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  1. #1

    Problem with Arms

    Hey I have a question about my dps. I usually play fury, but I recently switched to Arms as I was told that it was a better spec to play in, if I dont have my Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps. So back to the point, when I test out my DPS on the raid dummies, I average about 17-19k dps, and when I am in DS normal, or even FL, I do about 19-20k DPS even with raid buffs. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have checked my gear thoroughly, made sure that my hit is as close as possible to 8% (currently 8.34%) and also made sure that my expertise is at least 26. When I ask my other guild members about what I am doing wrong, they tell me to make sure my gear is optimized and make sure I am enchanting, reforging, gemming right. I checked it all, and double checked with , wowreforge, askmrrobot. Lastly I also did a simulation on simcraft, and it says I should be doing 27041 DPS, but I don't seem to be getting even close to that number.

    My rotation currently is,
    Start off with, battle shout > charge > berzerker rage> rend > colossus smash

    Single Target Rotation: MS > OP > Slam (if MS or OP is on CD), CS (if I need to refresh the CS) and HS when 70+ rage.

    AoE : Spread rend with Thunder Clap > Cleave > sweeping strikes bladestorm

    My armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/spirestone/Proxy/simple (sorry cant post links unless I posted a few times)

    sorry I dont have a log in WoL so I can only provide this amount of information.

    From this type of information, I really don't know if I am either doing my rotation completely wrong, if the rotation is right, am I still prioritizing the skills wrong, or its just my gear in general that I can't pull too much DPS.

    Thanks in Advance!

  2. #2
    i normally spec 3/3 incite, especially since i have the 2pt13, and you should to if you're actually using heroic strike efficiently. you didn't say you dance so im guessing you're not, it can help if done right. i dont even use macros for it, i just have the stances bound
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  3. #3
    Have you been fitting 2 GCDs in b/t each MS? ie: Slam & OP

    It's the same idea as fitting 1 GCD in between each BT as Fury.

    See if that helps

  4. #4
    I see a few points to tune up :
    - you have 378 gear without tier bonuses, get some more better gear, buy T12, run LFR to get 384 T13, stats are correct, don't go for more then 26 exp, you realy don't need it
    - drop blood and thunder, get 3/3 incite
    - drop Drums of war (no use for it), get Blitz (more rage on movement fights is always welcome)
    - i hope you don't use sweeping strikes together with bladestorm ? It doesn't work together anymore
    - with your gear 20k in real figth is decent, not great but it is not bad, real fight is not simulation, you cann't compare it. Get more practice, arms is more difficult then fury. You don't have such strong cd like Deathwish, you have to plan very good your cooldowns (deadly calm, inner rage, blood fury, trinket) to be efficient. Important for arms is, you won't loose a single global cooldown, each has to be filled with some ability. So rage management is important. Dancing isn't that big difference, if you are not in top guild where every dps counts, you don't need to use it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    Have you been fitting 2 GCDs in b/t each MS? ie: Slam & OP

    It's the same idea as fitting 1 GCD in between each BT as Fury.

    See if that helps
    Yea, I am trying that,

    I am doing,

    MS , (Slam, OP, +HS) when MS is on CD and HS only when im around 70-80 rage

  6. #6
    you dont have to stance dance. its not much difference. and it will likely be a dps loss if you cant do it perfectly. but you DO want to change to beserker stance when executing, as you stop using battlestance attacks for the most part.

    your gear looks fine. gems, enchants and reforges are all fine. you have a tiny bit too much hit and expertise, but nothing that is going to make more than a couple hundred dps difference.

    even if you're not full on stance dancing, you want to get 2/2 tactical mastery over blitz. blitz is a negligible amount of rage overall, even on bosses where you charge regularly.

    so it basically comes down to rotation and CD management. obviously make sure you never have an empty gcd.
    when do you use CDs?
    do you save HSs for CS if possible?
    you say you combo sweeping strikes and bladestorm (which is a not recommended), how do you use other CDs?

  7. #7
    Mechagnome
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    I always start with (Battle shout) charge -> MS -> rend -> CS -> MS -> OP -> OP (t13 2 set usually allows me to hit 2x HS inside the first CS duration since double OP's are cheap) -> MS -> (normal priority from now on). This allows me to get 3 stacks of slaughter faster than hitting rend and CS first.

    Since you have apparatus, try to macro it to Deadly Calm (DC) along with blood fury. They all have similar cd's so they work fine together - that way just don't use DC before you get 5 stacks for your trinket, what might be soon as you get that 3 stacks of slaughter, or not, depending on critting RNG... And also wait/pray/time for CS before you waste it! Obviously you should dump rage closer to 0 when you plan hitting DC on.

    Since everything inside DC is free, it's advised to keep HS on cooldown along with normal rotation, and save recklessness either on the execute phase or if the fight is long enough, use it early after DC - When you're still close to 100 rage and CS procs, what allows you to do nice burst with CS -> MS -> Slam -> Slam > MS rotation (plus 1-2 HS's asap if the CS won't proc again in middle of the first one so you can't extend it to be whole 12s duration spam). This is easier to do with t13 4 set with higher chance to get CS up from MS obviously, so when you don't have 4 set and the fight is under 5mins just save it for the execute.

    Sweeping strikes (SS) also can be more devastating if you can align it to be used with DC, so you get nice burst to 2 targets with unlimited rage. Since SS just copies the dmg from your primary target, you should make sure CS is up on the target you're hitting at!

    Other than that, the stable dps with arms comes from hitting your abilities to cd ASAP so you won't have much idle time and you won't delay your main abilities and try to use most colossus procs as the burst window. You just have to practise for it and you'll get it in time for sure. Cooldowns are just more harder to be used efficiently
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2011-12-24 at 01:03 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    I always start with (Battle shout) charge -> MS -> rend -> CS -> MS -> OP -> OP (t13 2 set usually allows me to hit 2x HS inside the first CS duration since double OP's are cheap) -> MS -> (normal priority from now on). This allows me to get 3 stacks of slaughter faster than hitting rend and CS first.

    Since you have apparatus, try to macro it to Deadly Calm (DC) along with blood fury. They all have similar cd's so they work fine together - that way just don't use DC before you get 5 stacks for your trinket, what might be soon as you get that 3 stacks of slaughter, or not, depending on critting RNG... And also wait/pray/time for CS before you waste it! Obviously you should dump rage closer to 0 when you plan hitting DC on.

    Since everything inside DC is free, it's advised to keep HS on cooldown along with normal rotation, and save recklessness either on the execute phase or if the fight is long enough, use it early after DC - When you're still close to 100 rage and CS procs, what allows you to do nice burst with CS -> MS -> Slam -> Slam > MS rotation (plus 1-2 HS's asap if the CS won't proc again in middle of the first one so you can't extend it to be whole 12s duration spam). This is easier to do with t13 4 set with higher chance to get CS up from MS obviously, so when you don't have 4 set and the fight is under 5mins just save it for the execute.

    Sweeping strikes (SS) also can be more devastating if you can align it to be used with DC, so you get nice burst to 2 targets with unlimited rage. Since SS just copies the dmg from your primary target, you should make sure CS is up on the target you're hitting at!

    Other than that, the stable dps with arms comes from hitting your abilities to cd ASAP so you won't have much idle time and you won't delay your main abilities and try to use most colossus procs as the burst window. You just have to practise for it and you'll get it in time for sure. Cooldowns are just more harder to be used efficiently
    Pretty much the most important aspect of playing any dps class. Don't allow yourself to idle. If you're having trouble with TfB procs, I find it best to slam immediately after MS instead of waiting for TfB to proc OP. Most of the time TfB will proc on the next GCD after that slam.

    If you have the 2pc T12 bonus, you can also MS > OP (or slam) > Battle Shout for the 10% increase physical. Best to align this with CS or other sources of dps boost.

  9. #9
    Anyone else read the title and think it had to do with someones arms?
    It's like crossing an intersection. There's shit going on all over the place and you don't panic and act like an idiot then do you?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jzk View Post
    - drop Drums of war (no use for it), get Blitz (more rage on movement fights is always welcome)
    Better yet drop Drums of War and pick up Tactical Mastery so he can start stance-dancing. You can basically automate it with macros for a free ~3% DPS increase.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by unit420 View Post
    -very long text-
    Thanks in Advance!
    all i can reccommend is reading the Arms Sticky, it has all the information needed to do some really nice dps.

    Some tip on AoE though: Drop thunder clap, aka. Blood and Thunder.
    For AoE dps, go with this: You have 3 or 2 targets? Pop SS and DC, spam that Heroic Strike, watch the dps go insane.
    For 4 targets or more, start out with Rend-CS-Cleave-Bladestorm, then procceed with SS and DC if available. This is the formula for high AoE dps. I always find myself high (if not top) on the meters, even without Blood and Thunder.

    Always use HS at 65 or more rage. Go LFR and hope for some T13 drops, the set bonus is gorgeous for High AoE fights (aka all DS fights, nearly) and is easily going to add a few thousands to your dps.

    I stance dance. All the time. With no macros. You don't actually need them in any way if you have a decent ping.
    The flow of TfB is something you get the feel of in time. Usually i find that i can use it after every Ms+Slam+the occasional CS, so stancedancing in the end just comes natural.

    You SHOULD be able to pull everything from 27-30k on the more Patchwerk-like fights in LFR, Morchok or Warmaster P. 2, if you do it right. Good luck!
    The biggest mistake one can make, is not admitting when you're wrong.

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  12. #12
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I have an Arms question and didn't want to start a new thread just for it: Is it normal to be rage starved almost all the time? I'm not in very good Arms gear (mix of 359 and 378 JP gear, with 353 shoulders still) but a lot of times I'll be so low on rage that I have to just wait a GCD or two of autoattacking to even do a MS. I'm doing the priority above, with HS thrown in when I'm around 70 Rage. I use Shout on cooldown since right now I have 2pc T12.
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  13. #13
    Dreadlord Miseration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I have an Arms question and didn't want to start a new thread just for it: Is it normal to be rage starved almost all the time? I'm not in very good Arms gear (mix of 359 and 378 JP gear, with 353 shoulders still) but a lot of times I'll be so low on rage that I have to just wait a GCD or two of autoattacking to even do a MS. I'm doing the priority above, with HS thrown in when I'm around 70 Rage. I use Shout on cooldown since right now I have 2pc T12.
    Maybe you are slamming too often. It does temporary pause your swing timer i believe.

  14. #14
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miseration View Post
    Maybe you are slamming too often. It does temporary pause your swing timer i believe.
    Could be - still learning the Arms system so I might just be too used to Fury where Slam is a frequent thing. For Arms Slam is meant to be a filler correct? Use when MS/OP/CS are all on cooldown and I don't have enough to dump into HS? Which would mean if Shout is up (2pc T12) I could use that instead of Slam if MS/CS will come up within the next GCD?
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  15. #15
    I'd say dualspec Arms twice, one for single target and one for AoE.
    You wont use Fury if geared and reforged for Arms anyway so there really isnt a point to have a dualspec for a spec you cant perform with (unless you have a fury set but i doubt that).
    After that, its just getting used to the rotation and find that balance between running dry on rage and preventing to cap it.

    Dont bother with the stance dancing macros etc until you find the dps that you are ok with and are able to maintain that, its like trying to drift a car before getting your drivers license. Sure in the long run it might be better but without the basics under control your just making it harder for yourself for little to no gain.

    Find a cooldown mod that actively displays your timers on MS, CS, ragebar etc.
    And just practise, 20k on dummy with your gear isnt bad, 20k raidbuffed on a patchwerk style fight isnt really great tho, so you seem to have the rotation down yet once its boss time something causes you to miss something. Figure out what that is and your golden.

    O and as said already; get the tiersetbonus (get legs from jp's) since the setbonus is pretty okish.
    It can be a pain to use but once you get used to it its some solid dps gain.
    And without knowing the figures behind this i'd say switch 2/2 improved execute for 2/2 booming voice, more rage on shouts, faster shouts and more use of the setbonus.
    Might not be perfectly ultimate simcraft best option to go with but you should keeping doing MS,CS etc during execute stage anyway so how often do you really get a 5 stack that you can maintain for a longer period while still having the rage to keep MS, CS etc?
    Last edited by Mascotte; 2011-12-25 at 04:57 PM.

  16. #16
    2/2 execute is far superior over 2/2 booming voice. Execute both hits hard and makes you generate more rage where as booming voice does absolutely nothing but just eat up globals that you should be using for dps abilities.

  17. #17
    I never said Excecute is a bad ability, i just dont really agree with 2 tp's for an ability you can only use 20% of the fight that not even boosts the attack itself just gives you a 25% attackspeed increase after you used it 5 times.
    Booming Voice gives you the ability to shout once every 30 seconds, which using the setbonus triggers a 10% damage done increase for 12 seconds.
    Over the course of a 5 minute fight that means you'll spend 120 seconds (shout once every 30sec thus 10 times, 12 sec buff per use) of the fight in the 10% damage done buff. Thats 40% of the fight duration you have the buff.

    Without damage modifiers in the same fight you would only spend 20% of the fight, thus 1 minute, in execute range in which you have to first build up a 5 stack AND maintain it stacked while still using MS and CS.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascotte View Post
    I never said Excecute is a bad ability, i just dont really agree with 2 tp's for an ability you can only use 20% of the fight that not even boosts the attack itself just gives you a 25% attackspeed increase after you used it 5 times.
    Booming Voice gives you the ability to shout once every 30 seconds, which using the setbonus triggers a 10% damage done increase for 12 seconds.
    Over the course of a 5 minute fight that means you'll spend 120 seconds (shout once every 30sec thus 10 times, 12 sec buff per use) of the fight in the 10% damage done buff. Thats 40% of the fight duration you have the buff.

    Without damage modifiers in the same fight you would only spend 20% of the fight, thus 1 minute, in execute range in which you have to first build up a 5 stack AND maintain it stacked while still using MS and CS.
    The T12 set bonus scales down with Booming Voice, so its only 6 seconds with BV. Execute range is generally when the highest DPS is required (enrage timers, soft enrages or general wipieness most often occur in the last 10% anyways), its ALWAYS going to be better.

  19. #19
    Yeah you gotta re-read the T12 set bonus. Booming Voice has no affect on the total uptime of 2pc T12, and thus is a complete waste of two talent points.

  20. #20
    Booming voice 2/2 is barely a dps increase since,as arms, you'll pretty much need every gcd.So you tradeoff one slam with one heroic strike(with the rage you got from booming voice)+2/3 of a heroic strike(with the rage you didn't use for slam).In the end you gain something like 15k every 30 seconds,which is less than executioner.
    Last edited by smn; 2011-12-27 at 12:33 AM. Reason: syntax errors

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