Thread: Stance Re-work?

Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Dreadlord Valdemar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    My house
    Posts
    825

    Stance Re-work?

    So... The Developers hinted at changing Berserker Stance to Battle Stance (10% damage to Battle Stance), and making Berserker an AoE stance (20% increased WW and Cleave damage). They also said that stance requirements for absolutely everything is being removed.

    Personally, I think this is pretty stupid.

    Lose 10% of all damage to gain 20% damage on TWO abilities (one that has incredibly weak damage)?


    Dumb.

    Since Death Knights are Warriors but better, why not give Battle Stance something similar to Unholy Presence and Frost Presence to Berserker Stance. It fits the class philosophies pretty well.

    The Berserker, hitting really hard with lots of rage (instead of runic power), and a standard Warrior in Battle Stance hitting really quickly, moving around the battlefield quickly. It says right on our specialization tree that Arms utilizes mobility, why can't we have that? We're also the only melee class that doesn't have a built-in 15% movement speed increase.

    That, or just remove stances entirely and give us a static damage increase. Bake the passive threat increase in Defensive Stance into Sentinel.

    Out-dated mechanic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldjman View Post
    Warriors viable in multiple comps? lolno. Any high rated warrior falls under the following;
    1) wintraded.
    2) very high mmr at the start of the season, so they fought their way to glad at 5 am vs 2k teams.
    3) has their connections from previous seasons carry their class.
    Also, we most certainly weren't the most op in S9. Dk's were a better warrior in every aspect. Thanks for trying though.

  2. #2
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    32
    In the new MoP Talent Calculator, Berserker give a bonus for ALL the warrior's AoE skills.

  3. #3
    Okay, you realize that with the complete overhaul to the talent system, so many major changes to skills, classes WILL be re-balanced around the new mechanics, right?

    You aren't losing anything, until you can display, with actual gameplay proof, that it is directly a damage loss, your words are merely rumor, speculation etc.

  4. #4
    What they are truthfully losing is something that has been clunky and arduous for some but challenging and enjoyable for others.

    If you are talking just numbers, you are clearly in the "clunky and arduous" bracket whereby you don't actually know why people like me, who enjoy stance dancing and the challenges involved and are sad to see the gameplay mechanic go.

    The game will be balanced in PvE and a spec (probably 2 specs and at a stretch all of them)will be viable in PVP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  5. #5
    The DK presences don't work. My DK is now both Frost and Unholy specs, and guess what, he's always in Unholy presence. Frost presence has highly situational uses, so much so I can't remember what they are any more.

    If done properly the Warrior stance change should be much better. In short it says: Battle = Single; Berserker = Multi. You decide how long you're going to have to do AoE and decide if it is worth changing spec. It works.

    It works out as a 9% increase to WW and Cleave, whether that is strong enough, I don't know, but numbers can be changed in Beta. I don't see anything wrong with the concept. It is pretty much the only workable option (without adding a secondary resource system tied into it).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Kezool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    2,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    What they are truthfully losing is something that has been clunky and arduous for some but challenging and enjoyable for others.

    If you are talking just numbers, you are clearly in the "clunky and arduous" bracket whereby you don't actually know why people like me, who enjoy stance dancing and the challenges involved and are sad to see the gameplay mechanic go.

    The game will be balanced in PvE and a spec (probably 2 specs and at a stretch all of them)will be viable in PVP.
    I rather have it be an active choice than an arbitrary requirement for abilities, but as you said it's all opinions so nobody is right.
    Live in fear, for the bullsquirrel is near.

    The entire internet needs to be aware of this

  7. #7
    I like the change personally...

    semi off topic: I wish they would lower the cost and cooldown of cleave for AoE situations (and damage to make up the difference) that way we arent rage starved when we need AoE (idk if its a problem with better gear, since my main spec is prot and my off spec isnt as geared)
    Oh yes, there is a method to my madness O.o
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We generally consider 0 / 0 / 71 builds to be a failure.
    ^win

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,074
    Frost Presence is only ever used by any DPS DK to AoE a large pack with.

    Consider that.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  9. #9
    The new talent calculator changed the stances from what you've mentioned (20% increased dmg on whirlwind and cleave). Right now, it increases you're damage by 20% whenever you hit 4+ targets. They also added a 1.5 CD to all stances, which makes me believe they're tied to the GCD now and you can't just macro them to your AoE skill.

    That said, I also don't like them. Since the stance requirements have all been lifted, they should maybe change them completely to become more of a flavor/utility think.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Valdemar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    My house
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Frost Presence is only ever used by any DPS DK to AoE a large pack with.

    Consider that.
    Battle Stance/Berserker Stance is a shittier version of Frost Presence.

    Consider THAT.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-20 at 01:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    What they are truthfully losing is something that has been clunky and arduous for some but challenging and enjoyable for others.

    If you are talking just numbers, you are clearly in the "clunky and arduous" bracket whereby you don't actually know why people like me, who enjoy stance dancing and the challenges involved and are sad to see the gameplay mechanic go.

    The game will be balanced in PvE and a spec (probably 2 specs and at a stretch all of them)will be viable in PVP.
    Out-dated mechanic is out-dated.

    I liked Warrior Stances when they mattered. They're slowly being phased out. At this point I feel like they're just a hinderance rather than a core mechanic of the Warrior class.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-20 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    The DK presences don't work. My DK is now both Frost and Unholy specs, and guess what, he's always in Unholy presence. Frost presence has highly situational uses, so much so I can't remember what they are any more.
    Unholy Presence doesn't work? Huehue.

    My Warrior is now both Arms and Prot specs, and guess what, he's almost always in Battle Stance. Berserker and Defensive has highly situational uses, so much I can't remember what they are any more.

    I don't bother Stance Dancing between Battle and Berserker for Overpower/5% more damage; it's too tedious and you have to spec differently for it to work properly without losing alot of rage. It just isn't worth it for that ~500 more dps, maybe. If I don't screw up and lose OP procs.

    DK's posting in Warrior thread.

    Dk's are Warriors 2.0. You aren't welcome here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldjman View Post
    Warriors viable in multiple comps? lolno. Any high rated warrior falls under the following;
    1) wintraded.
    2) very high mmr at the start of the season, so they fought their way to glad at 5 am vs 2k teams.
    3) has their connections from previous seasons carry their class.
    Also, we most certainly weren't the most op in S9. Dk's were a better warrior in every aspect. Thanks for trying though.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post
    Unholy Presence doesn't work? Huehue.
    Unholy presence doesn't work, because you rarely need to swap out of it. You can swap for a burst of AoE, but as far as I can tell over the long term Unholy still wins out for rune generation. The problem is, you can theorycraft which one is better and there's no strong bias towards AoE situations to make you want to swap stance. A big button with AoE stance written on it works better, which is why the new stances for warriors work better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post
    My Warrior is now both Arms and Prot specs, and guess what, he's almost always in Battle Stance. Berserker and Defensive has highly situational uses, so much I can't remember what they are any more.

    I don't bother Stance Dancing between Battle and Berserker for Overpower/5% more damage; it's too tedious and you have to spec differently for it to work properly without losing alot of rage. It just isn't worth it for that ~500 more dps, maybe. If I don't screw up and lose OP procs.

    DK's posting in Warrior thread.

    Dk's are Warriors 2.0. You aren't welcome here.
    Finally, I am a warrior, how dare you question my warrior-ness; I am a true warrior, a prot warrior. And I'll tell you what, if you're mainly using Battle stance for Prot you're doing it wrong! Oh wait, you're PvP, what a pity you're so single mindedly commenting on changes that apply to all warriors.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  12. #12
    A little early to speculate. Abilities could change. Damage coefficients could change widely as well. Remb whirlwind pre patch 4.0? =p

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    3,011
    That, or just remove stances entirely
    I will be honest with you. Your thread lost all credit when you said these words.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

    www.poepra2.com.br Um blog para quem prefere jogos multiplayer.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post
    DK's posting in Warrior thread.

    Dk's are Warriors 2.0. You aren't welcome here.
    Haven't heard that since the start of Wrath. Way to be current.

    Here's something else you might have missed that's been thrown around both the DK boards and the Warrior boards ever since the beginning of the last expac. Are you ready for it?

    "Presences are not Stances. Stances are not Presences".
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Valdemar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    My house
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Haven't heard that since the start of Wrath. Way to be current.

    Here's something else you might have missed that's been thrown around both the DK boards and the Warrior boards ever since the beginning of the last expac. Are you ready for it?

    "Presences are not Stances. Stances are not Presences".
    Same Idea. Also just because people haven't actually said it doesn't mean it isn't true.

    Death Knights have always been able to do almost everything Warriors do, but better.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-21 at 01:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post

    Finally, I am a warrior, how dare you question my warrior-ness; I am a true warrior, a prot warrior. And I'll tell you what, if you're mainly using Battle stance for Prot you're doing it wrong! Oh wait, you're PvP, what a pity you're so single mindedly commenting on changes that apply to all warriors.
    I'm sorry. I've only played Arms since S6, so it's a habit that I say I'm pretty much always in Bstance.

    It's a given that I'm always in Defensive Stance when I'm the Flag Bitch on deck.

    ALSO, if UH presence doesn't work because you never swap out of it, what are your thoughts on Berserker Stance as Fury?

    Yeah. I mostly PvP, but I did PvE throughout BC and most of Wrath. I didn't raid at all this xpac.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldjman View Post
    Warriors viable in multiple comps? lolno. Any high rated warrior falls under the following;
    1) wintraded.
    2) very high mmr at the start of the season, so they fought their way to glad at 5 am vs 2k teams.
    3) has their connections from previous seasons carry their class.
    Also, we most certainly weren't the most op in S9. Dk's were a better warrior in every aspect. Thanks for trying though.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    3,011
    Death Knights have always been able to do almost everything Warriors do, but better.
    Except making it happen. But you can keep trying.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

    www.poepra2.com.br Um blog para quem prefere jogos multiplayer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post
    if UH presence doesn't work because you never swap out of it, what are your thoughts on Berserker Stance as Fury?
    Currently using Berserker for Fury doesn't work because you sit in it the whole time.

    If they wanted to keep Fury as a Berserker focussed stance, the only option I can envisage is to force them to change to Arms when raid damage is high, by adding more +dmgtaken modifiers.

    The suggested change to have both Fury and Arms being in Battle Stance works better. Essentially they've outlined two clear purposes for the stances, single-target and multi-target. With proper numbers, these two stances should work and most warriors will have to change stance appropriately in various PvE content. For example, in 5s you do trash in berserker and switch to battle when you hit the boss. For most fury warriors, this will mean more stance swapping than ever before.

    PvP suffers a little if you judged performance by the ability to stance dance. However, defensive stance should still serve a purpose when you're being focussed upon.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    440
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post

    Lose 10% of all damage to gain 20% damage on TWO abilities (one that has incredibly weak damage)?

    Dumb.
    No offence but you compare old design with new design, that doesn't really work when comparing numbers. Losing 10% damage from berserker stance doesn't mean we've been nerfed by 10%, they are only moving numbers around.
    Warrax, Fury Warrior

    2600k @ 4.5ghz / ASUS P8Z77-V PRO / 16GB G.Skill RAM 1866 / Gigabyte 970 G1 Gaming / Intel 730 SSD

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrax View Post
    No offence but you compare old design with new design, that doesn't really work when comparing numbers. Losing 10% damage from berserker stance doesn't mean we've been nerfed by 10%, they are only moving numbers around.
    I think what he means is that Battle Stance (new) provides 10% damage on all abilities, and Berserker Stance (new) gives 20% damage on certain abilities.

    He is concerned that you will lose more dps from your single target filler/ragemaker abilities, than you will gain from your AoE abilities.

    However, that's a beta issue.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    What they are truthfully losing is something that has been clunky and arduous for some but challenging and enjoyable for others.

    If you are talking just numbers, you are clearly in the "clunky and arduous" bracket whereby you don't actually know why people like me, who enjoy stance dancing and the challenges involved and are sad to see the gameplay mechanic go.

    The game will be balanced in PvE and a spec (probably 2 specs and at a stretch all of them)will be viable in PVP.
    I would entirely beg to differ. Yes, stance dancing and weapon swapping was "fun". But it was just...wrong. It put artificial barriers on our reaction times and abilities that were never needed. The challenge was an arbitrary one. A warrior has enough challenge timing his spell reflects and interrupts let alone having to pre-emptively jump to another stance to interrupt or break a fear (because guessing your opponents' moves is pure skill). Other players adapted to our playstyle and that is part of the reason we're so utterly weak in PvP right now. People can easily negate spell reflects or run away from a warrior during disarm or dismantle a warrior before he can hit shield wall. All stances are right now are huge indicators for how our opponents should counter our next ability. No other class has this drawback.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-21 at 06:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    However, that's a beta issue.
    Beta issues have a nasty habit of becoming live and 2-patch-later issues.

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-21 at 06:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    Except making it happen. But you can keep trying.
    Cheesy one-liners don't change the fact that Death Knights, for all intents and purposes, are better warriors in terms of PvP at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •