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  1. #1

    SWTOR and addons...

    Are people not aware that Blizzard doesn't create the addons what we use? I see lots of posts on forums whining about SWTOR not having addons like - healbot, recount, omen, dbm and the plethora of other things people want. So do people actually think it's Blizzard that's hanging out creating these? Furthermore, BW has said that they're going to open to the API's to allow people to build addons. The game has been out for freaking less than a week and people whine that it doesn't have features of a title that's been out for 7 years and had thousands of hours of outside game development time.

    And, people are complaining about LFG and why isn't it already in the game. Lol, do people have such little understanding of software development? If you've designed a piece of software as complex as this without that functionality built in already, to retool the software isn't just like sitting down and spending a few hours coding. This is a MASSIVE over-haul of the code and would have significantly delayed the release of this title.

    Do you really think that Blizzard just a few days and poof LFG was there? Or how about LFD? Why do you think that we still don't have mail which can be sent from your account to other toons on different servers? The are complex development issues which aren't just solved in one day.

    So folks, be glad that we've got SWTOR, it's a great game. The game is going to only get better and the likelihood of getting the things we want with regards to addon's will eventually happen.

  2. #2
    Good post, for the most part.

    I think most people really don't understand the work involved in creating something like this. It takes thousands of people to get it done.

    They also don't realize it's ALL about building a solid foundation, and then working from that.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleeha View Post
    Are people not aware that Blizzard doesn't create the addons what we use? I see lots of posts on forums whining about SWTOR not having addons like - healbot, recount, omen, dbm and the plethora of other things people want. So do people actually think it's Blizzard that's hanging out creating these? Furthermore, BW has said that they're going to open to the API's to allow people to build addons. The game has been out for freaking less than a week and people whine that it doesn't have features of a title that's been out for 7 years and had thousands of hours of outside game development time.

    And, people are complaining about LFG and why isn't it already in the game. Lol, do people have such little understanding of software development? If you've designed a piece of software as complex as this without that functionality built in already, to retool the software isn't just like sitting down and spending a few hours coding. This is a MASSIVE over-haul of the code and would have significantly delayed the release of this title.

    Do you really think that Blizzard just a few days and poof LFG was there? Or how about LFD? Why do you think that we still don't have mail which can be sent from your account to other toons on different servers? The are complex development issues which aren't just solved in one day.

    So folks, be glad that we've got SWTOR, it's a great game. The game is going to only get better and the likelihood of getting the things we want with regards to addon's will eventually happen.
    Blizzard does not make them no, it does however have tools in place to make the info available so that people can use it. SWTOR does not even have the data available to us, or even a combat log to parse. When people say give us add-ons, they really mean give us the ability to make them. WoW had this in at launch, and that was 7 years ago. At the very least, moving and scaling what is available and a combat log should have been in at launch.

    Yeah, this has been said before and I probably shouldn't even be posting cause this is just gonna be another flame war. But I did, my stance has not changed, it should have been in at launch, it's not, oh well, carryon and wait for it.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2011-12-22 at 08:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Blizzard does not make them no, it does however have tools in place to make the info available so that people can use it. SWTOR does not even have the data available to us, or even a combat log to parse. When people say give us add-ons, they really mean give us the ability to make them. WoW had this in at launch, and that was 7 years ago. At the very least, moving and scaling what is available and a combat log should have been in at launch.

    Yeah, this has been said before and I probably shouldn't even be posting cause this is just gonna be another flame war. But I did, my stance has not changed, it should have been in at launch, it's not, oh well, carryon and wait for it.
    The one thing I will agree with is a combat log to parse though. That should have been without a doubt open from day one. Perhaps we'll get at least that within the next month or so. As for why the API's aren't opened? I haven't a clue as to what reasoning there could be behind this. Perhaps they want to build a set of tools like Apple has and then submit the addons to BW for final approval like you do with iPhone apps. You build your app in say XCode, pay your 99.00 registration fee to Apple and then submit for approval.

    I hope this isn't going to be the case because I love how Blizzard has opened the API's to pretty much do to the UI what I like as long as it isn't actually touching the in-game code - for example there was an addon during Wrath which would display on the floor the radius of all bad crap. Blizzard said no and disabled the ability to use this addon.

  5. #5
    I'll use RIFT as an example.

    Though it was months after release before addons were allowed, they at least got some basic UI functions at launch.

    A small crappy company like Trion without the resources of Activision and EA behind it was able to put out:

    - a combat log
    - a decent AH interface without a bunch of hoops
    - mouseover macros
    - raid frames
    - multiple specs

    What is Bioware's excuse?
    Last edited by LonestarHero; 2011-12-22 at 08:37 PM.

  6. #6
    I'll agree it's alittle early for some of the complaints (3 days live..) and the game may not have 7 years of being fine tuned.

    But it is almost unbelievable how lame the UI they released this game with is. This game has been in development for years. This game, like all mmos, takes little ideas and features from all the mmo that came before it. So you're telling the developers never played another mmo and looked at their own game and thought "maybe being able to move and resize this stuff like in <game> would be a good idea" or "maybe having the buff, debuff, and procs as tiny little icons on the bottom of the screen is a bad idea"

    You'd think while they spent all the time on the visuals, story, gameplay, they'd consider their game would be attracting veteran mmo players right off the bat and cater to their play styles so they don't go running back to wow, rift, etc after a week.

    The game is great imo, but it's a great foundation and unfortunately there are only so many of us willing to wait for them to build on that.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LonestarHero View Post
    I'll use RIFT as an example.

    Though it was months after release before addons were allowed, they at least got some basic UI functions at launch.

    A small crappy company like Trion without the resources of Activision and EA behind it was able to put out:

    - a combat log
    - a decent AH interface without a bunch of hoops
    - mouseover macros
    - raid frames

    What is Bioware's excuse?
    I think you have to consider the audience to whom BW is targeting.. Yes, you're going to have a population of raiders, pvp'ers, altoholics and then I think they're going after people who may have stayed away from or didn't care for the WoW type of MMo with a more advanced UI and looking for a more simplistic UI. People who are just all about the SW franchise and being apart of that story and either being the villain or hero. The latter folks aren't going to care about how good their dps is and the like. However, the gamers with raid experience will.

    I do think that people have been WAY to critical in the first week. I can see being like how people are being after a quarter or two of the game being out. This franchise as a very unique fan base of so many types of people. Which is why possibly the UI was built to cater to that with the hope of capturing the 'typical raiding style of MMO' player down the road.

    There are things however and I agree with the AH, you just look and wonder, who designed this? Honestly the AH is really just bad overall design. But it can be improved and it seems to me that the more the player-base gives feedback of - OK, we're seeing this, it doesn't work and here's why; this is how to improve it will go a lot further than just the typical - "This sucks, I quit, BW is fail."

  8. #8
    You have to remember the world of mmos is much different now. Wow was not the first mmo but it was the first to make mmos mainstream. It's popularity was due alot to word of mouth. That's why wow's playerbase is made up from anyone from a 10y/o to a housewife to a middle/old aged businessman.

    Players tend to stay where they are or move forward. Look at Rift. It was very hyped, it was marketed(commercials and whatnot) Alot of people tried it. Some stayed, most left. It's a good game and it will probably maintain it's current playerbase but it lost it's chance to be great. The expansions/patches for Rift look awesome but most people wont go back to it. It's old news and they're looking forward. With old reliable(wow) ever present an mmo has a very short period of time to dig it's feet in and establish itself.

    Long story short, swtor needs to give players a reason to be there other than "look voice acting and a star wars theme!"

    And this is coming from someone who has been play swtor since last friday like an addict.

  9. #9
    No blizzard does not make the addons, but they provide SUPPORT for people to make addons. Something SWTOR has yet to implement.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Blizzard does not make them no, it does however have tools in place to make the info available so that people can use it. SWTOR does not even have the data available to us, or even a combat log to parse. When people say give us add-ons, they really mean give us the ability to make them. WoW had this in at launch, and that was 7 years ago. At the very least, moving and scaling what is available and a combat log should have been in at launch.

    Yeah, this has been said before and I probably shouldn't even be posting cause this is just gonna be another flame war. But I did, my stance has not changed, it should have been in at launch, it's not, oh well, carryon and wait for it.
    You can move and scale the party/operation frames. As far as your own character portrait and enemy portrait are concerned, I'm not sure if there is a way to move/scale them as well.

  11. #11
    The Patient
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    There was no reason to have the API closed in the first place. To not have a combat log is crazy.

    I'm enjoying it as an RPG, but to have any sort of MMO feel, I should at least be able to know how I'm performing, especially relative to others. For example, if I don't know which spells do the most damage, I am not making a meaningful choice when I hit one over another. I'm effectively flailing on my keys, and watching things die, and that won't sate people for long.

  12. #12
    While I agree to a point that i would like to see some addon support allowed eventually I find the situation somewhat amusing. You have half the mmo population whining and pointing out that SWTOR is a clone of wow + lightsabers and storylines. Then you have another huge group that wants to clone their ui from wow into SWTOR.

    Yes I hope they add support eventually. No I am not so caught up in it right now. To me the only issue I have had so far with the game is the previously mentioned Auction House. It is clunky and annoying, especially for early in the game when you might not know exactly what you are looking for. But the ui, while incredibly simple, is not that much of an issue currently. Nightmare modes and true raiding, yes I will want some addon support. However the game just launched, and even though wow had the capability at launch it took mos of vanilla before you started truly seeing addons get infused into the community. It was in BC that it truly erupted onto the scene and has grown since.

    Unless you are racing through the game to make yourself feel better with artificial firsts and epeen wagging, enjoy the process. Get attached to your characters, learn the nuances of the game. And if enough of us stay and make a true community all these little things will follow and fall into place.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Hiya's Avatar
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    a decent AH interface without a bunch of hoops

    I love the game, but dang....the AH sucksssssss
    Last edited by Hiya; 2011-12-22 at 09:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    - Remember STV? People had to go to the same netural camps to get quests... shit was serious -

  14. #14
    I am pretty sure Wow shipped with addon support. Yes, it's 7 years old, but I expect SWTOR to be have some of the improvements wow made.

    These are QoL improvements and in this day and age, shouldn't be left out. WoW has pushed the genre forward, and yes, it's old and tired but it has set some standards that other games need on launch.

    Stuff like no dual spec, no combat log, really poor AH UI.

  15. #15
    kind of agree, kind of dont.

    i see a lot of: it takes a lot of time to make these features and the game just came out so you cant expect them to be there.

    then I think, capitalism, competition, etc. it indeed does take a huge amount of time to develop these desired features bug free, and blizzard has a huge advantage because they've been building their system for 7 years. but really companies should not cop out with the excuse given above.

    game devs they need to recognize that these are features that the community has come to expect and they should be standard in any MMO that is similar to wow. from the begining, not 6 months to a year after its release

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Beazy's Avatar
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    If the OP actually played WoW, he would know that Blizzard has incorporated many of the popular mods into their game directly as part of the UI, and made them operate and look better too.


    Also, if the OP was in SWTOR BETA and actually read the forums there, he would know that BioWare intends to open the option up in the future.

  17. #17
    I really do not like any add-ons, combat meters or cross-realm LFD for SWTOR. If they do this then it will be like WoW in space.

    But, IMHO, they need to work on some things (and i believe they do) like:
    An overhaul of the Galactic Trade Network. (Auction house) It must be more functional and friendly.
    Scalable UI with configure options. It really needs a bit of polishing here.
    The general stability of the game. Too many graphics problems even on high above recommended specs machines.
    The queues and reconnections. It is a very big problem on full servers.

    The game has many minor bugs but nothing game breaking. I enjoy playing it so far.

  18. #18
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleeha View Post
    Are people not aware that Blizzard doesn't create the addons what we use? I see lots of posts on forums whining about SWTOR not having addons like - healbot, recount, omen, dbm and the plethora of other things people want. So do people actually think it's Blizzard that's hanging out creating these? Furthermore, BW has said that they're going to open to the API's to allow people to build addons. The game has been out for freaking less than a week and people whine that it doesn't have features of a title that's been out for 7 years and had thousands of hours of outside game development time.

    And, people are complaining about LFG and why isn't it already in the game. Lol, do people have such little understanding of software development? If you've designed a piece of software as complex as this without that functionality built in already, to retool the software isn't just like sitting down and spending a few hours coding. This is a MASSIVE over-haul of the code and would have significantly delayed the release of this title.

    Do you really think that Blizzard just a few days and poof LFG was there? Or how about LFD? Why do you think that we still don't have mail which can be sent from your account to other toons on different servers? The are complex development issues which aren't just solved in one day.

    So folks, be glad that we've got SWTOR, it's a great game. The game is going to only get better and the likelihood of getting the things we want with regards to addon's will eventually happen.
    People do not remember that WoW have been online like 7 years now... and when they started in wotlk or tbc there was those all kinds adds and stuff to help playing and building better UI.

    and now some fearsome fact... WoW didnt have addons in vanilla when first week was over... ok ok now some of ppl are like O.o o.O WTF are that dude speaking!!!!!111! wow didnt have a addons!. I DONT BELIVE IT!

    TLDER just give it time... there will eventualy be a addons and custom UI...

    AND yes MY englishh is very good since im from w

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-23 at 12:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy;14769632[U
    ]If the OP actually played WoW, he would know that Blizzard has incorporated many of the popular mods into their game directly as part of the UI, and made them operate and look better too.[/U]


    Also, if the OP was in SWTOR BETA and actually read the forums there, he would know that BioWare intends to open the option up in the future.
    But those addons were create years later than wow started... wow didnt have addons when it hit online first time...
    Salam aleikum

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoth View Post
    I am pretty sure Wow shipped with addon support. Yes, it's 7 years old, but I expect SWTOR to be have some of the improvements wow made.

    These are QoL improvements and in this day and age, shouldn't be left out. WoW has pushed the genre forward, and yes, it's old and tired but it has set some standards that other games need on launch.

    Stuff like no dual spec, no combat log, really poor AH UI.
    Polish the actual gameplay first. Leave the QoL stuff for later down the road when you actually need it.

    Be honest: How badly do you actually need a dual spec option when you're leveling up and have a companion to help you along?

  20. #20
    So a question I have is because I started playing WoW in Nov 09', when did duel spec actually hit WoW? How long from launch until we saw duel spec? Secondly, as a poster made mention, at this point with the game only being officially out less than a week, why really do you need duel spec if you aren't level capped? You have a 'pet' you can heal and or tank. If you aren't hitting areas before you're really ready for them and it's easy to do, then you shouldn't ever really have a problem leveling.

    But.... but.. I wanna.. but..

    I would guess that duel spec will hit, just a matter of when, like most of the other stuff that's been requested.

    You do have to wonder however when the Q&A guys and the feedback that BW got during the beta's why didn't things like the AH UI change prior to launch? It almost has that same feel that Ghostcrawler has brought to WoW during Cata - Yeah, we know this is a problem but we're OK with it being a problem, don't like it? Well go play Pong..

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