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  1. #1
    The Patient ShamanTankFTW's Avatar
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    There has to be something...

    Hey guys, just thought I would post up a concern I was having about the game. Now, to be up front, I have been extremely excited about this game and honestly cannot wait until it is released. The thing is, the more I think about the game the more I start to think of it's "pitfalls".

    Here's my question... Throughout the entire game, before max level, you are able to join up into any 'Battleground' (sorry, don't know thier term for it) and as you do you are instantly max level with the same gear/weapons/skills as everyone else. So, if there is really no 'End-Game' PvE, what is the point of reaching max level?

    I understand that there are higher level dungeons with multiple paths through them, and I am aware that there are Elite Events that will flow through the game regularly, but there has to be something major to keep me entertained and into the game; or at least a purposed other than cosmetics to reach lvl 80. I know, I'm sorry for adding another one of these types of posts onto the forumns but I really need some type of insight or motivation to get around this block I'm having about not even picking up the game. You see, right now I just don't get the point of it anymore. I know the game is to have fun, and I plan on having a blast if I play it, but even if they build the game around letting a person quit and comeback at thier leisure there HAS to be something that draws them back to it.

    *sigh*

    Please, just someone out there tell me it will all be ok and that they have yet to reveal the super-cool end game stuff...

    ------------Edit Below-------------

    Alright, I think that this thread has finally run it's course. I would like to thank everyone who has posted in here for attempting to answer my questions and ease my mind.

    I can truthfully say that I am even more so looking forward to this game. Not because it may not have what I may have been looking for, but because of the reactions and helpfulness of the people that have responded. I have never met a better group of individuals who tried to explain to me certain aspects of a game without trying to berrate or insult me. And for that I thank all of you.

    Things that I have learned/are more interested because of this thread:

    -It may not have End-Game raiding, but it will have organization/strategies involved enough to sate my thirst
    -Outdoor Elite DE's may not have the amount of organization I wish it to have, but it will promote server comraderie
    -For someone like me who enjoys implementing tactics in thier fights sees thier Dungeons falling short, then I have PvP to look forward to
    -This game is going to have one hell of a community

    Again, thank you to everyone who has helped me out, I look forward to seeing most of you all in-game.
    Last edited by ShamanTankFTW; 2011-12-20 at 01:50 AM.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamanTankFTW View Post
    So, if there is really no 'End-Game' PvE, what is the point of reaching max level?
    Fun. Strange concept I know, playing a video game for enjoyment.

    End game raiding solely exists to keep you busy so you'll continue to pay your $15 every month.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    Fun. Strange concept I know, playing a video game for enjoyment.

    End game raiding solely exists to keep you busy so you'll continue to pay your $15 every month.
    Some people enjoy raiding.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Some people enjoy raiding.
    I can't imagine ever having fun raiding personally. There's nothing fun about being at the beck and call of a guild and then dealing with 9 or 24 other people's screwups during the fight. Entirely my opinion of course.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Some people enjoy raiding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkenaw View Post
    I can't imagine ever having fun raiding personally. There's nothing fun about being at the beck and call of a guild and then dealing with 9 or 24 other people's screwups during the fight. Entirely my opinion of course.
    I enjoy the new LFR tool Blizzard has implemented. So far I have yet to run into a really really bad group. I find it amazing I can even kill an endgame boss now, because my guild only consists of me, my hubby, and close friends who pop in and out.

    But raiding aside, I'll be more for Character Story and hopefully some good RP in GW2. I love D&D, and so this will be a better chance for me to have some fun.
    Last edited by Mighty Blue Bear; 2011-12-19 at 05:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grugmuc View Post
    I enjoy the new LFR tool Blizzard has implemented. So far I have yet to run into a really really bad group. I find it amazing I can even kill an endgame boss now, because my guild only consists of me, my hubby, and close friends who pop in and out.
    Don't even get me started on that. I never won a single piece of loot in the 4 times I ran both new raids across 2 characters. It's even worse than a guild as far as I'm concerned.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Some people enjoy raiding.
    That's because they have never been able to do anything else as end game content. Mmo's generally offer raids to satiate a desire to keep playing the game at level cap. Its desgned to take over for the lack of a level grind by offering a loot treadmill as a form of progression instead.

    Guild wars 2 is trying to break tha cycle by allowing the player to choose their own path of progression, much like open world rpg's like Skyrim. Because they want to break the mold, they deliberately did not make raids to start with so people do not fall for that trap as the only form of true progression.

    Getting on a treadmill is not fun in real life, nor is it fun in games because that is the only form of progresion offered to you. You have the whole world to explore to your whims and can set your own goals for achievements and feats for a change.

    People seriously need to break that WoW mentality in two, it almost feels like I'm looking at brainwashed people finally realize that they were seeing things that weren't there.\

    EDIT: Stop getting caught on this god damn post people, there is better clarification later in the thread, yes i know Raiding wasnt always end game in MMO's. no, that does not change my opinion that people have become so damn used to it they cant see or think of anything else as end game. Again, keep reading...
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2011-12-19 at 09:21 PM.

  8. #8
    The Patient ShamanTankFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    Fun. Strange concept I know, playing a video game for enjoyment.

    End game raiding solely exists to keep you busy so you'll continue to pay your $15 every month.
    Howdy Mif, I knew if anyone you would be the one to respond.

    Now, I understand your point about having fun and I'm all for it, BUT, where is the fun in reaching max level then going around grinding for cosmetic gear? Or going about thier Elite Events with EVERYONE on the server which honestly will not promote any orginazation or strategy involved in those fights at all.

    You see, I so completely understand your point. I LOVE your point! Your point is the reason why I wanted to play this game in the first place! I honestly believe your reasoning is valid. Maybe it is because I am so used to games that have major End-Game raiding for thier reason to keep bringing players back for more. But it works doesn't it? People always come back to those games, right? They always add new stuff, they always tag on more to thier story-line, they always make things more interesting or harder.

    Mif, I want to play/try out this game so bad, but like you I play games to have fun. With regular console RPG's they always have major boss fights that involve strategy and individual orginization. EVERY MMO out there has End-Game concepts with small/medium sized groups that revolve around the same style of strategy. That is where I have fun. I love tactics/strategy/orginization. I love having to group up with a decent sized group and take out the big-baddie. But where is that in this game? Will it have it or am I over my head and should I start thinking about picking up another game?

  9. #9
    @OP

    The things which are suppose to draw you back to GW2 is engaging gameplay.

    With no sub fees or necessary repetition tasks, GW2 banks on two factors: immediate accessibility via pick-up n' go gameplay 2. expansion packs.

    By their own admission, GW2 devs say they don't aim to replace traditional MMOs (like Warcraft). They mean to create an MMO you can play as you wish alongside your sub MMO or play totally in of itself.

    $60 for Skyrim = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.
    $60 for Guild Wars 2 = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    OP, you seem to be forgetting that there will be exploration modes availiable for every dungeon in GW2, 3 of them iirc. They offer as much of a challenge as any form of organized raiding.

    If your looking for strategy, stop thinking about needing 10-25 people, just think of how hard these 5man will be just because there are no raids.

    You should be covered, just don't sell yourself short.

    EDIT: I fuckin hate phone posting...
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2011-12-19 at 05:09 AM.

  11. #11
    The OP sounds a little bit confused and internally conflicted.

    If fun is not enough motivation to play a game, then you shouldn't play it.

    "End game" starts at level 1. The number next to your character doesn't mean anything. If you don't have any motivation to get to 80, then don't - it doesn't matter. You don't actually have to get to 80 to enjoy the game.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    That's because they have never been able to do anything else as end game content. Mmo's generally offer raids to satiate a desire to keep playing the game at level cap. Its desgned to take over for the lack of a level grind by offering a loot treadmill as a form of progression instead.

    Guild wars 2 is trying to break tha cycle by allowing the player to choose their own path of progression, much like open world rpg's like Skyrim. Because they want to break the mold, they deliberately did not make raids to start with so people do not fall for that trap as the only form of true progression.

    Getting on a treadmill is not fun in real life, nor is it fun in games because that is the only form of progresion offered to you. You have the whole world to explore to your whims and can set your own goals for achievements and feats for a change.

    People seriously need to break that WoW mentality in two, it almost feels like I'm looking at brainwashed people finally realize that they were seeing things that weren't there.
    Hey there. I enjoy raiding. Been playing MMOs since their endgame wasn't raiding.

    Raiding is a fun endeavor for me. It's the single most fun I have in an MMO. Exploration, story and lore are at best secondary concerns for me personally. And I have about 300 other folks in my guild who also enjoy this activity wholly.

    Not everyone views raiding as a pointless exercise, or at the least an exercise no more pointless than virtual fishing or virtual tailoring.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    $60 for Skyrim = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.
    $60 for Guild Wars 2 = X hours of gameplay. No commitment to a subscription fee.
    ^ This.

    Instead of comparing GW2 to WOW, people should instead compare it to a multiplayer version of Skyrim instead. It would certainly make much more sense.

  14. #14
    The Patient ShamanTankFTW's Avatar
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    I guess I should point out something so that people do not get the wrong impression of my orginal question. I HATE gear grinding... That, above all else, is the reason why I stopped playing games like WoW and Rift; and won't even touch Star Wars. I just cannot stand having to go into a raid to get the best gear possible for the sole purpose of even being there in the first place.

    That being said, I LOVE raids. Like I posted above, my number one reason for playing these types of games in the first place is not just being able to play with other people, but to play with those people and form strategies and tactics against the full force of what the gaming companies can throw at us! Sadly, with what we have been shown though, I won't get that at all... Sure, I'll get to group up with 4 other peeps and run through a dungeon, but I love being able to organize a decent size group to take out the heavy hitters; like thier anient dragons. I don't won't hundreds of people on the same server there with me. There would be NO way to organize that, let alone being able to implement tactics on those types of fights.

    I have been waiting for this game for a long ass time now. Hell, I'll still even play it when it comes out even if they don't have 'raiding' in it. But if they don't have it, I most likely will not stay. I just honestly hope that there will be something for people like me who (like you) don't want the gear grind but want something at the end worth the time that I put into the game.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    ^ This.

    Instead of comparing GW2 to WOW, people should instead compare it to a multiplayer version of Skyrim instead. It would certainly make much more sense.
    This is true. I can see comparing WoW and SWTOR together, because both are almost similar save for the theme/genre (and have a subscription fee).

    And GW2 is more like an MMO version of Elder Scrolls: Skyrim.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShamanTankFTW View Post
    I guess I should point out something so that people do not get the wrong impression of my orginal question. I HATE gear grinding... That, above all else, is the reason why I stopped playing games like WoW and Rift; and won't even touch Star Wars. I just cannot stand having to go into a raid to get the best gear possible for the sole purpose of even being there in the first place.

    That being said, I LOVE raids. Like I posted above, my number one reason for playing these types of games in the first place is not just being able to play with other people, but to play with those people and form strategies and tactics against the full force of what the gaming companies can throw at us! Sadly, with what we have been shown though, I won't get that at all... Sure, I'll get to group up with 4 other peeps and run through a dungeon, but I love being able to organize a decent size group to take out the heavy hitters; like thier anient dragons. I don't won't hundreds of people on the same server there with me. There would be NO way to organize that, let alone being able to implement tactics on those types of fights.

    I have been waiting for this game for a long ass time now. Hell, I'll still even play it when it comes out even if they don't have 'raiding' in it. But if they don't have it, I most likely will not stay. I just honestly hope that there will be something for people like me who (like you) don't want the gear grind but want something at the end worth the time that I put into the game.
    Dynamic Events don't require certain gear/level nor do they require a group or guild to complete. So... Yeah, Dynamic Events sound like your thing. :P
    Last edited by Mighty Blue Bear; 2011-12-19 at 05:16 AM.

  16. #16
    Can still form a "decent sized group" in GW2 and go raid their DEs. GW2's L80/Elite DEs are raids. Open world raids which scale by participation. Guess the puzzle element and exclusivity is lacking from open world raids... but, too early to tell.

    Still, $60. You'll get a lot of gameplay and at worst it's no better/worst than buying the latest Uncharted or Assassin's Creed if you wish.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Hey there. I enjoy raiding. Been playing MMOs since their endgame wasn't raiding.

    Raiding is a fun endeavor for me. It's the single most fun I have in an MMO. Exploration, story and lore are at best secondary concerns for me personally. And I have about 300 other folks in my guild who also enjoy this activity wholly.

    Not everyone views raiding as a pointless exercise, or at the least an exercise no more pointless than virtual fishing or virtual tailoring.
    Meh, its just my opinion on thbis matter. Raiding was something I enjoyed for a time,it was that epic feeling of needing 9-39 other people (yes, I raided in vanilla, barely) to acieve the goal of killing a great evil. But sadly I have found that peopl don't even care anymore, all they give a dan about is the loot and the competition, and eat eacother alie if anyone else gets in the way of that.

    I'm sick of raiding not because of the concept, but because of the people who I have to deal with in order to achieve that goal.

    When raiding is involved, people get used, sat out, or kickedfrom a guild over not being able to make the times/dps/ one bosses encounter. I hate seeing this type of asocial behavior, and that's why I am sic of seeing raiding as the epitome of end game

  18. #18
    Early on, before the big info pushes Anet provided, no one was sure what would be done about leveling caps. Anet themselves, early on, weren't sure what they'd do. Some speculated there'd be no cap, others figured 20 or 40. When 80 levels was announced, people started wondering what the levels actually represented.

    Best I can tell, the level cap represents the power cap. Skill ups or +stats will plateau there. Item stats might be balanced exactly around level as well.

    Honestly? I don't think the majority of GW2 players are going to worry about reaching the cap. Sure, there'll be people out there eager to be server first, but I wouldn't expect it to receive the same fanfare as it would in WoW. Consider leveling as one of those traditions MMO players aren't quite ready to do without.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Meh, its just my opinion on thbis matter. Raiding was something I enjoyed for a time,it was that epic feeling of needing 9-39 other people (yes, I raided in vanilla, barely) to acieve the goal of killing a great evil. But sadly I have found that peopl don't even care anymore, all they give a dan about is the loot and the competition, and eat eacother alie if anyone else gets in the way of that.

    I'm sick of raiding not because of the concept, but because of the people who I have to deal with in order to achieve that goal.

    When raiding is involved, people get used, sat out, or kickedfrom a guild over not being able to make the times/dps/ one bosses encounter. I hate seeing this type of asocial behavior, and that's why I am sic of seeing raiding as the epitome of end game
    I respect your opinion on the matter. It's just kinda yucky to toss out there ppl are simply being brainwashed into raiding as endgame. When many actually enjoy the experience of playing in their guild, taking on the various challenges more so than virtual fishing.

    It's good to remember that MMOs are a genre with a broad appeal. There is nothing ill about those players wishing to hang in Goldshire cooking virtual stew, those wanting an adventure or those wanting to min/max their Arcane Blast coefficient with tier XXCIV Shoulderpads of Doom.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Raiding is just a means to an end really. And that end happens to be epics.

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