MOP will fix it

[ardente]

fck that wow, i'm a Republic Commando now! gj blizz

[Gladria]

A: You are a believer

B: You have heard this same old song somewhere before

Discuss

I love playing wow, but I am quite dissapointed with blizzard's approach to the new talent trees. One of my favorite things about Rift, and even classic/tbc world of warcraft, was the complexity of the talent trees. Now that talent trees have come down to 6 decisions, 1 decision every 15 levels, i'm saddened. Not loss of a subscription saddened, just saddened of the what I believe to be, a overly simplistic approach to class customability. So no, i do not believe MoP will fix anything, It'll just be the same as every other expansion, Blizzards attempted corrective measures towards damage control.

[Deleted]

I love playing wow, but I am quite dissapointed with blizzard's approach to the new talent trees. One of my favorite things about Rift, and even classic/tbc world of warcraft, was the complexity of the talent trees. Now that talent trees have come down to 6 decisions, 1 decision every 15 levels, i'm saddened. Not loss of a subscription saddened, just saddened of the what I believe to be, a overly simplistic approach to class customability. So no, i do not believe MoP will fix anything, It'll just be the same as every other expansion, Blizzards attempted corrective measures towards damage control.

Have to admit that i was completely for the new talent system, i thought it would be a fantastic idea but after playing SWTOR where you get a talent every level i think i'm really going to miss it. Blizzard say that things like talents increasing strength by 2/4/6/8/10% aren't fun and i dont know about anyone else but i actually do find these fun and enjoy picking them up. It could all still change though, blizzard drastically changed the talents during beta for cata at what seemed like the last moment so they could always do it again.

[Sobek]

we hear this every expansion or every time new content is announced.

all I see is problems and unhappy players that aren't having fun and want to quit, but feel they can't because they invested too much, are addicted, or whatever.

whenever there's a problem like boring content, buggy systems blizz says "we're working on a fix" or "next patch/expansion will be better. its blizz dangling a carrot to make the horse go where they want. carrot being empty promises for the future, horse being players.

players hang around thinking things will change and get better, never happens, ask long time players who have been waiting for years. blizz has no intention or desire to fix problems or improve the game for players. they do whatever will make them the most profit. players aren't a consideration until blizz starts losing subscriptions.

blizz has been lying to hopeful players all along, and for years and that hasn't and won't change. you heard promises for game balance and improvement for the better in wotlk, the BC players quit or stayed and are unhappy, still hopeful, remembering the game through rose tinted glasses.

you heard it when cataclysm was announced. how did that turn out? now you hear it for next expansions.

the truth is blizzard will milk the game for more money at players expense. majority of player base doesn't want the game to be a blizz pet store at the expense of fun, fresh, lasting content.

look at the direction the game has gone through the expansions, what makes you think it will get better? they say it will every time, it gets worse, they scrap good system ideas like path of titans in favor of talent tree homogenization to make it easier for lazy developers to code and balance.

the only thing consistent about blizzard is they lie to players to make money and the game has been going in the wrong direction for years.

---------- Post added 2011-12-26 at 11:22 AM ----------

Have to admit that i was completely for the new talent system, i thought it would be a fantastic idea but after playing SWTOR where you get a talent every level i think i'm really going to miss it. Blizzard say that things like talents increasing strength by 2/4/6/8/10% aren't fun and i dont know about anyone else but i actually do find these fun and enjoy picking them up. It could all still change though, blizzard drastically changed the talents during beta for cata at what seemed like the last moment so they could always do it again.

sure but how did blizz change the talents, and other content? they cut pieces of the game out so its easier to balance. less originality and character customization in favor of less work from developers. what are they getting paid for every month? the direction of the changes have been more convenient for blizz at the expense of what players find fun and enjoyable. fortunately many players started playing in wotlk and cataclysm or they'd a really small player base. in woltk you had experienced players from vanilla and burning crusade raiding in wotlk, in cataclysm your raiders started mostly in wotlk, veteran players quit by the boat loads. they needed LFR for newer players to finish any content, or they'd need non-raid content more often. they had to get casuals and newer cata players raiding or they'd be bored and quit.

look at the direction of the changes. its less and less and more profit from vanity items they can lose half their players if everyone buys something from the pet shop. it wont be long until they just stop developing content all together. then what will players do after a new expansion blizz just gives up on wow and milked out all the money from new expansions and no new patch content.

my guess is this will happen in MOP. blizz claims things will get better like they claimed in cata. more likely they'll release MOP and no new content for months, players quit but they're already in the getaway car. their entire focus will be on diablo 3 for content, which probably wont be very good looking at their "best content" the last few years.

diablo will have a pet store and get the same kind of crappy content patches, if at all. I wouldnt put it past blizz to release a diablo expansion same time as MOP and just let everyone quit as they run to the bank.

blizz knows their time is up, but they already cashed their checks, the lack of cataclysm content and profits during cata bought diablo development free and clear. anything they make now is profit. look at other MMOs with a fraction of the revenue doing more content and bigger patches in less time.

the only thing blizz is thinking about is how to get the last ounces of milk out of the cow and how fast they can run.

btw Pilkie is your avatar the android from red dwarf? haha haven't seen that show in years

[Kerawyn]

I was merrily minding my own business until they decided to say they wanted to remove wands

Oh no, your useless stat stick slot that you haven't viably used in 5 years! Whatever shall you do!

Well, you could stop being a drama queen to start.

[Gladria]

we hear this every expansion or every time new content is announced.



my guess is this will happen in MOP. blizz claims things will get better like they claimed in cata. more likely they'll release MOP and no new content for months, players quit but they're already in the getaway car. their entire focus will be on diablo 3 for content, which probably wont be very good looking at their "best content" the last few years.

diablo will have a pet store and get the same kind of crappy content patches, if at all. I wouldnt put it past blizz to release a diablo expansion same time as MOP and just let everyone quit as they run to the bank.

blizz knows their time is up, but they already cashed their checks, the lack of cataclysm content and profits during cata bought diablo development free and clear. anything they make now is profit. look at other MMOs with a fraction of the revenue doing more content and bigger patches in less time.

I think them merging concepts between world of warcraft and the new diablo is exactly the reason why I'm quickly losing interest in diablo 3. Diablo 2 was amazing, it had it's glitches but I still loved it, and still play it from time to time. But it seems that every time I read up on what's new with the game, I'm less and less excited about getting it (for free since I paid for the year thingy of wow). I want runes/runewords back, I want gems back the way they were, I want the game to be 99.99999% soloable by at least most classes (everything but UBERS were soloable in D2).

[mööh]

It wont fix much. But they say the last thing you loose is hope....so im still hanging in there. I really wanna see our new ability's tho. I'm sure it's gonna be like camo 2.0

[cganz]

The final tier talents are laughable at best. Not really a fan of how they want to mix pvp and pve together. More traps for people to walk around is exactly what hunters need right? Sigh.........

[StationaryHawk]

I choose A.

[Arieth]

I love the nostalgia and the shear madness going on in this thread. 2/4/6/8/10% strength talents are fun? What? Those are MANDATORY talents, why on earth do you want those back? Blizzard is gimping talents trees because they are lazy about balancing the game? What? I want to see you try and balance a game with 10 classes. SWTOR couldn't even do it with how new their game is, so it's not a company issue, it's an MMO issue, get it right. You aren't gonna play D3 because you want Runewords back? You want things soloable? What? Why would you want things that made the game IMBALANCED? This thread is all sorts of contradiction. And for your information, Blizzard already said that even Nightmare mode will be soloable if your character is bad ass enough. Blizzard in a matter of time gonna stop developing content for WoW? What? Of course if you mean 2-4 years years then sure, because they already said they ARE doing at least 2 more expansions, by then Titan will come out, and sure, WoW will probably even still be getting content patches, but nothing major will be coming out with Titan on the loose.

I sure hope you guys understand that Blizzard C Team has ALWAYS been working on Cataclysm, their B Team working on MoP and their A Team working on Titan.

And again, I sure hope you guys understand that none of the MoP talents are set in stone.

One last thing, Remember that kid at Blizzcon that asked Metzen if MoP was gonna be a throw away expansion? Yeah, if anything that was Cataclysm. MoP is going to take a dump in Cataclysm's hand.

[Realization]

It will fix the terrible lack of rainbows.

That's all it shall do!

[Sobek]

I think them merging concepts between world of warcraft and the new diablo is exactly the reason why I'm quickly losing interest in diablo 3. Diablo 2 was amazing, it had it's glitches but I still loved it, and still play it from time to time. But it seems that every time I read up on what's new with the game, I'm less and less excited about getting it (for free since I paid for the year thingy of wow). I want runes/runewords back, I want gems back the way they were, I want the game to be 99.99999% soloable by at least most classes (everything but UBERS were soloable in D2).

oh yeah, I know what you mean.

unfortunately you never want to give an iffy product teetering on thin ice a guaranteed payment in advance. the worst thing a customer could do is pay in advance to a company clearly only interested in profits rather than the customer or product. the only reason for the annual subscription offer is they're losing customers, at least this is guaranteed revenue to report to stock holders. if the investors/stock holders sold their shares the game is dead. people think if players stop subscribing the game s dead, really the money comes from shares, if WoW were to lose 8 million of the 12 million players, and still make the money back from the blizz pet store or annual, imaginary subscriptions (buying time in the future when you won't even want to play anymore) they don't even need happy players. if people buy MOP with a new annual subscription then quit, they already have your money. no point in keeping your interest with new content.

annual subscription = you think new content takes 6 months, now it takes 12 months. you can quit we have your money.

same thing with the blizz bank "credit" system. you can pay $100 and use that money for pets, WoW, diablo game subscriptions, or just quit, you don't get your $100 back.

its so obvious I can't believe people can't or won't see it.

---------- Post added 2011-12-27 at 09:25 AM ----------

What? I want to see you try and balance a game with 10 classes. SWTOR couldn't even do it with how new their game is, so it's not a company issue, it's an MMO issue, get it right.

other games have class balance. the 2%, 4% talents wow used to have was a choice for customization, without that what do you have? these benefits make your character stronger rather than making them do completely different things. its more balanced for a player to fight another player with 2% more strength than a completely different spell or a spell thats useful for being talented than a spell that not useful because not talented. talk about balance. as far as you have changes and subjectivity there won't be equality, but some things are more equal, and simple talents like a slight bonus to a stat because of a choice a player makes for the direction of their talent tree. and there's more cookie cutter builds in cataclysm with 41 point talents than there has ever been. there is only 1 correct build for each spec now, according to player perception, choices are gone, results of varying specs are obvious and detrimental, wake up.

I sure hope you guys understand that Blizzard C Team has ALWAYS been working on Cataclysm, their B Team working on MoP and their A Team working on Titan.

And again, I sure hope you guys understand that none of the MoP talents are set in stone.

really? blizz has always said they don't have better teams working on other things, especially titan. they claim they have equally efficient teams working on different things at different times. every blue poster I've ever read says things like "we don't have good developers working on titan and neglecting warcraft!" either blizzard is blatantly lying in hundreds of posts, or their best team is working on wow, or at least all teams are equal and the content in wow is the best anyone could do at blizzard. in that case, you have nothing to hope will get better. their best team showed you all they got.

One last thing, Remember that kid at Blizzcon that asked Metzen if MoP was gonna be a throw away expansion? Yeah, if anything that was Cataclysm. MoP is going to take a dump in Cataclysm's hand.

there's no lore. lore makes good games. why do you think people hated cataclysm? but catalcysm had more lore and background than MOP. pandarans? from where? the only pandaran was in the neutral hero tavern in the optional campaign with thrall and rexxar in warcraft 3: reign of chaos.

from this they have an expansion? no, because they think players want to play a panda. why do players want pandas? is it the chinese lore they love? no. by the way, before anyone starts, the rolling animation for the pandaran model is stolen from the high elfs in rift. the characters roll the same exact way. just thought I'd point out blizzard stealing from other games for the people claiming rift stole from wow.

[TJ]

oh yeah, I know what you mean.

unfortunately you never want to give an iffy product teetering on thin ice a guaranteed payment in advance. the worst thing a customer could do is pay in advance to a company clearly only interested in profits rather than the customer or product. the only reason for the annual subscription offer is they're losing customers, at least this is guaranteed revenue to report to stock holders. if the investors/stock holders sold their shares the game is dead. people think if players stop subscribing the game s dead, really the money comes from shares, if WoW were to lose 8 million of the 12 million players, and still make the money back from the blizz pet store or annual, imaginary subscriptions (buying time in the future when you won't even want to play anymore) they don't even need happy players. if people buy MOP with a new annual subscription then quit, they already have your money. no point in keeping your interest with new content.

annual subscription = you think new content takes 6 months, now it takes 12 months. you can quit we have your money.

same thing with the blizz bank "credit" system. you can pay $100 and use that money for pets, WoW, diablo game subscriptions, or just quit, you don't get your $100 back.

This is a good point, and exactly how i feel. I wish so many people didnt get sucked into buying 12 months of WoW.. just gives blizzard a lifeline to keep more subs than they would when competitors come out (not saying theyre going to lose some but its a lifeline). Now people are committed to a year of WoW and it makes the subs look better than they actually are. Not against blizzard, just saying that because a lot of people bought the 12 months of WoW then realised they didnt want to, couldnt afford it, or whatever other reason, just shows they were sucked into it without even thinking.

[Mjolnir2k]

Now people are committed to a year of WoW and it makes the subs look better than they actually are. Not against blizzard, just saying that because a lot of people bought the 12 months of WoW then realised they didnt want to, couldnt afford it, or whatever other reason, just shows they were sucked into it without even thinking.

There are plenty of ways to get out of the "contract" and terminate the payments at any time you choose. Typically I would not advocate breaking a contract, because essentially a contract is a promise and you should keep your promises.

However, considering Blizzard has no moral compunction about breaking their promises to their customers (Fixing game balance issue, bugs, playability of spec's) then I believe all bets are off ("I stake my reputation on fixing BM Hunters"...-GC roughly 3 years ago)

[Deleted]

There are plenty of ways to get out of the "contract" and terminate the payments at any time you choose. Typically I would not advocate breaking a contract, because essentially a contract is a promise and you should keep your promises.

However, considering Blizzard has no moral compunction about breaking their promises to their customers (Fixing game balance issue, bugs, playability of spec's) then I believe all bets are off ("I stake my reputation on fixing BM Hunters"...-GC roughly 3 years ago)

It's kinda hard not to get too tired of the whole "carrot on a stick" they've been holding out to hunters for years now.. Will try MoP for sure. But if we'll have the same issues it might be time to reroll to a more fail-proof and more consistent class.

[Mjolnir2k]

Will try MoP for sure. But if we'll have the same issues it might be time to reroll to a more fail-proof and more consistent class.

So, you'll be rolling a Mage then

[UunaPriest]

Perfect balance in PvP is impossible without giving everyone identical tools.
Perfect balance in PvE is impossible without making identical encounters and identical abilities, as well as identical rotations, stat priorities, and scaling.
(example, right now 2 classes may scale from 100crit differently than each other, or even may scale differently from going to T12 to T13, due to mechanics of their spells/talents).
The mechanics of the game are actually rather complicated, especially with respect to dps, in how the stat values interact with talents, as well as other stat values. SimulationCraft exists for this very reason.

That being said, I think Cata has seen the closest amount of balance for PvE at any point in WoW's history.

[Mjolnir2k]

Perfect balance in PvP is impossible without giving everyone identical tools.
Perfect balance in PvE is impossible without making identical encounters and identical abilities, as well as identical rotations, stat priorities, and scaling.
(example, right now 2 classes may scale from 100crit differently than each other, or even may scale differently from going to T12 to T13, due to mechanics of their spells/talents).
The mechanics of the game are actually rather complicated, especially with respect to dps, in how the stat values interact with talents, as well as other stat values. SimulationCraft exists for this very reason.

That being said, I think Cata has seen the closest amount of balance for PvE at any point in WoW's history.

Perfect Balance might be unobtainable, but "near" balance shouldn't be. It's fine that each class has a hard counter, IF EACH class actually has one. At this point there are a very select group of classes that are singled out for developer attention and thus a disparity is growing between the haves and have nots.

When one class has 3 specs that are top performers (PvP and PvE) while other classes have NONE, that is an issue that needs to be addressed in the name of "Balance".

This has been much promised by Greg Street and Co at Blizzard, but hardly delivered.

[Deleted]

So, you'll be rolling a Mage then

Was thinking about a monk or a rogue actually xD

[BatteredRose]

there's no lore. lore makes good games. why do you think people hated cataclysm? but catalcysm had more lore and background than MOP. pandarans? from where? the only pandaran was in the neutral hero tavern in the optional campaign with thrall and rexxar in warcraft 3: reign of chaos.

The Frozen Throne, not Reign of Chaos. And there were also "feral" ones. And this wouldn't be the first time they've added lore to races that previously had little to no lore.

As a matter of fact, even the orcs and humans started with nothing. Guess we better remove every single race from the game since they all had to have lore added to them.