즐거운공격대 World First on Heroic Madness of Deathwing

**Whiskra** · 2011-12-20, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Eryndriela

Congrats to KIN Raiders!

It is the mount that drop from the normal mode [Reins of the blazing drake]. We got one too on our last kill.
The one from HC is more red, close to Alexstrasza colors [Life-binder's Handmaiden]

That is the Life-binder mount.

**xkare** · 2011-12-20, 05:50 PM

Congratz KIN Raiders

**Ellsian** · 2011-12-20, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by DetectiveJohnKimble

That was just Metzen talking out of his ass. Several Korean posters on this site say that's not the case. Either way, we don't have a poll to know what they think.

Then that's the 2nd Blue to "talk out of their ass" -- and I'm sorry but I'll believe the devs a bit more than a forum troll.

**GUESSWHOIAM** · 2011-12-20, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by brexour

They got 2 resets per week so not so much to say...

2 resets per week? blind moll, they got 2 resets in firelands, not dragon soul.

**Yeller** · 2011-12-20, 06:00 PM

Soooo many trolls especially hunterxbro. Please just ignore him it's clear from all his post he's just trying to stir up shit. Gratz Kin i was rooting for paragon to make a comeback but it's nice to see someone new.

**Sjekboef** · 2011-12-20, 06:01 PM

they raid 7 times a week... 2 a day or something? Man. Sorry to say but if that's true: get a life!

**Gertrude** · 2011-12-20, 06:01 PM

Gz indeed

**Maximus4004** · 2011-12-20, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Sjekboef

they raid 7 times a week... 2 a day or something? Man. Sorry to say but if that's true: get a life!

What do you think the Paragon/BL/Exodus raid 2x? lol

**Mow** · 2011-12-20, 06:10 PM

Big gratz!

**IJustMyUsername** · 2011-12-20, 06:17 PM

What has been established:

Their double lockouts for were FL only
Their double lockouts did not have any effect on the number of DWs attained
#2 has already been categorically itemized by a poster above, by date. A number of their DWs were created through PUGs or absorbed through recruitment
They identified a requirement (heavy burst) and geared/recruited/specced for it

Know what all of this amounts to? They played the game better and got the big W first. Class stacking has always been a viable strategy - since Vanilla. I, a veteran rogue in our guild, who was present for world first Vanilla Ragnaros, had to sit out on one of the first of few Ony40 kills in the world because they needed a non-guildy hunter for the air phase. Was I butt hurt a bit by it afterwards? Sure, but my guildleader was leading a world first progression guild, not a "everyone come out and play the class you have the most fun with and let's have fun killing the boss!!!1" guild.

Is anything stopping Paragon/Blood Legion from recruiting a couple out-of-guild mages or sub rogues to ease spine? Nope. If they identified the need for burst early on and didn't do anything proactive about it, then they weren't truly playing for world first. If they did identify this, and the classes did show up, and they still don't have a kill, then it's a failure to execute. If they were executing near-perfect but a member was underperforming, then they should have immediately replaced them. None of this is the # of dragonwraths or FL lockouts. This is failure to do what needed to be done for a world first kill. This goes for any guild. Anyone not acknowledging this is willfully ignorant.

I did want to touch on the question of race, since it has been directly or indirectly brought up because of this. I was a competitive gamer for quite some time prior. I played 1v1 and TDM competitively in Quake 2, 3 and 4(lol4) and then raided competitively in EverQuest & WoW. There are a couple certainties I've learned from both genres: EU teams are traditionally amazing at communication and 'group think', and Asian teams are traditionally amazing at individual execution. Am I surprised a Korean guild took world first? Hell no. There was an asian EQ raiding guild back in the day (Arirang) that was something like 13 people two/three boxing players and keeping up relatively well in the server raiding circuit.

KIN Raiders identified the need for burst, satisfied the burst check through whatever means possible and then executed the fight(s) perfectly. They did what needed to be done for the kill, so congrats to them.

**Jw2ok** · 2011-12-20, 06:17 PM

spine of deathwing heroic = around 300 attempts
madness of deathwing heroic = killed at 108th attempt

source from playforum interview on kin raiders after the kill

**MihmetCrido** · 2011-12-20, 06:17 PM

Big gratz, somewhat unexpected but very welcomed. Hoping for a continued place in the first place in the future!
Only if you could have played on english realms so understanding your kill videos would have been a tad bit easier

**sixx** · 2011-12-20, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by hunterxbro

Yea but does blood legion have 7 arcane mages with legendary staves? Nope, the koreans did.. Wanna know why? They have a roster of 50 people and chop it down to raid stack with what they need, 2 firelands lock outs per week = more classes with staves.

Dude... I dunno if you serious or just a bad troll...

Any other top guild out there haves all their casters with legendaries... They all have the same amount of legendaries.

---------- Post added 2011-12-20 at 02:34 PM ----------

Originally Posted by IJustMyUsername

What has been established:

Their double lockouts for were FL only
Their double lockouts did not have any effect on the number of DWs attained
#2 has already been categorically itemized by a poster above, by date. A number of their DWs were created through PUGs or absorbed through recruitment
They identified a requirement (heavy burst) and geared/recruited/specced for it

Know what all of this amounts to? They played the game better and got the big W first. Class stacking has always been a viable strategy - since Vanilla. I, a veteran rogue in our guild, who was present for world first Vanilla Ragnaros, had to sit out on one of the first of few Ony40 kills in the world because they needed a non-guildy hunter for the air phase. Was I butt hurt a bit by it afterwards? Sure, but my guildleader was leading a world first progression guild, not a "everyone come out and play the class you have the most fun with and let's have fun killing the boss!!!1" guild.

Is anything stopping Paragon/Blood Legion from recruiting a couple out-of-guild mages or sub rogues to ease spine? Nope. If they identified the need for burst early on and didn't do anything proactive about it, then they weren't truly playing for world first. If they did identify this, and the classes did show up, and they still don't have a kill, then it's a failure to execute. If they were executing near-perfect but a member was underperforming, then they should have immediately replaced them. None of this is the # of dragonwraths or FL lockouts. This is failure to do what needed to be done for a world first kill. This goes for any guild. Anyone not acknowledging this is willfully ignorant.

I did want to touch on the question of race, since it has been directly or indirectly brought up because of this. I was a competitive gamer for quite some time prior. I played 1v1 and TDM competitively in Quake 2, 3 and 4(lol4) and then raided competitively in EverQuest & WoW. There are a couple certainties I've learned from both genres: EU teams are traditionally amazing at communication and 'group think', and Asian teams are traditionally amazing at individual execution. Am I surprised a Korean guild took world first? Hell no. There was an asian EQ raiding guild back in the day (Arirang) that was something like 13 people two/three boxing players and keeping up relatively well in the server raiding circuit.

KIN Raiders identified the need for burst, satisfied the burst check through whatever means possible and then executed the fight(s) perfectly. They did what needed to be done for the kill, so congrats to them.

I approve this. Same thing I've been thinking...

**tacoloco** · 2011-12-20, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sjekboef

they raid 7 times a week... 2 a day or something? Man. Sorry to say but if that's true: get a life!

It's what all WF guilds do. It's several weeks of intense activity and drops to normal activity after the race is over.

**skipdog172** · 2011-12-20, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kaneiac

Lich King Heroic was downed in like, 4 weeks. And they had 50 attempts per week. You can deduce that Heroic LK would have died in a matter of days if there wasn't a restriction on attempts.

This is no different.

Listen, and please read this:

BLACK TEMPLE WAS CLEARED IN 8 DAYS
FIRST 3 BOSSES OF SUNWELL WERE KILLED THE SAME DAY. THE NEXT 3 WERE KILLED WITHIN 1 WEEK OF EACH BEING AVAILABLE

Dude, this is not a new phenomenon. It's been going on since BC. Shit is dying incredibly fast. 14 days for an unlimited, ungated final raid is actually pretty long.

It saddens me that so many here pay attention to this race and talk about how easy DS is when it's just a ridiculous conclusion and things have always died so fast...

It also saddens me how so many people here are too lazy to read ANYTHING, and just make their "lol 19 legendaries" posts and never realize how wrong they are.

**Ragepaw** · 2011-12-20, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Herecius

I will certainly agree on this point. A longer race in general is more fun, though at the same time, both Sunwell and ICC had to be artificially extended with gating to make the race longer, and I'm not too fond of gating at all. I wish there was some magical way to make bosses take longer to kill without making them absolutely impossible, but that's probably just a pipe dream.

Though this is still gating, make it so you have to attune again. make it so players have to build an object or get a drop in the raid to open up different parts of the dungeon. drop 2 in 10 man, and 5 in 25 for equality. It should reduce alt swapping and many of the other tricks guilds do to cheese gear.

Or maybe there is no solution other than like you said, make it super hard. I don't know. If I had the answer, I would be a game designed.

**Alcomo** · 2011-12-20, 07:35 PM

Anyone else getting a laugh at all these sore losers trying to dig up anything they can to make this world first seem less epic, or not count? Can't a guild just be, I dunno, good? As soon as Paragons name isn't in the title its suddenly a giant conspiracy. Losing sucks, but get over it I say and give these guys a damn high five for cleaning house!

**Ragepaw** · 2011-12-20, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by nehunter

historically?

BC - Sunwell gated
Wotlk - ICC gated

During which time, guilds spent gearing up.

There was a lot of gearing time, and those guys were far better geared (relatively) than the people now were.

**Lowlie** · 2011-12-20, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Sjekboef

they raid 7 times a week... 2 a day or something? Man. Sorry to say but if that's true: get a life!

Actually, if youd have understanding how this all works youd know that.. Well.. 95% of the very users on these forums, play alot more than many people in the world top guilds.

The REAL hardcore players are the casuals, yes thats right casuals.

**linusivar** · 2011-12-20, 08:13 PM

LFR
Normal
Heroic
Korean

Gratz again guys

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