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  1. #1

    BM - Haste being # 1 stat...over Agility?

    Hey all,

    I've been pretty lucky with drops and have a vast majority of my gear containing mastery. At this point I am sitting at 29% crit, 12% haste, 86% mastery 2% vers. Running my numbers through the new simulations it is showing that HASTE (I'm assuming because my haste is so low) outranks all of the other stats, including agility point for point.

    Does this seem right, or could I be doing something wrong with my calculations?

    Thanks!
    Uniel

  2. #2
    since i don't see sims/logs/profile etc to see what trinkets/leggos etc you are running. I would assume your low haste is adversely affected the number of kill commands you get during bestial wrath, at least in the sim, and that the sim thinks you're very close to some break point that may or may not be there for you in actual play.

    If you're uncertain of the result try increasing the latency/lowering the skill on the sim and see how that effects the sims. You can also try a stat plot or manually adding 200-500 haste( preferably while removing an equal amount of crit/mastery) and seeing if its stat weight drops dramatically. And while doing so see if something like the number of Kill commands/BW uptime/Avg dmg of Kill command etc go up.

  3. #3
    High Overlord DekyD's Avatar
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    Could be because the soft cap for haste is at 20-22% for you to be able to fit in and stack dire frenzy during bloodlust or other haste buffs.

    Y u heff to sank the worlds wolf?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vurrin View Post
    since i don't see sims/logs/profile etc to see what trinkets/leggos etc you are running. I would assume your low haste is adversely affected the number of kill commands you get during bestial wrath, at least in the sim, and that the sim thinks you're very close to some break point that may or may not be there for you in actual play.

    If you're uncertain of the result try increasing the latency/lowering the skill on the sim and see how that effects the sims. You can also try a stat plot or manually adding 200-500 haste( preferably while removing an equal amount of crit/mastery) and seeing if its stat weight drops dramatically. And while doing so see if something like the number of Kill commands/BW uptime/Avg dmg of Kill command etc go up.
    Good point, here is an armory link: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch.../draenor/uniel

    Trinkets become the tough part, because from my understanding the Sims can't correctly calculate trinket effects, right? I have an 880 BTI, so that helps with the haste proc. It is more difficult to keep the 3rd proc on DF now (I haven't verified this with logs, but it feels like it), but having the shoulders help with that.

    What I'm mainly interested in is how accurate those stat weights truly are and if it is taking into account the shoulders (less of a need to have haste to maintain 3 stacks of DF) and trinket procs like the BTI provides.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster
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    yes that seems very correct...
    Why would you question that?
    Haste,mastery and crit can all be your best stat and higher than agi. Depends how much/little you have of either.

  6. #6
    Yes, the less a stat you have, the more valuable it becomes.

  7. #7
    100% correct, your haste is way too low

  8. #8
    it always depends... u need to sim urself

  9. #9
    I have haste and crit around 20% and approx 85% mastery and agi is #1 stat for me. Notably haste, crit and mastery have the same value in this case.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vurrin View Post
    I would assume your low haste is adversely affected the number of kill commands you get during bestial wrath, at least in the sim, and that the sim thinks you're very close to some break point that may or may not be there for you in actual play.
    No...

    there is a haste "soft cap" that helps keep dire frenzy 3 stacks up during heroism.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Uniel View Post
    Hey all,

    I've been pretty lucky with drops and have a vast majority of my gear containing mastery. At this point I am sitting at 29% crit, 12% haste, 86% mastery 2% vers. Running my numbers through the new simulations it is showing that HASTE (I'm assuming because my haste is so low) outranks all of the other stats, including agility point for point.

    Does this seem right, or could I be doing something wrong with my calculations?

    Thanks!
    Uniel
    Dire Frenzy 3 stacks during heroism.

    I see the same thing....my haste went from 12% to 15% and the difference in weights for smaller...they should disappear when you get around 20% haste.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Exerlol View Post
    it always depends... u need to sim urself
    I did, and thus the question about what the sims said were my stat weights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    No...

    there is a haste "soft cap" that helps keep dire frenzy 3 stacks up during heroism.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Dire Frenzy 3 stacks during heroism.

    I see the same thing....my haste went from 12% to 15% and the difference in weights for smaller...they should disappear when you get around 20% haste.
    Thanks, that definitely helps - I was just questioning the output from the sims and hesitant to change my enchant/gems for one of my rings to haste in case I was missing something. Got it changed and now sitting at 16% haste, 86% mastery and 25% crit....if I can get crit down to around 21 and haste to 20 I'll be happy.

  12. #12
    Stat Weights
    Agi
    23.86
    Haste
    23.72
    Mastery
    21.81
    Crit
    20.32
    Vers
    17.93

    For Patchwerk, 5min

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DekyD View Post
    Could be because the soft cap for haste is at 20-22% for you to be able to fit in and stack dire frenzy during bloodlust or other haste buffs.
    Yeah this is it

  14. #14
    Just simed my BM hunter and right now Haste > Mastery > AGI > Versa > Crit. The Haste/Mastery/AGI numbers are really close though.

    Only sitting at about 12% haste and about 30% crit.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    Just simed my BM hunter and right now Haste > Mastery > AGI > Versa > Crit. The Haste/Mastery/AGI numbers are really close though.

    Only sitting at about 12% haste and about 30% crit.
    I had a similar result with 11% haste. Is there some kind of plateau, because when i reached 13%, haste really dropped in value, A LOT. Like from 1.1 to 0.45.

  16. #16
    There is no plateau from what I've heard. But w/ shoulders and everything, it likes me to keep my haste ~19-20% and then it starts valuing the other stats more. Agi is always my #1 regardless.

  17. #17
    There are in fact several soft caps for haste currently for a BM hunter. First one is around 20%. At this point you will be able to mantain 100% uptime on Dire Frenzy during bloodlust / heroism, mantle or not. Basically that means that your pet is attacking at a speed of 126%+haste for the whole duration. It also applies to bosses with haste bonuses like Ellisande or Guldan. I do not think you can reach 100% uptime with current gear without additional haste effects though.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    There are in fact several soft caps for haste currently for a BM hunter. First one is around 20%. At this point you will be able to mantain 100% uptime on Dire Frenzy during bloodlust / heroism, mantle or not. Basically that means that your pet is attacking at a speed of 126%+haste for the whole duration. It also applies to bosses with haste bonuses like Ellisande or Guldan. I do not think you can reach 100% uptime with current gear without additional haste effects though.
    You only need 15.4% Haste to be able to keep 100% uptime on DF.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    You only need 15.4% Haste to be able to keep 100% uptime on DF.
    Unless I missed something, you need 50% haste to make 8sec DF reset. 12secs / (1+0.5) in total. Bloodlust/heroism gives you 30% and the rest should come from gear. Therefore, outside of a reliance on a mantle in the current live iteration, or things like troll racial or bloodthirsty instinct, I do not see how that is possible with only 15.4%. With that amount of haste you can only achieve 8.25sec cd unless you use haste trinkets or something along the lines of a troll racial.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    Unless I missed something, you need 50% haste to make 8sec DF reset. 12secs / (1+0.5) in total. Bloodlust/heroism gives you 30% and the rest should come from gear. Therefore, outside of a reliance on a mantle in the current live iteration, or things like troll racial or bloodthirsty instinct, I do not see how that is possible with only 15.4%. With that amount of haste you can only achieve 8.25sec cd unless you use haste trinkets or something along the lines of a troll racial.
    Haste buffs are multiplicative.

    8(DF duration) / 12(DF CD) / 1.3(BL haste) = 1.1538.... = ~1.154

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