.
    Exactly for me personally i quit WoW to play Tor and will also play GW2, depending on how GW2 actually is, i will either play both in harmony or will quit Tor for GW2, only time will tell, but for now i like the fact that i will be able to sub one and not the other. Win , win really.

    As for GW2 Gameplay it is totally dynamic with zone events, questing, storyline paths, etc and so on, i really cant see anyone getting bored even with no end game per say.

  3. #103
    I just want to add...

    That quote from ghostcrawler about getting the online community to engage in intelligent debate being a tall order...

    I almost pity him for having to constantly engage in the puerile rantings of wow's dominant community, rather than the great one that, by way of the evidence of great threads such as this one, GW2 is going to have.

    This thread has reassured me about some of the misgivings I myself have been having. As so many of the other threads have done. I'm a long-time RPG gamer, of like 20 years...from the earliest time when such games were possible. I'm all aquiver about the amazing potential of this game, and how it seems to be genuinely trying to offer what gamers like me want (obviously, because I represent the epitome of gamers' dreams )

    By the by.....that guru site sucks. Keep it up here! We need to make an army of Asura's, storm their domain and wipe their digitized elitism from the face of the interworld so that Tyria isn't infected.

    Toodles.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    I just want to add...

    That quote from ghostcrawler about getting the online community to engage in intelligent debate being a tall order...

    I almost pity him for having to constantly engage in the puerile rantings of wow's dominant community, rather than the great one that, by way of the evidence of great threads such as this one, GW2 is going to have.

    This thread has reassured me about some of the misgivings I myself have been having. As so many of the other threads have done. I'm a long-time RPG gamer, of like 20 years...from the earliest time when such games were possible. I'm all aquiver about the amazing potential of this game, and how it seems to be genuinely trying to offer what gamers like me want (obviously, because I represent the epitome of gamers' dreams )

    By the by.....that guru site sucks. Keep it up here! We need to make an army of Asura's, storm their domain and wipe their digitized elitism from the face of the interworld so that Tyria isn't infected.

    Toodles.
    Pink asura here, ready to join up for the mission =)

  5. #105
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I did. It's totally up to individual players in how/when they get tired of a given content tier or particular zone. There obviously are tons of players enjoying themselves playing the game even if they ran ZG x100, they are having principally, fun. Which is no worse than running a GW 1 or 2 mission you've beaten a x110 before for... fun.

    Warcraft is pretty broad in it's appeal. When you run out of stuff to do [doubtful] or simply are tired of the same old same old- play something else.

    We aren't obligated to play these MMOs everyday. I don't. Many other players as well. Yet I never run out of stuff I want to do or have the experience of playing marred.

    There isn't any greater a design choice in proposing, "Players will run these dungeons for fun & baubles" in GW2 vis-a-vis "Players will run these dungeons for fun & baubles till the next tier".

    Where Warcraft [specifically] often falters is in providing frequency of content. They have sped it up a bit to Blizz's credit. In a macro view, not all MMOs are so slow in providing new content.

    Not everyone may find ZG runs or PVP equally amusing, sure. Yet many do. The end goals are the same in both games: play for fun. They simply go about it structurally in different ways, not necessarily better or worse than each other.
    And then we'll come to the point where I said, in WoW you feel obligated to the same raid/dungeons over and over again, so you'll not fall behind and come 'gear worthless' and people won't run ZG 100x a day just for the funs, they do it so they can get a progress out of it. If you don't need anything from a dungeon, people wouldn't waste their time. If you would run ZG 100x for the funs without any notable reward, then you are the 1%.

    If you take a look at the WoW Community you'll see notable posts about how bored they are about the current content, that's because the old content has fallen into grace.

    I have 4 level 85's who doesn't need to grind dungeons anymore because they have better gear, there is no reason for me to run those dungeons, because they are not fun anymore, and I speak for myself on this one. I've ran dozens of dungeons during WotLK and liked it, but after a while of the same content over and over again, you'll grow tired of it.

    The difference with GW2 is you aren't required to play Dungeons ever (aside from Personal Story's). If you don't want to play dungeons because you don't like it, you will be fine and you wouldn't be judged about how bad your gear is. That's what I mean with freedom inside of the fun, and more choice to it, so you can have fun in the game. Something a lot of people forget.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  6. #106
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    I just want to add...

    That quote from ghostcrawler about getting the online community to engage in intelligent debate being a tall order...

    I almost pity him for having to constantly engage in the puerile rantings of wow's dominant community
    I actually really enjoyed reading his posts back when he participated in the damage dealing forum. It taught me how to look at game issues from a design point of view, and express my opinions about mechanics and skills instead of just being yet another QQ'er. He even redesigned Blade Flurry and invented Restless Blades (best talent Combat Rogues ever got imo) based on a post I made. The funny thing was, part of my post suggested the removing of the haste bonus from Blade Blurry, which made the QQ'ers raving mad when it was implemented. It was a very unique insight into what the angry response personally feels like when the community doesn't understand why you're doing something.


    Also, add another Asura to the krewe
    Last edited by Mif; 2011-12-29 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    And then we'll come to the point where I said, in WoW you feel obligated to the same raid/dungeons over and over again, so you'll not fall behind and come 'gear worthless' and people won't run ZG 100x a day just for the funs, they do it so they can get a progress out of it. If you don't need anything from a dungeon, people wouldn't waste their time. If you would run ZG 100x for the funs without any notable reward, then you are the 1%.
    That is suppose to be the fun; running dungeons and so on to progress/improve for infinity. Trouble is people burn themselves out.

    If you take a look at the WoW Community you'll see notable posts about how bored they are about the current content, that's because the old content has fallen into grace.
    Be wary of vocal forums/blogs. By sheer percentage, they never accurately represent the whole. There are people who played WoW for all of 8 years and never read a post. Boredom sets in with any game; esp. one people have been playing for years.

    That is again, not indicative any faulty design. I do admit Warcraft is duller than it was 8 years ago. However, it's been 8 fucking years.

    The difference with GW2 is you aren't required to play Dungeons ever (aside from Personal Story's). If you don't want to play dungeons because you don't like it, you will be fine and you wouldn't be judged about how bad your gear is. That's what I mean with freedom inside of the fun, and more choice to it, so you can have fun in the game. Something a lot of people forget.
    Yes this is the awesome part I agree with. The rest is kinda, the opposite of awesome. ;D

  8. #108
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    That is suppose to be the fun; running dungeons and so on to progress/improve for infinity. Trouble is people burn themselves out.
    I just really cannot imagine that, people doing the same stuff over and over without any notable reward and still liking the content.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    I just really cannot imagine that, people doing the same stuff over and over without any notable reward and still liking the content.
    Whoa, whoa. We do get rewards. Also not everyone runs dungeons everyday or ad nausem.

    I am beyond geared at this point in Warcraft, ROM and Rift. There is content I can solo without my HP ever going under 50% in lower tiers. I can auto-attack certain bosses to death in these games. From time to time I still enjoy jumping into a 5 man dungeon and always have a blast raiding with my guild. There is no reward other than enjoyment of the game as I have almost everything for my class(es) until the next tier.

    Blizzard is quite slow in keeping pace, true. The other three MMOs I actively play... not at all.

    What part of burning yourself out don't you get?
    Last edited by Fencers; 2011-12-29 at 10:48 AM.

  10. #110
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Whoa, whoa. We do get rewards. Also not everyone runs dungeons everyday or ad nausem.

    I am beyond geared at this point in Warcraft, ROM and Rift. There is content I can solo without my HP ever going under 50% in lower tiers. I can auto-attack certain bosses to death in these games. From time to time I still enjoy jumping into a 5 man dungeon and always have a blast raiding with my guild. There is no reward other than enjoyment of the game as I have almost everything for my class(es) until the next tier.

    Blizzard is quite slow in keeping pace, true. The other three MMOs I actively play... not at all.

    What part of burning yourself out don't you get?
    Burning out? define burning out? I play 6-7 games aside from World of Warcraft, have a full time job and go out in the weekends, and still I have almost nothing to do in WoW that gives me the credit as a notable reward. But in defining the time spend in a game comparing WoW to GW2, WoW would have a lot less content to play then GW2 would, WoW has a lot more old content people can go through if they like, but it's not the same. WoW's end game starts at lv 85. GW2 starts at level 1. What part of differences about sorts of playable content don't you understand?

    I'm not saying what WoW has is bad, I'm not saying people who enjoys playing the same content over and over are doing the wrong thing, and if people enjoy their game, they should. Like I said before, you cannot compare apples to pears. I like them both, WoW's current content is just to narrow.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  11. #111
    [QUOTE=Mif;14843069]I actually really enjoyed reading his posts back when he participated in the damage dealing forum.

    Don't get me wrong He's great and I think he does a great job. I just sympathise with him I'm just sure he'd much rather not engage with ppl who cry like babies and throw all their toys out of the pram everytime a part of their replacement virtual lives changes.
    He should quit blizz and join a more fulfilling company

    And don't worry...my Asura Elementalist is cackling away madly at the back of my mind, planning all manner of wonderfully destructive things...mostly aimed at squirrels though. And certain gurus ofc...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Burning out? define burning out? I play 6-7 games aside from World of Warcraft, have a full time job and go out in the weekends, and still I have almost nothing to do in WoW that gives me the credit as a notable reward. But in defining the time spend in a game comparing WoW to GW2, WoW would have a lot less content to play then GW2 would, WoW has a lot more old content people can go through if they like, but it's not the same. WoW's end game starts at lv 85. GW2 starts at level 1. What part of differences about sorts of playable content don't you understand?

    I'm not saying what WoW has is bad, I'm not saying people who enjoys playing the same content over and over are doing the wrong thing, and if people enjoy their game, they should. Like I said before, you cannot compare apples to pears. I like them both, WoW's current content is just to narrow.
    Those differences aren't better than one or the other. Game A having 5 dungeons & 10 zones which scale ∞ is not any greater than Game B's 50 dungeons & 100 zones released ∞.

    Yes, I would say a game which has been played by many for 5+ years on average would become tiresome. Though it's highly dubious one actually has nothing to do so much as not all that is available to do is engaging to everyone equally. Familiarity breeds contempt as well.

    The problem is mostly with you, in the royal sense.

  13. #113
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Those differences aren't better than one or the other. Game A having 5 dungeons & 10 zones which scale ∞ is not any greater than Game B's 50 dungeons & 100 zones released ∞.

    Yes, I would say a game which has been played by many for 5+ years on average would become tiresome. Though it's highly dubious one actually has nothing to do so much as not all that is available to do is engaging to everyone equally. Familiarity breeds contempt as well.

    The problem is mostly with you, in the royal sense.
    The differences with dungeons is the "forced" part, people are being forced to play a content they might not like, so what's gaming about again?

    The problem is not just mostly with me, although I get what you're saying, take a look at their community and see how many people are done with stuff like it, yes ofc. there are people who doesn't show their opinion, yes there are people who are happy with content, and no I'm not bashing in on the game. All I'm saying is that Blizzard could get so much more out of this game and it's a shame/waste to see so little out of it, while they have a subscription fee.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  14. #114
    But that's kinda their thing; the dungeons / raids. Sorta playing the wrong game if you are not into that as those raids/dungeons are their "show pieces" so to speak.

  15. #115
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    But that's kinda their thing; the dungeons / raids. Sorta playing the wrong game if you are not into that as those raids/dungeons are their "show pieces" so to speak.
    As I've explained in a few posts back, I am enjoying this game, and I still play it. The reason why this game stays fun is my guild and a buddy of mine who plays it, without them I would be long gone.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    As I've explained in a few posts back, I am enjoying this game, and I still play it. The reason why this game stays fun is my guild and a buddy of mine who plays it, without them I would be long gone.
    I am not talking about you, specifically. I am speaking generally. Informal royal you.

  17. #117
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am not talking about you, specifically. I am speaking generally. Informal royal you.

    I'll requote myself The problem is not just mostly with me, although I get what you're saying. This is said in the same context.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

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