Arena in SWTOR would work amazingly well

[Glorious Leader]

'. I'm not just saying I don't like Tor pvp or that it's trash, I'm giving you factual reasons that are swaying my opinion on the subject.

Theirs a certain degree of presumption that goes into your posts. It's likely my interpretation of your posts but when you say

LOL? Pvp in SWTOR is terrible in general, .

Incidentally that is exactly what you are saying. It's presumptuous. You are of course more than welcome to your opinion but you should definitely tone some of the rhetoric down. I'm sure you consider it terrible, does that mean it actually is. No not really. It's fun, just not fun for you.

[Paranoid Android]

I heard this for Rift and now of course SWTOR for us to have arenas. If you want to play arena just play WoW. I think Rift and SWTOR get it that arena was a real bad idea because it made the already pvp balance a difficult job and addin arena would just magnify this even more.

[Kouki]

I heard this for Rift and now of course SWTOR for us to have arenas. If you want to play arena just play WoW. I think Rift and SWTOR get it that arena was a real bad idea because it made the already pvp balance a difficult job and addin arena would just magnify this even more.

The problem is pvp in most games was a second thought. it was not part of class development or at least did not feel like it was.

Wow Arena to me is where pvp is the most ballanced, in theory, but the classes need to work better.

In Swtor the pvp is worse imo all around because you cant tweak your toon when you cant see a combat log.

[Omniclass]

It's not just the lack of macros. It's the way the game is designed, including the lack of macros. Going from a constant 30-60 FPS with settings turned all the way up, in space ports and on planets, to 10-15 FPS in Warzones with everything turned down (changing settings does not improve performance even with a client restart) is frustrating. Not being able to see the target of my target is frustrating. Not being able to bind more abilities without awkward key presses is frustrating, especially as a class that can heal in addition to DPS.

The FPS is a valid arguement not going to deny you that one.

Not being able to use 3rd party support to enhance the look/feel of controlling and playing my character is frustrating. Not being able to think ahead and multitask abilities efficiently is frustrating. Having to deal with some tool bag who's 25 levels higher than me, chasing me around with better gear, more abilities, and a bigger talent pool to choose from, is incredibly frustrating when no matter what I do I can't beat him, even when I am clearly out playing him.

3rd party programs have their ups and downs. You can kill someone 25 levels higher than you gear is normalized aside from level 40's in full pvp set getting pumped up alot higher from teh buff because of how it works. If you out play them you will kill them assuming they aren't really outplaying you and you have a biased opinion of yourself and your skill level. Being able to think ahead is a L2P issue if i have ever seen one as this is not limited by anything but your cognitive processes.

Not being able to out heal the damage of a single player playing a ranged class, not being able to effectively peel, and watching as melee can't out DPS heals, is frustrating. All my abilities being variations of the same purple lightning, is frustrating. All these things together add up to a largely frustrating pvp experience, even for someone who isn't a glad level player and enjoys BGs far more than arena (me). Many of these things are tolerable or non issues while questing or doing flashpoints, because those things are tuned to be casual enough for even the most inexperienced players.

You're peels interrupts cc etc come with levels. you are playing as a sorc which some say has too much utility. /patience

When it comes to pvp though, it's an inherently competitive form of game play in any game that has it - there is no casual about it. You can't design pvp that's fun and engaging for both casual players and competitive players without alienating one of the two. While many people would argue that Tor is a casual game, they have announced that they are adding rated BGs at some point along with new maps.

You are looking at casual in a negative light assuming it equals skill or anything else but amount of time invested. You can, once rated bg's and possible arenas are implemented make bgs fun for both. However that is only assuming the less invested crowd understand they are at a disadvantage.

Rated pvp definitely isn't casual, and if they have any hope that it will be even remotely successful, they really do need to look at fixing many of the things that I've pointed out.

You have a few valid point however your needs are not necessary for rated pvp to be successful.

[Deleted]

nah causes to much problems, i like that they dont have to spend nerfing and buffing players, theyve gone for the "some classes are op deal with it" option

[Eroginous]

Theirs a certain degree of presumption that goes into your posts.

Presumption? ROFL. Make way for the guys who defend this game, insisting that things are 'well enough' and don't need improvement.

Incidentally that is exactly what you are saying. It's presumptuous. You are of course more than welcome to your opinion but you should definitely tone some of the rhetoric down. I'm sure you consider it terrible, does that mean it actually is. No not really. It's fun, just not fun for you.

Actually, reading comprehension is for the WIN, in your case. I stated:

I'm not just saying I don't like Tor pvp or that it's trash

Meaning that in addition to saying the pvp in the game is terrible (by any meaningful standard) I am also listing factual reasons why. This is important because it gives you some basis for which to give my statement credibility. It's like if we were talking about a new movie that you hadn't seen. "Dude, I went and saw the new Twilight movie, it was trash.' No matter how you feel about the books, movies, or IP, you have no reason to take anything I say seriously, if I just tell you that it's trash.

But if I say that it's trash, and provide factual information to support my claim, then you can give my claim more weight (even if you tend to disagree) and then we can establish some sort of credibility with what I am saying, instead of writing me off as a hopeless troll (as much as you keep trying to write me off as a troll).

I heard this for Rift and now of course SWTOR for us to have arenas. If you want to play arena just play WoW. I think Rift and SWTOR get it that arena was a real bad idea because it made the already pvp balance a difficult job and addin arena would just magnify this even more.

Okay, why is it that if I want a particular feature in a game, I have to play X game to get it? That's like saying 'if you want multi player support in Final Fantasy 3, you should just go play Super Mario Bros.' It's not unreasonable to expect a game to conform to the standards of the genre it's in, when regards to common features found in the genre.

The FPS is a valid arguement not going to deny you that one.

Well, I am glad we can agree on something.

3rd party programs have their ups and downs. You can kill someone 25 levels higher than you gear is normalized aside from level 40's in full pvp set getting pumped up alot higher from teh buff because of how it works. If you out play them you will kill them assuming they aren't really outplaying you and you have a biased opinion of yourself and your skill level. Being able to think ahead is a L2P issue if i have ever seen one as this is not limited by anything but your cognitive processes.

Third party programs are only necessary to fill the gaps where the developer just chose not to utilize design space or where they designed something that just doesn't work nearly as well as it should. If Tor added UI customization including skins and and positioning, then people wouldn't need to write an addon for that. Blizzard knows that there are specific things that the fans want, but they won't have the resources to implement it in a way that meets everyone's expectations.

I'm not saying that I can't play without addons, I'm saying that at some point people are going to have a frustrating time with the game because they aren't able to do something that they should be able to do, and the game does not allow for a 3rd party to create the tools that could fill those gaps. Think of how long it takes Blizzard to make changes within the game. Do you really want to be at the mercy of Bio Ware to add X feature according to their own timeline?

You're peels interrupts cc etc come with levels. you are playing as a sorc which some say has too much utility. /patience

How much utility I have at my current level isn't the point, it's how much utility I have in comparison to someone 25 levels higher than me. It's that no matter how well I use my limited resources, this other person can play BADLY and still beat me because they have a couple extra abilities to counter whatever I can do. Or a higher dps output due to more talents and better gear.

You are looking at casual in a negative light assuming it equals skill or anything else but amount of time invested. You can, once rated bg's and possible arenas are implemented make bgs fun for both. However that is only assuming the less invested crowd understand they are at a disadvantage.

No, the term 'casual' is an antonym for 'competitive.' They are polar opposites. The whole problem that is created by housing both casual and competitive players in the same space is that the casuals will always look at the situation as an unfair one and seek to displace the competitive players. The point being that NO MATTER WHAT at least one player type is going to be unhappy with the situation. You can't please everyone, and it stands to reason that the people who deserve to be pleased in pvp are the ones who are competitive in nature and adhering to the designed and intended mode of game play that is known as pvp.

If you throw a steak on the ground between two starving wolves, the entire idea behind that is a fight to the death over survival. Not to give the casual starving wolf the same amount of steak as the competitive wolf. The fact that there is even pvp in Tor, shows that Bio Ware intends to provide players with a place where they can be hungry wolves fighting to the death over steak. The fact that they are talking about adding rated WZs to the game, shows that they want competitive players to pay attention to Tor.

If they truly want competitive players to give Tor the time of day, then maybe they should first fix the things that would definitely keep competitive players away, don't you think?

You have a few valid point however your needs are not necessary for rated pvp to be successful.

My 'needs' aren't reflective of the population of people who would enjoy the game even if pvp didn't exist. My 'needs' are reflective of what myself and others would expect from any MMO that offers a pvp experience. You have to remember, Tor is not just a game, it's a franchise, intended to make money in addition to giving players a good gaming experience. Every person (even if they were a minority) who doesn't like Tor because of X missing feature, is one less person who's not buying/subscribing to the game, in turn taking extra revenue out of BioWare's and EA's pockets, limiting how much they can do to continue game development.

Other MMOs have gone under because they just don't give the fans the experience they expect (one of them was even a SW MMO). What makes you think that Tor is somehow immune?

[SoCal]

No, the term 'casual' is an antonym for 'competitive.' They are polar opposites. The whole problem that is created by housing both casual and competitive players in the same space is that the casuals will always look at the situation as an unfair one and seek to displace the competitive players.

I went "casual" when I had a kid; that only means my play time(s) can very widely - by no means at all am I not just as competitive as you. It will take me longer to get to X gear level; but dont say just because RL>game means my attitude towards goals are any different.

[voidillusion]

I have the feeling that any MMO, not only SW, will have to be a exact copy of WoW and have everything it has to please some ppl.

Some of you really have to understand something, if you dont like the game, cool, don't play it, fuck off. Me, and some other ppl in this thread already said we have FUN as it is, who are you to trash ppl who are actullay having FUN in this GAME as it is.

Dont like it, dont play it! Dont force it to be a WoW clone with every single feature.

[Deleted]

Dont like it, dont play it! Dont force it to be a WoW clone with every single feature.

A world without criticism would be a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible world.

[voidillusion]

A world without criticism would be a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible world.

Agree, but sometimes flaming is confused with criticism isnt it?

[Usagi Senshi]

Theirs a certain degree of presumption that goes into your posts. It's likely my interpretation of your posts but when you say



Incidentally that is exactly what you are saying. It's presumptuous. You are of course more than welcome to your opinion but you should definitely tone some of the rhetoric down. I'm sure you consider it terrible, does that mean it actually is. No not really. It's fun, just not fun for you.

The same guys who made the PVP systems in TOR (Mythic) made much much much better pvp systems in Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online (which was terrible but still fun). TOR pvp is a turd by comparison (cept for Huttball but that isn't enough).

[extinction1337]

JK/SW are just plain weak as crud. You feel sorry for them. Until you're in Huttball, that is.

I don't.

2 jugs + 2 or more sorcs = instant win in huttball

nope don't feel sorry for them at all

[Adeodatus]

I dont approve of arenas but i'm all for rated warzones or something similar.

I complety agree, coming from the prespective of a PvE player, you need to find ways to take care of your PvP playerbase. If you leave them hanging, they'll quit, simple as that. But arenas just break balance for everybody.

[Deleted]

Arena is only acceptable if it's just another form of pvp. That means:
*NO superior rewards to other forms of pvp.
*NO class balancing based on it, if it means it's affecting other forms of pvp as well as pve.
*NO forcing players to do it in order to stay competitive in other forms of pvp.
*NO easier access to rewards compared to other forms of pvp (Ex: getting gear faster and easier)


If BW adds arena while keeping these points in mind, I don't have a problem with it as it doesn't affect me one bit.

Pretty much sumed up my opinion.
What was bad in WoW's arena is the gear discrepency it created. (and the douchebaggery aswell)

I'm eager to run rated WZ with my little pvp guild I created though.

[MKing]

Keep ESports in MOBA,RTS,FPS please, kthxbai.

[SiNz]

No, just no.

Arena was the worst thing to be implemented into WoW.

And with the current state of PvP in SWTOR, bringing in a whole other dimension and the ton of problems that come with it (7 years of balancing now is it for WoW? Or have they finally just given up *cough* Frost mages ).

FIX THE CURRENT ISSUES FIRST.

[Koalachan]

I don't.

2 jugs + 2 or more sorcs = instant win in huttball

nope don't feel sorry for them at all

He says "until you're in hutt ball" then you say "instant win in hutt ball." You basically just agreed with him, but said you don't agree with him. Also, how is it instant win if its on both sides? Do both sides instantly win?

OT: If you want an arena game, go play an arena game. Keep it out of RPGs. As soon as it gets put in one, that's all the game ever becomes about.

[Kawlisse]

My 2 cents, you want arena go play wow !!! TOR is good the way it is...

[Shyzhi]

If bioware ever add arena to swtor i will delete the game the moment i find out. I dont want arena in TOR as imo it ruined WoW pvp for me. In vanilla i loved my world pvp battles black rock mountain, Sillithus and so on. Rated warzones are coming and i like that, I feel warzones will be fun with 8 of you on vent in huttball screaming "PASS ME THE BALL!!!" and things :P Arena - NO!, Rated Warzones - Fun! :P