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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    What solid reasoning, complete with actual examples for all of your claims!
    Going to go with this statement, lots of facts in there OP. Everyone has an opinion, when yours is a negative one you dont ALWAYS have to make a thread about it.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    Zzzz the first act in normal of Diablo II was even more easy than the initial act of Diablo 3
    No it wasn't. Here's a short list of monsters in Act 1 that could easily one or two-shot you:

    - Treehead Woodfist
    - Andariel
    - Rakanishu
    - the Smith
    - Griswold
    - any random Champion with a certain set of affixes

    Admit it: D2 Act 1 was way, way, WAY more diffucult than D3 Act 1. Skeleton king in D3 can only kill you if you go afk for a minute.
    Last edited by Commander; 2012-01-03 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #63
    the fact that a mob can two shot does not mean that the game is being difficult mean that that particular mob is bad tuned ecept a boss that has need to be slightly so.

    I pointed out that the "first act" of Diablo II is easy and that the equivalent of the current beta in Diablo II would be the game up to the Smith (sorry I called it the butcher, my bad)

    While you can tell that the Smith could two shot you, arriving at him is as easy or even more easy than arriving to the Skeleton King, I remember that to not get bored I had to build my own challenge by going around and collect more mobs and then kill them.

    The fact that the Skeleton King can't do so is an improvement, because the game will have smoother learning curve instead of freely making you kill tons of mob with ease and then pit you with something that completely destroy you with no warning whatsoever.

    Putting in a mob that just kill you in the midst of a game where the average mob is just pitiful, is not good game design by a long shot.

    Please do not quote only the part of my post that makes convenient for you to make a point.

    I can accept if someone tell me that the Skeleton King is too easy, because it is. If you tell me that the act one is too easy then definitely no. First it is just "not difficult" but that's just what an average player expect from the "easy difficulty level" of a game. And second, and I cannot stress enough about this, we have not see the whole act 1. The real boss of the act may even kill your character because you are not facing it at the appropriate angle or because you made an improper remark on Teamspeak as far as we know
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2012-01-04 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by tibben View Post
    It's a beta. Too easy? You played the first section of the first act on normal mode and it's too easy. Wow. Good for you. That's like saying math is too easy because you mastered single digit addition. Nevermind Ring Theory or Field Theory or Number Theory. Those weren't in the "beta", but since the first level of math is easy, all math must be easy. Good hypothesis, but I'd like to see a proof.
    This man speaks the truth!

    If you have any problem whatsoever with Diablo 3 being "too easy", please read the above comment again and again till you understand the point of it.
    Signature.. Am I doing this right?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    the fact that a mob can two shot does not mean that the game is being difficult mean that that particular mob is bad tuned ecept a boss that has need to be slightly so.

    I pointed out that the "first act" of Diablo II is easy and that the equivalent of the current beta in Diablo II would be the game up to the Smith (sorry I called it the butcher, my bad)

    While you can tell that the Smith could two shot you, arriving at him is as easy or even more easy than arriving to the Skeleton King, I remember that to not get bored I had to build my own challenge by going around and collect more mobs and then kill them.

    The fact that the Skeleton King can't do so is an improvement, because the game will have smoother learning curve instead of freely making you kill tons of mob with ease and then pit you with something that completely destroy you with no warning whatsoever.

    Putting in a mob that just kill you in the midst of a game where the average mob is just pitiful, is not good game design by a long shot.

    Please do not quote only the part of my post that makes convenient for you to make a point.

    I can accept if someone tell me that the Skeleton King is too easy, because it is. If you tell me that the act one is too easy then definitely no. First it is just "not difficult" but that's just what an average player expect from the "easy difficulty level" of a game. And second, and I cannot stress enough about this, we have not see the whole act 1. The real boss of the act may even kill your character because you are not facing it at the appropriate angle or because you made an improper remark on Teamspeak as far as we know
    Look, I simply want the game to be challenging to have any interest in the game whatsoever. D2 Normal difficulty was definitely challenging, especially if you were playing a non-mainstream spec.

    D3 Normal difficulty, on the other hand, is supposed to be a tutorial and extra easy. Now why on earth would I want a tutorial that takes like 10 hours to complete?!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    No it wasn't. Here's a short list of monsters in Act 1 that could easily one or two-shot you:

    - Treehead Woodfist
    - Andariel
    - Rakanishu
    - the Smith
    - Griswold
    - any random Champion with a certain set of affixes

    Admit it: D2 Act 1 was way, way, WAY more diffucult than D3 Act 1. Skeleton king in D3 can only kill you if you go afk for a minute.

    I recently went through Act 1 on a Sorceress. I'm horrible at this game. The farthest I've ever been is halfway through Nightmare. The only random champions that hurt were LEs and that's because that affix was broken. Andariel is the only hard thing in that list, and she's at the end of Act 1. The Skeleton King is basically Blood Raven. I beat Blood Raven as a 10 year old with a necromancer who put literally no points in vitality and had probably the worst skill build you could possibly imagine and well, gear like what you'd expect. It wasn't very easy, but I did it. The first third of D2 Act 1 was a pushover.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-04 at 12:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    Look, I simply want the game to be challenging to have any interest in the game whatsoever. D2 Normal difficulty was definitely challenging, especially if you were playing a non-mainstream spec.

    D3 Normal difficulty, on the other hand, is supposed to be a tutorial and extra easy. Now why on earth would I want a tutorial that takes like 10 hours to complete?!
    No, what's in beta at the tutorial. Normal mode is just easy mode and we currently have no idea how it's tuned. Don't make stuff up.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    Don't make stuff up.
    I don't have. Blizzard themselves have said Normal mode is going to be, quote: "very easy". I don't have the exact blue post but they did say so.

    I find it strange people won't admit the obvious fact that D2 Normal was at times pretty challenging. I honestly won't believe you if you say Duriel or Diablo were easy, no matter what class you were playing. And these are just two examples.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by doesnotcare View Post
    hellgate would have been a good game if they hadn't pushed it out so quick. diablo fans were really willing to give that thing a chance but they just pushed it out way too hard and way too fast and so what came out was a pile of steaming dog shit
    Dont forgett that EA implemented a subsciption fee on Hellgate... another major reason why a RPG failed that did not otherwise contain any MMORPG elements :/

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    Look, I simply want the game to be challenging to have any interest in the game whatsoever. D2 Normal difficulty was definitely challenging, especially if you were playing a non-mainstream spec.

    D3 Normal difficulty, on the other hand, is supposed to be a tutorial and extra easy. Now why on earth would I want a tutorial that takes like 10 hours to complete?!
    You have NO idea how the game will be tuned after Normal Act 1, so don't say the game is not challenging until you actually have played the whole game.

    Sure, those who have played Diablo 2 before and understands how Diablo 3 works will think like that... BUT, everyone who will play Diablo 3 might not even have played Diablo 2 before, how would you get them to find any interest in the game if they can't do anything because its too hard for them?

    I haven't been in the beta, yet, so i cant tell how easy/hard Normal Act 1 is, but for completely new players, it may turn out to be a bit challenging.
    And stop overreacting with how long time it takes, i really doubt Act 1 or first part of Act 1 will take 10 hours to complete.
    In Diablo 2, you could easily be in atleast Act 2, maybe even Act 3 after 10 hours.
    But if it really is true that it takes 10 hours in Diablo 3, that means Diablo 3 is more challenging than Diablo 2, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    I don't have. Blizzard themselves have said Normal mode is going to be, quote: "very easy". I don't have the exact blue post but they did say so.

    I find it strange people won't admit the obvious fact that D2 Normal was at times pretty challenging. I honestly won't believe you if you say Duriel or Diablo were easy, no matter what class you were playing. And these are just two examples.
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...6401?page=5#82
    "Normal difficulty is intentionally very easy.
    And this is especially true in the very first sections of the game.
    We want players to get used to the game, its mechanics, the hero they're using, and so forth.

    Higher difficulty levels will be the real deal. Inferno is definitely not going to be a piece of cake. Tears will be shed. Lots of them. But the joy of overcoming these challenges will be huge indeed! "

    There you got the whole explanation, from a blue poster.
    Take a extra look at the last part of what he said, then stop stating that the game is not challenging.
    Normal difficulty WILL be easy, so NEW PLAYERS can get to learn the game, which hopefully will prevent people from calling them "noobs" and telling them to "L2P"
    Last edited by Lightstar; 2012-01-04 at 09:15 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mancerot View Post
    There you got the whole explanation, from a blue poster.
    Take a extra look at the last part of what he said, then stop stating that the game is not challenging.
    Normal difficulty WILL be easy, so NEW PLAYERS can get to learn the game, which hopefully will prevent people from calling them "noobs" and telling them to "L2P"
    Thanks for quoting what I just read earlier today, I really appreciate that.

    Again, I (and the vast majority of players judging by the number of these threads) DO NOT WANT Normal to be super easy. As I said, a tutorial that takes up to 10-12 hours to complete is terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE game design, I shouldn't have to explain why. Is it that hard to comprehend? A game is only fun as long as there's at least SOME challenge. Especially if that game is of the hack'n'slash genre.

    Also, I am not a "new player" and I don't understand why exactly the game has to be ruined just so a couple newbies won't be called names (which they will anyway as WoW has proven lots of times no matter how often Blizzard nerfs that game).

    I'm tired of that PC crap when normal people have to suffer because a tiny minority of players are horrible. I'm tired of not being able to call a retard what he really is. This policy has already turned your country into one huge mess where the rights of the natives are horribly abused just so people like you can feel good about themselves. I appreciate your right to be proud of being able to call Stockholm the rape capital of Europe but please don't go online and act like your infantile leftist way of thinking is normal or acceptable.

    I know I will probably get banned, but this really had to be said. People like me (normal healthy people who don't have a problem playing a 12+ game at the age of 20+) are the absolute majority and we won't let deviants like you terrorize us with your totalitarian dogmas.
    Last edited by Commander; 2012-01-04 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    I know I will probably get banned, but this really had to be said. People like me (normal healthy people who don't have a problem playing a 12+ game at the age of 20+) are the absolute majority and we won't let deviants like you terrorize us with your totalitarian dogmas.
    After this I have to say one thing, you are the one who is not healthy.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    They would? Which games would these be?
    OH i'll bite.. Diablo and WOW and The Warcraft series, and DnD to start.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    After this I have to say one thing, you are the one who is not healthy.
    So you do have troubles playing a 12+ game?

    Wow, I'm impressed. I honestly hope you're just trolling.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    They would? Which games would these be?
    Quake series? Wolfenstein series (RtCW and ET)? Mortal Kombat? Street fighter?

    I mean, that's just for me but I'm pretty sure other people have some other experiences with other games

  15. #75
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Being disappointed in a beta is not the same as being disappointed by a trial/demo or a full product.

    Minecraft was beta for... how long? I couldn't play that game for more than an hour per sitting. Final product is out, and it's pretty nice to play w/o mods now. I still don't put much time into the game, but when I do it's less boring than it was during the beta.

    Also if you ever heard of ESF, that game is the king of beta and delays in my book. They current beta version looks in no way shape or form as good as the final product they're cleaning up.

    Also what are people talking about "games have no replay value." The internet ruined replay value for pretty much every game in existence that doesn't have multiplayer or mod(DLC) capabilities. The only hope a game has for any real replay value is to not look up a guide, or it keeps pumping out DLC. Now they have achievements to encourage you to replay the game, but the incentive is lost. "Oh I missed an achieve... I guess that means I didn't beat the game!" A journey turns into a chore. Then again, games back in the day didn't have the joys of a quicksave/load feature. That's why Demon/Dark Souls is such a fantastic game.

    Basically replay value in a game was always fabricated, it just takes more willpower these days. The generation of gamers these days are very spoiled.



    On a more serious note: Can I have your beta key since you're done, OP?
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander
    Thanks for quoting what I just read earlier today, I really appreciate that.

    Again, I (and the vast majority of players judging by the number of these threads) DO NOT WANT Normal to be super easy. As I said, a tutorial that takes up to 10-12 hours to complete is terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE game design, I shouldn't have to explain why. Is it that hard to comprehend? A game is only fun as long as there's at least SOME challenge. Especially if that game is of the hack'n'slash genre.
    I really doubt this "tutorial" takes up to 10-12 hours if you really have played the Diablo series, you already know all the basics, the only thing you need to learn that is different from Diablo 2 is how the class works, and which spells that works the best for what you are going to do.
    Fun and Challenge depends on the person himself.. Just because you dont think its fun when a game isnt challenging, doesnt mean everyone else thinks like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander
    Also, I am not a "new player" and I don't understand why exactly the game has to be ruined just so a couple newbies won't be called names (which they will anyway as WoW has proven lots of times no matter how often Blizzard nerfs that game).
    People in WoW are called names because of the fact that 1.) accounts are being sold through various sites on the Internet. 2.) People cant bother taking the time reading up on the class they intend to play. 3.) People are disrespectful towards other players, even for stupid things that easily can happen at any time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander
    I'm tired of that PC crap when normal people have to suffer because a tiny minority of players are horrible. I'm tired of not being able to call a retard what he really is. This policy has already turned your country into one huge mess where the rights of the natives are horribly abused just so people like you can feel good about themselves. I appreciate your right to be proud of being able to call Stockholm the rape capital of Europe but please don't go online and act like your infantile leftist way of thinking is normal or acceptable.
    People dont choose to be retarded, it just happens, its still no reason to run around and make fun out of them or assault them because of it.
    Whats with the personal assaults? What did i do that offended you so much that you had to bring up which country i come from?
    Where im from, doesnt even matter in this topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Commander
    I know I will probably get banned, but this really had to be said. People like me (normal healthy people who don't have a problem playing a 12+ game at the age of 20+) are the absolute majority and we won't let deviants like you terrorize us with your totalitarian dogmas.
    If you now are a normal, healthy person, how come you decide to start with personal assaults without any reason at all?

    Im 22 years old, i have pretty much only been playing games from Blizzard, starting with Diablo 1, also tried Hellfire expansion that Sierra released.
    After that i started out on Diablo 2, then continued through Lord of Destruction until WoW came out, that i now have played since then, with some 1-3month breaks every now and then due to it getting boring from time to time.
    And during the breaks, i was trying all possible games.
    Last year i had a total of 3 breaks from WoW, each break from WoW ended up starting with another game.
    First break: Went back to Diablo 2, zerged through it pretty fast with 3 different classes (Paladin, Assassin and Necromancer)
    Second break: Went to DDO with two colleagues and played that for quite some time.
    Third break: Went to Aion with the same two colleagues and played that for quite some time.
    And for now im playing WoW again until Diablo 3 gets out.
    Last edited by Lightstar; 2012-01-04 at 11:43 AM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Mancerot View Post
    I really doubt this "tutorial" takes up to 10-12 hours if you really have played the Diablo series, you already know all the basics, the only thing you need to learn that is different from Diablo 2 is how the class works, and which spells that works the best for what you are going to do.
    Fun and Challenge depends on the person himself.. Just because you dont think its fun when a game isnt challenging, doesnt mean everyone else thinks like that.
    This still doesn't make much sense. First of all, Blizzard themselves said the Normal difficulty is supposed to be very easy, therefore it's not going to be much more than a tutorial. Bad, bad game design right there. The Normal mode in D1 and D2 weren't artificially crippled, they were just that - normal. Not easy and not hard, just normal, providing great gameplay value.

    And second, Diablo as a game definitely should be at least somewhat challenging. This isn't an adventure game, this is supposed to be a hack and slash masterpiece. Saying you're okay with Normal mode being designed to suit the most casual of players is like saying an oldschool 2D platformer game like Megaman 9 or Super Meat Boy should be easy. Thing is, most people won't play through 10 hours of gameplay if the game isn't going to cooperate and instead just lets you oneshot everything in sight. It's like doing dailies in WoW, only even more boring.
    Last edited by Commander; 2012-01-04 at 11:53 AM.

  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    yeeaaah spamming orb of frost was so hard thing in D2.
    There is not so many hack&slash games with RPG elements in them, so, i believe it is awesome that blizz made one for PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    yeeaaah spamming orb of frost was so hard thing in D2.
    You don't get FO until level 30 and by that time you are normally starting in Nightmare, unless you just want to relax and run Baal some more.

    Also, you can't really "spam" it until you get a decent manapool, which is when you're like level 50+.
    Last edited by Commander; 2012-01-04 at 12:06 PM.

  20. #80
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    You don't get FO until level 30 and by that time you are normally starting in Nightmare, unless you just want to relax and run Baal some more.

    Also, you can't really "spam" it until you get a decent manapool, which is when you're like level 50+.
    replace "orb of frost" on "frost nova" or "frost bolt"(?) before 30.
    playing without "/players 8" is totally boring for me =\
    nightmare is the only "normal" mode for most of players. That was in D2, and it is in D3, but in D3 - normal mode is more interesting than in D2
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

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