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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaronicity View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I think it actually might be more akin to Enhance Shamans and their Maelstrom weapon procs. That said, I've come across enough situations where I have no Maul proc, Shock is still on cd with 2 stacks of Induction and nothing to do hence my use of Discharge regardless of stacks. Of course, I could always Saber Strike but that hits like a wet noodle in comparison. It's also possible that the stacks are sort of an "icing-on-the-cake" deal wherein anything you have to buff Discharge is viewed as good and should be used as such. I understand the problem with delaying Shock - in which case, using Discharge anywhere from 12-15 seconds is acceptable - but I just haven't found it to be that problematic.

    This is the fun of a new game coming out and people only having some semblance of what to do .
    Yeah I like these kinds of discussions

    In long PvE fights I think you should use that to Saber Strike anyway, if you're not about to Force cap of course. Even on class quest elites, I'm finding myself Force starved in the end after I've used my Blackout. It's entirely possible Discharging might be worth doing on 2, 3 or 4 stacks but that's what number crunching is for! Before we know the formulas for abilities and stat weights it's impossible to put something like that together though.

  2. #22
    I think you might be overlooking the benefits of accuracy. I know it reduces resistance and defense for your targets, so it may be more valuable than you're giving it credit for.

    You really can't wait for 5 stacks to discharge, it's more of an added bonus type thing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porte View Post
    You really can't wait for 5 stacks to discharge, it's more of an added bonus type thing.
    Of course you can, if the Force is more valuable elsewhere.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Khanjin View Post
    Of course you can, if the Force is more valuable elsewhere.
    It's gonna be a dps loss if you hold onto discharge, every ability I've ever seen that's similar has worked that way.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porte View Post
    It's gonna be a dps loss if you hold onto discharge, every ability I've ever seen that's similar has worked that way.
    How is that an argument? You have to understand that if 2 Voltaic Strikes and a Shock as well as Maul is more Damage per Force, than any state of Discharge there is more value in using Saber Strike to pool Force than use Discharge on cooldown. It's all down to numbers and that's actually my experience of it working that way. Even if Bioware intend for it to work like you say, it might not. You've no doubt seen the problems enhancement shamans have had with their Lightning Bolt priority.

  6. #26
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    I may be wrong but from what I have seen (lvl41) its a dps increase to use diacharge if shock is on cooldown, or if you cant assassinate. I also have been saber xharge dancing to keep lightning charges dot up, I could be doing it wrong but Its working

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsmith06 View Post
    I may be wrong but from what I have seen (lvl41) its a dps increase to use diacharge if shock is on cooldown, or if you cant assassinate. I also have been saber xharge dancing to keep lightning charges dot up, I could be doing it wrong but Its working
    I very much doubt the 100 Force it takes to change back and forth is worth it. Of course Discharging on cooldown is entirely possibly a dps increase.

  8. #28
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    Again this Is true but I haven't ran enough flashpoints just my daily each day, and there's enough talents that increase discharge damage and its Crit damae to use it if nothing else, mail proc shock on cd etc

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsmith06 View Post
    I may be wrong but from what I have seen (lvl41) its a dps increase to use diacharge if shock is on cooldown, or if you cant assassinate. I also have been saber xharge dancing to keep lightning charges dot up, I could be doing it wrong but Its working
    You will be using Surging Charge as Deception, not Lightning Charge and swapping between the two is pointless. You "should" have Surging Charge already at level 41. As for seeing an increase, it's hardly conclusive as we have no means to gauge it right now other than feeling it out. In a flashpoint you have no idea if it's your own contribution or someone else's, unless you are just duo'ing it with companions. But even then...

    As for the discharge on cooldown thing, Discharge crits also proc your Exploitive Strikes. Keeping that up as much as possible would also be a DPS gain, when considering VS's (and Maul's) damage contribution.
    Last edited by Tradewind; 2012-01-03 at 06:12 PM.

  10. #30
    While I don't have a ton of experience with my Deception Assassin yet (level 31, but rising fairly fast. Just got the game a few days ago), I have seemed to have found a "sweet spot" kind of rotation I've been doing. I never open with discharge, only because there is a chance that it will be buffed by my slashes.

    Typically, I will open 2x Thrash (will eventually be replaced by Voltaic), Discharge, Shock. Use Maul procs when they come up, and saber strike if you find yourself force starved. Other than that, I just rotate it as such, keeping discharge and shock on CD as often as possible. I have noticed mobs tend to die significantly faster if I am persistent about doing it in this fashion. Of course, until I have a damage meter, this is pure speculation. While what I am doing may not be the worst, there could easily be a better way of going about it. I hope to attempt to keep my ideas to this thread for future reference, and while my experience with SW:TOR is limited thus far, my MMO experience as a whole is not. Hopefully we can get some good conversation going on in this thread.

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral Jaronicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porte View Post
    I think you might be overlooking the benefits of accuracy. I know it reduces resistance and defense for your targets, so it may be more valuable than you're giving it credit for.

    You really can't wait for 5 stacks to discharge, it's more of an added bonus type thing.
    I'll have to look into it more, but I have looked into ever so slightly. So many of our attacks don't miss that until later endgame I don't see it as being ultra important. I have somewhat pushed it aside as more of a stat that tanks are after mainly due to them needing to hit their targets to keep threat. I also view it as a main PVP stat of import. You need at least +10% to bring your accuracy up to 100% to counter defense stats of the enemy player. Anything over 100% is good to have as it reduces further the defense stats like counter, parry, and defense. So many of our talents are based around critical strikes that I am going push that as our main stat (and Surge and Power after that with Endurance). I can definitely see crit getting up there quickly in which case it's entirely possible that Accuracy will come into play. This remains to be seen, though.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-06 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    As for the discharge on cooldown thing, Discharge crits also proc your Exploitive Strikes. Keeping that up as much as possible would also be a DPS gain, when considering VS's (and Maul's) damage contribution.
    This is a good point as well. And, again, I have been in enough situations where, if I don't Discharge (sounds disgusting lol), I'm not really doing anything. I could, in theory, Saber Strike, but I think we probably want ES up as much as possible. Until we can get some concrete numbers, however, I'm going to treat the Static Charges as bonuses to the Discharge.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-06 at 12:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsmith06 View Post
    I may be wrong but from what I have seen (lvl41) its a dps increase to use diacharge if shock is on cooldown, or if you cant assassinate. I also have been saber xharge dancing to keep lightning charges dot up, I could be doing it wrong but Its working
    I highly doubt that's worth the Force to do that. And you're missing out on GCDs that could be used to a) Surging Discharge and b) proc Static Charges. I should add this to the first page, but Assassinate hits the top of your priority list (unless you are out of Force) once the target is <30%. In fact, I will add that right now, then get back to leveling. Who knew leveling two characters at the same time would be so exhausting!?

  12. #32
    Why does everyone take Recirculation? The only way you're getting 4-5 Static Charge in 12 seconds is if you spam Saber Strike the whole time.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  13. #33
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    You forgot to mention that Sorc healers are nearly unkillable and their shields are even more overpowered

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Why does everyone take Recirculation? The only way you're getting 4-5 Static Charge in 12 seconds is if you spam Saber Strike the whole time.
    I think you may be confused. Recirculation only reduces the Discharge CD by 1.5/3 seconds. Static Charges, which is much higher in the tree, is what grants the namesake buff (that also resets its duration with each additional charge, so spamming SS is not at all necessary.) It's free damage, and I cannot see where the points would be better spent since they must be invested in the Deception tree to reach Voltaic Slash.

  15. #35
    No, I'm wondering where people are finding the force to cast Discharge on cooldown, let alone three seconds sooner, when they have so many other abilities with better DpF that require their attention. As near as I can figure, having played the spec for 50 levels, the priority goes something like:

    Assassinate > Shock @ 2 stacks VS (Chain Shock build) > Maul w/ proc > Discharge @ 4-5 stacks SC > Shock @ 2 stacks VS (Charge Mastery build) > Voltaic Slash @ 0-1 stacks > Discharge @ 3 stacks or less,

    Which means you pretty much never waste force on a sub-4 Discharge, unless you're getting attacked and can't use your Maul procs, or to finish off a mob that's really low health when you have exactly 20 Force. I'm not convinced something that situational is worth two skill points, I'd rather have a more reliable interrupt and CC break, which is in the same tier. Now, don't get me wrong, it is nice for leveling but once you get Induction and Voltaic Slash you might use Discharge every 30-40 seconds. BioWare should fix this by making Surging Charge more reliable than Seal of Casino, then I'd actually want Recirc in a Deception build.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  16. #36
    High Overlord Collie's Avatar
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    Oh. Now I see what you're saying.

    I suppose it'll depend on the encounters to come. I'm not much of a PvPer so I can only see the benefit of a -2s interrupt CD for right now, which doesn't seem terribly useful until we get something like 25H Nefarian/Cho'gall where tons of interrupts are a requirement. That said, you do have a good point. Something to chew on over the weekend...

  17. #37
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    This might be interesting: http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/47/statscalingdr.png

    Also, something I found on SithWarrior about Rotation:
    VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> (if <4 charges, Maul -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> begin if again, else VS until 5 charges) -> Recklessness -> Blackout -> Discharge -> Shock -> Maul -> VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Maul -> DCD -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Maul -> Shock -> Discharge -> VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Maul -> Discharge -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Shock -> VS -> VS -> Maul -> Shock -> (return to start)

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Jaronicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    I'm actually following that whole thread where that pic came from . Apparently, Surge Rating scales ridiculously - at least, that's what I'm getting from the graphs - and can cap out at 100% fairly quickly. The problem I'm noticing from my scouring of the internet is that, right now, everyone is saying something different in terms of, well, pretty much everything. Some are saying bring your accuracy to 100% (329 rating at 50) before stacking crit. Chain Shock spec is supposedly slightly higher than the other spec and thus has been deemed the current "cookie cutter." Whether or not using Discharge on CD makes sense. I've seen a lot of speculation that waiting for 5 Static Charges will be a DPS loss. Speculation, yes, but that has been my inkling as well. Much remains to be seen.

    An interesting point made by someone who plays (played?) a Shadow Priest with their orbs mechanic and whether it was best to wait for full stacks on those:
    A lot of theory crafting it was worked out that it's not worth waiting for the orbs to be on full, it's much higher Dps to drop MB on CD, every CD, than it is to wait and get full stacks.

    This is because not only are you trading actual damage for potential damage, but every second you delay casting your current discharge, you're delaying EVERY further discharge.
    Obviously this is just an analogy but I can see the same thing being true re: Discharge. Fortunately, one gentleman is working on a simulator over at Sithwarrior.com so hopefully that can guide us in the right direction. One last thing to consider is that Shock is energy damage and, thus, can be mitigated by armour whereas Discharge is internal damage.

    Just more food for thought!

  19. #39
    So i've been playing my assassin as deception and i keep seeing things come up that i should use voltaic slash or thrash. Why is there an OR? Doesnt VS cover both rolls?

  20. #40
    This guide still updated ?
    Last edited by Quentin; 2012-05-15 at 04:01 PM.

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