SWTOR - End Game Raiding

[Askyl]

If 15 Hardcore players made new characters in WoW today, they'll beat hardmode tier 1 Cataclysm raiding in WoW in less then 3 days from the second they make their characters. Now, compare to SW:TORs tier 1.
So yea, from my view SW:TOR looks harder. They haven't even finnished Tier 1 raiding yet.

(Posting about the guild who've done 4/5 bosses in EV nightmare mode)

[Ghul]

One thing that really bugs me about Blizzard is that the content releasing speed is just ridiculous slow.. Sure ppl say it's Blizzard dev time, but for 15 bucks per month.. are you really going to suck it up and be happy with Dragon Soul raid when it's pretty obvious it shouldn't worth 15*5 dollars?

But you are correct that if Bioware pull a Blizzard-like patch release schedule on us, I will be the first one to criticize them as well. It's a wait and see.. So far I am not concerned yet because there are enough contents in SWTOR to keep me busy for months. So even if BW pulled another Blizzard, at least I would still feel my time/money has been worth spent before I unsubscribe.

uhhhhhmmmm, cant you just play the dragonsoul content until youre fed up with it(1 month maybe?) and then stop playing/paying the sub until the next content patch comes around? why paying those 4 months where you know that youre only going to stand in orgrimmar and idle around? isnt that your own damn fault for doing so?

im handling it this way and im sure as hell gonna handle it the same way with sw:tor. after im fed up with leveling up (i guess im gonna make 2 fifties, one imperial and one republican) im just gonna pause the game until the next content patch comes around.

[JustintimeSS]

Hardcore, world first raiders =/= rest of the population playing

This obviously means that the raiding is way too easy right?

Try harder to convince more people to jump on your hate wagon.

[Ghul]

If 15 Hardcore players made new characters in WoW today, they'll beat hardmode tier 1 Cataclysm raiding in WoW in less then 3 days from the second they make their characters. Now, compare to SW:TORs tier 1.
So yea, from my view SW:TOR looks harder. They haven't even finnished Tier 1 raiding yet.

(Posting about the guild who've done 4/5 bosses in EV nightmare mode)

if im not mistaken leveling up a character in sw:tor takes waaaay longer than in wow. ofc theres those shortcutguys who can still do it in 2 days, but there should also be some "hardcores" who enjoy playing the game and take their time with leveling.

also: where the hell are you taking those numbers from? :B

[Domenik]

oh look a paid to play group clear content they could do it that fast in ANY game especially since that group was in guild beta program for months

[Sidonis]

One thing that really bugs me about Blizzard is that the content releasing speed is just ridiculous slow.. Sure ppl say it's Blizzard dev time, but for 15 bucks per month.. are you really going to suck it up and be happy with Dragon Soul raid when it's pretty obvious it shouldn't worth 15*5 dollars?

But you are correct that if Bioware pull a Blizzard-like patch release schedule on us, I will be the first one to criticize them as well. It's a wait and see.. So far I am not concerned yet because there are enough contents in SWTOR to keep me busy for months. So even if BW pulled another Blizzard, at least I would still feel my time/money has been worth spent before I unsubscribe.

Their speed at content release might not be fast, but they're also not charging you extra for those content updates either which they easily could. It's also easy to bash WoW for not updating faster these days when games that are trying to compete with WoW's share of the market place are intentionally releasing with content withheld that's mostly done so they can look productive on rollout by giving you content they've had completed every 2 months.. RIFT did this as well, but their roll out of content has slowed down as well.

Why? Because the rate at which players consume content cannot be kept up with by any gaming company without a serious overhaul in income generation versus staff salary. SW:ToR will hit this same point as well, there's no way they can staff enough developers to keep up with the rate that players will conquer content and clamor for more.

[bondgirl]

Well I dont like SW:TOR but I cant refuse to post here. Get this shit out of the game and dont start bad and let it get worse. Move the fuck out of this game if you come up with nerdstuff. WOW dies from this shit and now give SW:TOR atleast the chance to show up what the ppl @ Bioware have worked for over the last 6 years. WOW started with "hard" stuff and turned out to need to many fucking time to get consumables and whatnot so that you basicly lived infront of your PC. And now that a bunch of partially no lifers have beaten the content within 10 days and not having fun doesnt makes the game too easy. WOW has grown up in difficult and is at a perfect level (ragnaros hc anyone) and its tuned due to a large player base doing the bugfixes (vashj world 1st anyone/LK first "legit" kill anyone).
Just give it some time. Some more determining and maybe, but just maybe, all the ppl who moan about easy content, which they will basicly never beat, stop qqing.

[Pulledtea]

Actually, Irae AOD has taken 2 months to clear EV normal/nightmare. They cleared normal in beta and it took them a month, what with the bugs and server tests still going on (reminiscent of the first month of ICC, Sunwell and BT with the bugs that hindered progression so much). Furthermore, they were allowed to test the first 2 bosses on nightmare if I'm not mistaken. Part of their raid group, but I had to take a break for personal reasons whilst the group were doing nightmare mode. Thanks though for the support guys. It's about the same difficulty, if not more, than WoW. Whoever posted that thread on the original forums has not actually paid much attention to our progress.

Edit: Mods, lock this thread please. IT's going to turn into a flame war.

[Imnick]

If 15 Hardcore players made new characters in WoW today, they'll beat hardmode tier 1 Cataclysm raiding in WoW in less then 3 days from the second they make their characters. Now, compare to SW:TORs tier 1.
So yea, from my view SW:TOR looks harder. They haven't even finnished Tier 1 raiding yet.

(Posting about the guild who've done 4/5 bosses in EV nightmare mode)

but you can get better gear more easily from heroics 5 mans than tier 1 cataclysm raids and then use it to stomp BoT, it's not a very good comparison :U

[The Ogdru Jahad]

This is why I'm going to wait a month before I consider buying the game...want to see its ability to last. Looks hopeful though!

[Will]

Their speed at content release might not be fast, but they're also not charging you extra for those content updates either which they easily could. It's also easy to bash WoW for not updating faster these days when games that are trying to compete with WoW's share of the market place are intentionally releasing with content withheld that's mostly done so they can look productive on rollout by giving you content they've had completed every 2 months.. RIFT did this as well, but their roll out of content has slowed down as well.

Why? Because the rate at which players consume content cannot be kept up with by any gaming company without a serious overhaul in income generation versus staff salary. SW:ToR will hit this same point as well, there's no way they can staff enough developers to keep up with the rate that players will conquer content and clamor for more.

Sorry but that's not fully correct. Blizzard are making utterly filthy amounts of money; greatly in excess of the 'costs' of developing content, as it goes.

Content is deliberately staggered in order to suck as much money out of subscribers as possible; too short a gap between releases and people can't keep up. Too long and they get bored. Thus, a balance is sought whereby new content is released after existing content has had time to stretch itself.

This isn't me being pessimistic because I have some kind of problem with the game - it's merely basic business sense. As a company, they want to maximise profits - no questions asked.

[Alta87]

There are 2 end game raids with each having 3 lvls of difficulty (I think Normal, Heroic and Nightmare) I'm not sure how it is cause I didn't play beta or anything but it's certainly ahead of WoW when WoW was first released..

You do realize WoW was realeased 6-7 years ago? It's like going ahead 10 years in time and saying.. "Yes, this samsung galaxy 40 is definatly better then the original Iphone"..............

ON topic, Havent tried it yet, but am just as you mighty concerned if they managed to pull off some good end game content. Leveling only keeps you going for so long..

[Semihage]

Their speed at content release might not be fast, but they're also not charging you extra for those content updates either which they easily could. It's also easy to bash WoW for not updating faster these days when games that are trying to compete with WoW's share of the market place are intentionally releasing with content withheld that's mostly done so they can look productive on rollout by giving you content they've had completed every 2 months.. RIFT did this as well, but their roll out of content has slowed down as well.

Why? Because the rate at which players consume content cannot be kept up with by any gaming company without a serious overhaul in income generation versus staff salary. SW:ToR will hit this same point as well, there's no way they can staff enough developers to keep up with the rate that players will conquer content and clamor for more.

Yeah but 5 month for DS raid which has so much recycled model it's just plain bad.

A typical game dev budget (a brand new game!) cost about 30 million per year (WoW was 100 million over 5 years). These are before all the marketing cost... etc. With 15 bucks per month.. you can easily have 3-4 teams working at the same time churning out contents while still making profits.. Just looking at the quality and speed of WoW patches.. You know they aren't.

[Sidonis]

but you can get better gear more easily from heroics 5 mans than tier 1 cataclysm raids and then use it to stomp BoT, it's not a very good comparison :U

It's a great comparison so long as you're intelligent enough to realize on your own that he's talking about Cataclysm launch, and not Cataclysm right now.

[Askyl]

but you can get better gear more easily from heroics 5 mans than tier 1 cataclysm raids and then use it to stomp BoT, it's not a very good comparison :U

True, to compare Tier 1 raiding in Cataclysm to Tier 1 raiding in SW:TOR is a stupid idéa. WoWs so freakin eazy you can go do 5mans that require no skill at all and get amazing loot. Also LFR.

[Zubacz]

If 15 Hardcore players made new characters in WoW today, they'll beat hardmode tier 1 Cataclysm raiding in WoW in less then 3 days from the second they make their characters.

No they won't. They wouldn't even hit max level in that time. Let's assume they do though. They will need to clear the normal instances first to have access to heroic. But even if they wouln'd need to do that, there is no way they would have the gear to beat enrage timers on any heroic boss. (Unless of course, you count the possibility of using 4.1-4.3 5-man gear, but that's not really the point, is it?).

You Sir either have no clue or are counting on people who read this to be clueless.

Downing content so fast in SW:TOR is a big problem because it means that the good players need absolutely no gear to beat the hardest content. That implies that the bad players will outgear it within weeks. So, unless Bioware is ready to release new content every month or so, people will lose interest very soon.

[Libertarian]

The whole "WoW is 7 years old" is a old beaten dead horse.

With any sort of new product entering the market must directly compete with what is available now. There is not a single product in any sector of industry that you could say "Well such and such product has been out for 7 years, so give it time to mature!". The fact is WoW is out now, and has the market share. If you're going to create a game similar to WoW, such as SWTOR, you have to have basic features similar to WoW. Or create an entirely new game with a different set of rules.

[Grogo]

Sooo, ignore wow in this thread for now. Getting ugly. Just info on the raiding part

[Zhira]

How people can judge an entire game from the first tier of raiding is beyond me........

I play SWToR because of the journey, not the goal. Personally I care very little for other guilds progress because this type of behavior usually ruins the gameplay. Some of you people say the game is too easy because an elite group of raiders downs content. If Bioware made content that would take elite raiders weeks / months to down, then 98% of the playerbase would not be able to kill content and thus probably leave the game. THAT, my dear friends, would be a economical disaster for the company.

Whether you like it or not, an MMO should never cater the hardcore players, simply because they are such a small percentage of the population. If, in 3 months time, 75%+ of the SWToR guilds have down Nightmare content, we can have this discussion again .

Personally I look forward to experiencing the rest of the leveling process and then maybe do a little raiding with 7 friends.

[Imnick]

It's a great comparison so long as you're intelligent enough to realize on your own that he's talking about Cataclysm launch, and not Cataclysm right now.

But he said "today"