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  1. #1

    DW frost - Frost Presence or Unholy Presence?

    everyone i know says unholy pres' better for dw frost, elitistjerks says unholy pres' better for dw frost, but explain this to me:
    every time i compete against another frost dk that's in unholy pres, regardless its in a dungeon, a raid or competing with my guild mates, i always outclass them in dps while in frost presence. the only time ive actually been beaten in dps by another dk was by an unholy specced dk. it was a very big mood killer when i found out that..
    please explain this to me, i just cant understand why everyone persist saying that unholy presence is better when i always win against them.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tenpuss/simple

  2. #2
    If I got gear that was reforged to expertise and mastery, I would still beat every PuG DK I've met, therefore that must be the best option.
    Skill/gear makes such a direct comparison almost meaningless.

  3. #3
    i always try to keep this priority when it comes to reforging stats: expertice until cap and then try to keep it at cap>hit to yellow cap and see extra hit as a bonus, but not as something i should overdo, i can sacrifice some hit sometimes>haste>mastery>crit

  4. #4
    I guess they aren't spamming their abilities fast enough. I lose about 2k DPS by switching to frost presence, never able to dump all my runes and runic power in time.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tjsno View Post
    I guess they aren't spamming their abilities fast enough. I lose about 2k DPS by switching to frost presence, never able to dump all my runes and runic power in time.
    i dps in frost because unholy always makes me run out of runes and rp way too fast with too long wait to recharge, making my dps drop like a rock after a while, while in frost, i can at go on much longer and keep my dps at a steady pace and more often than not increase it with time

  6. #6
    I dps as frost in unholy and only get beat by dk's who outgear me. Not that LFR should be used as a guideline but I was only beat by an enhance shaman on Madness.

    Unholy presence is much about timing and near perfect rotation. If you get out of sync with your runes your dps can be significantly impacted. In that case Frost presence is much more forgiving to giving you high dps because it's pace is much slower.

  7. #7
    I beat every LFR DK I come across by miles too. Hell, in some LFR's I do twice the damage as anyone else in the top 5. That's LFR...
    If you want to compare yourself to me, feel free to check my logs/ranks on WOL.

    Wingwraith <Kinetic> on Alexstrasza (US)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gwraith/simple (8/8 H T13; 7/7 H T12 - F.U. Ragnaros)
    Quote Originally Posted by kumduh View Post
    @Wingwraith: You can haz a point too, but only because you admit you're a tool!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    I dps as frost in unholy and only get beat by dk's who outgear me. Not that LFR should be used as a guideline but I was only beat by an enhance shaman on Madness.

    Unholy presence is much about timing and near perfect rotation. If you get out of sync with your runes your dps can be significantly impacted. In that case Frost presence is much more forgiving to giving you high dps because it's pace is much slower.
    i see.. well that pretty much explain my question about it then, since i beat my guild mates who have better gear than me. timing huh? clever..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelleelle View Post
    since i beat my guild mates who have better gear than me. timing huh? clever..
    Have you considered the option that your guild mates are not very good?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gwraith/simple (8/8 H T13; 7/7 H T12 - F.U. Ragnaros)
    Quote Originally Posted by kumduh View Post
    @Wingwraith: You can haz a point too, but only because you admit you're a tool!

  10. #10
    Legendary! Treelife's Avatar
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    You beat them because they are bad. Simple.

  11. #11
    More haste>Faster melee attacks>More killing machine procs. Atleast that's what I've heard and hey, it makes sense.

    If you want the best output priority goes: Hit to yellow cap>Exp to soft cap>Haste>Mastery>Crit, and ofcourse Unholy presence.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensura View Post
    More haste>Faster melee attacks>More killing machine procs. Atleast that's what I've heard and hey, it makes sense.

    If you want the best output priority goes: Hit to yellow cap>Exp to soft cap>Haste>Mastery>Crit, and ofcourse Unholy presence.
    yeah ive tried that, and my dps drop like a rock because i run out of runes and rp way too fast for them to regenerate

  13. #13
    I think the general idea is that unholy presence is only better if you're really, really tight with your resource management, and even then it's not a super huge increase. I always find I do roughly the same DPS in either presence, but I'm not the most fantastic player in the world. Still it's nice to switch around now and again just for funsies if I feel like more of a fast-paced experience. ^^

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelleelle View Post
    yeah ive tried that, and my dps drop like a rock because i run out of runes and rp way too fast for them to regenerate
    Then clearly you are doing something wrong. Never RP cap. RP capping and running out of things to do almost instantly is the first thing any newbie does.

  15. #15
    Field Marshal
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    Maybe once or twice in a long fight do I find myself with absolutely nothing to do but auto attack for more than a few seconds (outside of waiting for Oblit to become available for a KM proc and HoW is on CD or I'm about to cap RP). HoW, BT, proper RP management, disease management... There are so many things to watch for an react to; on an almost constant basis. This is in Unholy Presence. When I accidentally forget to switch back to UP after a spec switch or something, I feel there is something wrong immediately. In those cases where I'm in Frost Presence, I find that I don't have enough time to use everything I have in order to do proper DPS.

    Maybe it's just me, but DPSing in FP seems really clunky and I don't like it. Plus, lower DPS is never a good thing.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Snarfysnarf's Avatar
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    Your dps compared to other peoples dps at your level of play does not mean much, because many random people you find don't know what they are doing. As far as your question the only time you ever go frost presence for any spec ever is when you are blood boiling as unholy, or if there is a long period of aoe as frost (such as yorsahj black ooze adds, or the long forgotten maloriak black ooze phase on heroic mode)

  17. #17
    The only time frost presence will be better for you than unholy, is if your haste is so low that you don't resource cap. This can happen at very very low gear levels. Or if you prioritize mastery. Which will still yield lower dps than a haste heavy build.

  18. #18
    The Patient Azome's Avatar
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    Unholy presence lowers your GCD by 0.5 sec as far as i'am aware this is the main reason why Frost dk's would want to dps in unholy presence plus you get more haste which is our best stat after str, hit and exp cap are reached.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelleelle View Post
    everyone i know says unholy pres' better for dw frost, elitistjerks says unholy pres' better for dw frost, but explain this to me:
    every time i compete against another frost dk that's in unholy pres, regardless its in a dungeon, a raid or competing with my guild mates, i always outclass them in dps while in frost presence. the only time ive actually been beaten in dps by another dk was by an unholy specced dk. it was a very big mood killer when i found out that..
    please explain this to me, i just cant understand why everyone persist saying that unholy presence is better when i always win against them.
    Unholy... always... pve and pvp...

    Frost is never used.

  20. #20
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelleelle View Post
    yeah ive tried that, and my dps drop like a rock because i run out of runes and rp way too fast for them to regenerate
    If you're RP capping then going back down to 0 without doing anything else then that's just bad RNG, you should have had at least 1 or maybe 2 runic corruption procs that would have allowed you to either HB or OB or something therefore generating more RP therefore more FS and therefore more chances for runic corruption to proc. That's how i see my DW cycle usually going.

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