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  1. #1
    Grunt
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    [T13] Feral Tank 2pc

    With the new Feral Tank 2pc, did Mastery get passed by everything?

    Personally, pre-4.3 I was a straight mastery tank and I love it. But with the 2pc (pretty much) keeping it up everytime it's down, seems like it's the last of our priority now.


    I have 4pc on my druid, and I was just wondering, is this our priority list now:

    Agility > Dodge > Mastery
    Last edited by Megatronn; 2011-12-23 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #2
    I thought tanking priority was always Agil > dodge> mastery

    But with the t13 2p, it helps boost mastery value.
    Personally, I go for soft exp cap and mastery then crit w/ t13 as it helps me get higher uptime with savage defense while increasing bleed damage for when I cat form dps.

  3. #3
    The 2 piece would make mastery better since it increases our up time, so I really don't understand your reasoning.

    Our mastery has no effect on our savage defense up time, only the strength of the shield. Up time is determined by crit, hit, and expertise.


    Dodge has always been a better stat as far as tanking than mastery.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    The 2 piece would make mastery better since it increases our up time, so I really don't understand your reasoning.

    Our mastery has no effect on our savage defense up time, only the strength of the shield. Up time is determined by crit, hit, and expertise.


    Dodge has always been a better stat as far as tanking than mastery.
    "Personally, I go for soft exp cap and mastery then crit w/ t13 as it helps me get higher uptime"

    Sry if i wasn't clear

  5. #5
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    Dodge > mastery and it has never changed alll expansion, the 2 piece bonus doesnt change this either.

    BUT

    If you're mainly the off tank for your guild, it's probably better to go mastery. If you're the main tank of your guild dodge still wins.
    Last edited by rated; 2011-12-23 at 11:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    Dodge > mastery and it has never changed alll expansion, the 2 piece bonus doesnt change this either.

    BUT

    If you're mainly the off tank for your guild, it's probably better to go mastery. If you're the main tank of your guild dodge still wins.
    Where is your proof that dodge > mastery? Rawr has been telling me since patch 4.3 that mastery is better.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervos View Post
    Where is your proof that dodge > mastery? Rawr has been telling me since patch 4.3 that mastery is better.
    I've seen more people have problems with rawr and get the wrong information because they didnt set a certain variable to X instead of Y.

    You should be getting gear with mastery on it already thrus reforging the non mastery stat into dodge.

    Dodge avoids taking damage. SD mitigates said damage. Both only account for physical damage intake so it should be fairly obvious which is better.

    To dodge something all I got to do is have something attack me, which you're doing all the time when tanking anyways. To mitigate something with savage defense I gotta attack something, then hope I get a crit, then hope my venegence aka AP is up high enough to get a decent sized bubble, then I gotta hope what I got hit with isnt higher than my SD bubble other wise im still taking damage.

    http://theincbear.com/dodge-diminishing-returns
    Last edited by rated; 2011-12-24 at 01:06 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    Dodge avoids taking damage. SD mitigates said damage. Both only account for physical damage intake so it should be fairly obvious which is better.
    Not that your conclusion is off, but that's some faulty reasoning right there. To illustrate:

    "Dodge avoids taking damage. Block mitigates said damage. Both only account for physical damage intake so it should be fairly obvious which is better.", where Block is the superior one for shield classes. 100% reduction (avoidance) isn't always better than partial reduction, it depends on the chances for each to happen, among other things.

    That said, dodge is still above mastery, albeit very slightly for normal modes (should be a bit more of a difference for hardmodes). I really don't know where the OP got the idea that 2t13 lowered mastery's value, like earthwormjim said it's the main reason they're so close right now.
    Last edited by Braindwen; 2011-12-24 at 01:56 AM.

  9. #9
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    The later it gets the less sober I am. I know my intent is right lol

    a warrior/paladins block is MUCH better than a druids mastery to begin with and completely different mechanic. It provides a static damage reduction where SD doesnt and block is more reliable than SD and functions in the same way a druid dodging stuff does: Having things attacking you to dodge and/or block it.

    And I believe dodge comes out better for hardmodes anyways, but I havent had the chance to do hardmodes on my druid so someone with more experience tanking hardmodes on a druid can back me up on this or correct my wrongness.
    Last edited by rated; 2011-12-24 at 01:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    Not that your conclusion is off, but that's some faulty reasoning right there. To illustrate:

    "Dodge avoids taking damage. Block mitigates said damage. Both only account for physical damage intake so it should be fairly obvious which is better.", where Block is the superior one for shield classes. 100% reduction (avoidance) isn't always better than partial reduction, it depends on the chances for each to happen, among other things.

    That said, dodge is still above mastery, albeit very slightly for normal modes (should be a bit more of a difference for hardmodes). I really don't know where the OP got the idea that 2t13 lowered mastery's value, like earthwormjim said it's the main reason they're so close right now.
    block gives 30% (or so) dmg red always, our mastery dosent give us a certain amount of dmg reduce.


    I would always gem stamina, and go for dodge @ every reforge I can. I haven't changed this since ever.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AeRae View Post
    block gives 30% (or so) dmg red always, our mastery dosent give us a certain amount of dmg reduce.


    I would always gem stamina, and go for dodge @ every reforge I can. I haven't changed this since ever.
    I'm attacking the logic that avoiding the whole hit (dodge) is innately superior to removing part of it (SD, block, whatever), because it isn't always the case. You can stop missing the point now :P.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    I'm attacking the logic that avoiding the whole hit (dodge) is innately superior to removing part of it (SD, block, whatever), because it isn't always the case. You can stop missing the point now :P.
    For druids, the reason why Dodge is generally superior is because, simply put, we are the RNG tank. While Paladins and Warriors can get CTC, and DKs have a thousand cooldowns to help with mitigation, as well as a "controllable" block, Druids can be screwed over by RNG. It doesnt matter if we have 102% crit chance, expertise hard caped, hit caped, AND have our SD fully absorb an amount equal to our HP pool, if the dice lands on the side that says, "no, sir, you did NOT proc SD within the last 10 seconds" we take full damage to the face. Because of this, its either Blocky RNG or Dodgy RNG, so the question is, do we want to avoid full attacks as much as possible, or do we want to avoid some damage as much as possible. Because of the fact that many bosses hit for far more then our Savage Defense absorbs, avoiding ALL of the damage some of the time is better then avoiding SOME of the damage most of the time.

    Now, with the vengeance change, and the way absorbs work, Mastery can really become better then Dodge by a landslide. However, its a single niche when you are taking many many moderate hits from mutliple sources, such as tanking Halfus dragon whelps. 8 whelps are all hitting you for a moderate amount of damage. There are enough whelps that the chances of you NOT procing SD whenever you swipe/thrash is extremely low. And, because of how absorbs absorb all damage and then cancel, you can effectively reduce the whelp damage intake to nothing, when compared to, say, Paladins, Warriors, and DKs. Paladins and Warriors will either take 30-60% less damage, or none. DKs will take the most damage in this situation, either taking full damage due to having no shield, no damage due to dodge/parrying, or no damage due to absorbing the whelps attacks. Druids will take an average of 90% or so less damage then the other tanks in this situation. The only fight in current content which fits this is Madness, when a druid can take the bloods and avoid the melee damage being dealt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  13. #13
    Thank you for missing the point as well.

    I already said dodge>mastery. I'm not arguing that point. I'm just pointing out faulty logic from a previous post, that seems to stir up debate for no reason because of what I used as an example counter to it.
    Dodge avoids taking damage. SD mitigates said damage. Both only account for physical damage intake so it should be fairly obvious which is better.
    100% reduction (avoidance) isn't always better than partial reduction, it depends on the chances for each to happen, among other things.

    That said, dodge is still above mastery
    Jeez, would have thought this would be obvious .
    Last edited by Braindwen; 2011-12-24 at 05:48 AM.

  14. #14
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    With the DR in place, If your dodge rating is at 44.20% it will get lower as 30.32% after the first dodge which means dodge isnt the most optional stat to stack. Savage defense tho, Is a buff you gain with almost 100% uptime, and stacking mastery gives you incrased absorb of that buff. Also i've stalked DREAM Paragon's Main Feral Tank the whole expansion and he have gemmed stamina and reforged everything to mastery which didnt have mastery and those items who had mastery already, he had reforged to dodge.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    With the DR in place, If your dodge rating is at 44.20% it will get lower as 30.32% after the first dodge which means dodge isnt the most optional stat to stack.
    No, DR on dodge doesn't work this way.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelios View Post
    With the DR in place, If your dodge rating is at 44.20% it will get lower as 30.32% after the first dodge which means dodge isnt the most optional stat to stack. Savage defense tho, Is a buff you gain with almost 100% uptime, and stacking mastery gives you incrased absorb of that buff. Also i've stalked DREAM Paragon's Main Feral Tank the whole expansion and he have gemmed stamina and reforged everything to mastery which didnt have mastery and those items who had mastery already, he had reforged to dodge.
    first, thats NOT how DR on player avoidance works, and second you will never do the content as undergeared as the people in paragon do them so trying to glean gearing/spec info from them is a bad idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkjnz
    If memory serves me right, a fox is a female wolf.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    And you cant explain to me how it works? It's like me saying the world is flat without having any source or evidence... You're probably from some middle-east country where you accuse a woman for cheating and if the woman can't proof that she isn't cheating she will get rocked to death.

  18. #18


    have fun with calculating thats DR on dodge.

    d = dodge

    and here the axact link for u

    http://theincbear.com/dodge-diminishing-returns

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    Thank you for missing the point as well.

    I already said dodge>mastery. I'm not arguing that point. I'm just pointing out faulty logic from a previous post, that seems to stir up debate for no reason because of what I used as an example counter to it.



    Jeez, would have thought this would be obvious .
    ^ is right. And to demonstrate that, look at mastery v. dodge/parry for other tanks. It's better for all of them. Not for druids, but none-the-less, flawed logic is flawed.

  20. #20
    "102% crit chance," lol if we had 100% uptime w/ SD... we wud be gods.... as a bear of course
    You dont remember how op bears were when savage defense proc'd 100% chance off any crit?
    Man i wish they revert it bac :[
    But my bear seems to do fine as a catbear hybrid... I go full mastery so it benefits both specs. At least for H morchok, only fight I've tanked since we haven't gotten to H ultraxion, I generally feel ezier to heal. Sometimes the healers tell me to take dmg cuz they r bored :| So i tell em... ILL TURN MY BACK TO EM gotta <3 bear tanks cuz i do

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