Biowares 1st mistake

[Hightotem]

All of us can agree that the levelling in SWTOR is fantastic unless you a player that's not into storylines and just wants to hit cap fast as possible.

So going from 1 - cap it's probably the best mmo out on the market so far and for players that like to level alts in wow I think you absolutely love this game.

PvP seems like it will be fun and I am sure more things will be added in the not too distant future.

So what is SWTOR biggest downfall which is the same reason all other MMOs fail... Endgame PVE content.

For most wow players that have quit in the last month is because they are bored of 4.3 already due to having killed all the content in LFR, now SWTOR normal
mode is equivalent to wows LFR with one major exception... you have no real gear requirements to go into the operation and they easy enough to clear on normal mode. Players have been clearing operation content in questing gear even skipping flashpoints which leaves a big gap in what is required for your charactor progression. The dumbing down of wow raiding is why a lot of players have left and from the looks of it SWTOR is even easier.

Not many players will care for nightmare mode either unless it offers something different...

[dleet]

Your poor grammar, along with the fact that you seem to presuppose what a majority of players want/like, makes your post kind of pointless. The game isn't even released and you're already judging endgame pve content, really? So vanilla WoW magically came out of the oven with stellar raiding content and mechanics? Why don't you give the game at least 6 months before you start saying stuff like this...

[Kegler]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

[Synche]

So before it is even release with a VERY SMALL POPULATION even at or near the level cap due to early access, people already bitch about it? Almost ALL MMO's have only a small amount of PVE content when first released (JUST LIKE WOW) it is all added later as the main focus is on the leveling / story.

I am in no rush to get to LVL 50 in SWTOR, as one of the best things about the game (as you have agreed as well) is the leveling. The PVP is also quite fun (although the stat boosting can sometimes be a bit over the top).

I have done 1 flashpoint on my character so far, I have been having quite a bit of fun leveling alone and doing some pvp. I will most likely keep PVE delagated to WoW and focus mostly on PVP for SWTOR so that it can offer something different in terms of gameplay.

Dleet says it best :

Why don't you give the game at least 6 months before you start saying stuff like this...

[Glorious Leader]

Oh look, its this thread again. Do I bother engaging them in some kind of a debate? *sigh* okay one last time here goes...

I have absolutely ZERO problem with letting people run lfr/normal whatever you wanna call it. The fact that it also has zero gear requirement is also alright in my opinion because its giving you more freedom to gear up. Game has alot of freedom to do shit when you hit 50. Why is that a bad thing?

Never mind 6 months it doesn't get actually released to the general population till tuesday...

[eb88]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

Their first mistake was making the food pork "themed".

A lot of people just aren't into it.

Its an opinion of taste. there are alot of starwars fans out there

[Deleted]

I think the issue here is their Beta testing process. For hearing people who were on the main beta test - rather than just "weekend warrior" stress tests - it seems like there weren't that many people testing endgame. Weekend testers were unlikely to get a toon high enough for end game because of the slow leveling process.

My attitude to this game is that I've bought it, and will probably pay for a few month's subscription. Enough to level a couple of characters on both factions...but I can't really see it replacing WoW for me. The leveling is enough like KotoR3 that this amount of cash investment is worth it for me to play the "single player" game...but, tbh, I'm expecting the endgame to not be up to much, and so I can't ever really see playing it like a full-on MMO unless Bioware releases really fast endgame content patches (like the same kind of release schedule as Rift).

[Chronnos]

Your poor grammar, along with the fact

I see what you did there, can't win an argument, pick on the guy's grammar. /nod

The game isn't even released and you're already judging endgame pve content, really? So vanilla WoW magically came out of the oven with stellar raiding content and mechanics?

Plenty of people have gotten their hands on the game already so yea, people can start judging and expressing their opinions. Just because they don't match yours, doesn't mean he's wrong.
And when Vanilla came out Blizz didn't have anyone to "learn" from, like Bioware did. I mean raiding difficulty has been a MAJOR issue for the last 2-3 years in WoW (game which hosts the vast majority of MMO'ers) and Bioware didn't pick up on this? Come on!....

[Jervaise]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

and a lot of people are into it as well. your mind would be blown if you knew how many starwars fans there are

[vindicatorx]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

not sure if serious?

[Harry Botter]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

This made me lol so hard.....you cant be serious. People just arent into Star Wars? Fan or not to say something like that had to trolling or extreme fan boy bias.

OT: You really should wait till the game is released and see how people get through content first. I mean how can you judge this game like this? Take a look at the cluster fuck that was WoW raiding in vanilla and then you might have a viable comparison to how a company does their first mmo.

[Feel The Power]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

One of the sillier things I've seen on these forums. Not because I think everyone is into Star Wars (but there is certainly a lot more into Star Wars than say the Warcraft universe), but you can say this same statement about everything on earth, besides air and food.

[Glorious Leader]

I see what you did there, can't win an argument, pick on the guy's grammar. /nod


Plenty of people have gotten their hands on the game already so yea, people can start judging and expressing their opinions. Just because they don't match yours, doesn't mean he's wrong.
And when Vanilla came out Blizz didn't have anyone to "learn" from, like Bioware did. I mean raiding difficulty has been a MAJOR issue for the last 2-3 years in WoW (game which hosts the vast majority of MMO'ers) and Bioware didn't pick up on this? Come on!....

First of all, while its true that plenty of people have gotten their hands on the game few of those people are 50 or are in position to critique end game raiding. Secondly difficulty has only been an issue recently in wow and its debatable about how MAJOR of an issue it is. It's mostly a tiny minority of kids who whine at the top of their lungs for whatever fucking reason on either side of the debate. 3 modes of difficulty are fine, it gives everyone a taste. If you wanna argue this please go to the wow forums and do it, i know theirs like 10 threads dedicated to this alone.

[Sills]

The game hasnt even been released to the public yet so judging end game PvE content at this point isnt really a fair argument imo. Sure it might not be what you expected at this point (and that is a fair argument) but I say patience . Plus its still a new game. The end game content will be ironed out in the future as Bioware gets more focused on developing it instead of trying to focus on building an entire game.

[Nino]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

but alot are im not a big star wars fan but i know enough of the lore plus enough from the mmo genre to try it out and not nit pick at every thing as if raiding is the end all of an mmo when its not
at best they are probaly the most vocal part of an mmo but theres pvpers farmers auction housers and the like just games not even out yet jeez

[Yemiena]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

/thread
10chars

[Chronnos]

Their first mistake was making a game Star Wars themed.

A lot of people just aren't into it.

Why are people finding this so hard to believe? I for one share this guy's oppinion. I mean the films were ok, they were good, but as a gaming franchise and role playing.... meh swinging silly light sabers.... not my cup of tea.

[Deleted]

And when Vanilla came out Blizz didn't have anyone to "learn" from, like Bioware did. I mean raiding difficulty has been a MAJOR issue for the last 2-3 years in WoW (game which hosts the vast majority of MMO'ers) and Bioware didn't pick up on this? Come on!....

I agree - and I've not got much to add - but I did want to comment that I think the point you're making here is about one of the biggest issues with discussions on this game that's had me butting heads with my keyboard.

SWTOR was not released 7 years ago. It's released this week. It therefore doesn't have to compete with Vanilla WoW - it has to compete with WoW and all the other MMOs in the state that they are in today. Shrugging off bad points about the game as "well, look at how much better it is than what WoW had at release" makes no logical sense - it doesn't have to be better than WoW at release, it needs to be better (or comparable) to Cata-era WoW.

I'm not saying it can't defend itself against modern WoW - in many ways it's a better game (although, equally, in many ways WoW is a better game). I just wish people would stop using that silly argument.

[dleet]

I see what you did there, can't win an argument, pick on the guy's grammar. /nod


Plenty of people have gotten their hands on the game already so yea, people can start judging and expressing their opinions. Just because they don't match yours, doesn't mean he's wrong.
And when Vanilla came out Blizz didn't have anyone to "learn" from, like Bioware did. I mean raiding difficulty has been a MAJOR issue for the last 2-3 years in WoW (game which hosts the vast majority of MMO'ers) and Bioware didn't pick up on this? Come on!....

The way you say something directly influences your argument. If you say it stupidly, it has less impact. His already flimsy complaint was made even more so by his bad grammar.

Simply because Bioware can use WoW as a model doesn't mean their endgame is going to be amazing from the start. Firstly, ToR is not WoW and so cannot be balanced with the same rules and concepts. Secondly, the game -isn't even out yet- and the person is complaining. It takes weeks or even months to balance out endgame content to find that sweet spot of difficulty. A process that cannot be adequately done in any beta. To criticize a game like this before the developers can get some accurate numbers going is just plain ignorance.

Also, WoW has -never- been "balanced" to the point that everyone or even the majority of players were satisfied. It is an ongoing struggle. If you're not alright with playing a game that will never be finished, that will never be balanced, and that will never be perfected, then perhaps MMO's aren't the type of games that you and the OP should be playing.

[Kosm]

It's spelled a lot, not alot. The game is great, so far everything is amazing.