Questions about holy pallys :x

[jemd13]

Hello everyone .

So hm, first of all, I got my holy pally to 85 not too long ago (maybe a week? maybe less :x). I already have some epics and I have healed 2 of the new 5 mans, I think I'm doing good for the first time healing xD (my main is a warlock :P). But I do have 3 questions:

1) I have been following the holy pally PVE guild from Noxxic, and according to it, I can enchant my weap with either power torrent or heartsong...My question is: Which one is better?. I see lots of healers with power torrent, but thing is, as a healer I dont really see the point in having an spellpower proc like that :x, it's not gonna trigger whenever I want, so it might proc when everybody is between 90% and 100% health, making it kinda useless. I was thinking about getting heartsong for the spirit proc, to help me get some more mp5 during the fights, it seems alot more useful to me than a spell power proc :x (Besides the fact that its ALOT cheaper xD). But i dont know, you guys tell me which one you think its the best :x.

2)The other question is, atm my trinkets arenot really that good for a pally healer, I've got the mastery healing trinket from old city (I know mastery isnt a good stat, but its the best healing trinket i got xD and i reforged mastery to spirit), and the haste trinket from Grim Batol, that gives me spell power everytime a HoT ticks. Now, I know i need new trinkets, specially cause pallys dont have HoTs besides Holy Radiance, but Im wondering, I was planning on getting the spirit trinket with valor points, that gives like 456 spirit I think. And then the intellect trinket from the last boss in WoE. Would this be a good choice? Is it worth using my valors on the spirit trinket?. I dont seem to be running out of mana except on some fights, but having some more spirit never hurts i guess, and like I said, there are times when I do run oom cause the group is taking lots of damage and stuff like that.

3)Last question: Like I said, I pretty much just started healing, and I've been using Noxxic to help me with my healing spells and stuff like that, but Ive seen some people around the forums saying holy pallys shoudnt be using FoL on 5mans and stuff like that...As for me, I do try to use Divine Light when people are taking heavy damage, but it has a slow cast time, and there are times when I dont want people to die, (Or I just dont wanna risk it, anyways) and i do 1 or 2 FoLs on people that are really low on health. Is this wrong? Should I stop doing it?o_o\

Thanks a lot for your time (Sorry if my english isnt the best, its not my native language hehe).

[Deleted]

1) While gearing? No doubt heartsong.
2) Darkmoon card: Tsunami and the last trinket from WoE should suit you just fine.
3) After a while you'll get a feel for which heals are suitable. Regardless, anyone who says to unbind FoL is a mong because it can save lives if your target is sub 10% or similar. If I know I can spare a global I will holy shock just to fish for a hasted DL just in case. To answer your question it's not wrong, you kept the player alive as best as you could.

[jemd13]

1) While gearing? No doubt heartsong.
2) Darkmoon card: Tsunami and the last trinket from WoE should suit you just fine.
3) After a while you'll get a feel for which heals are suitable. Regardless, anyone who says to unbind FoL is a mong because it can save lives if your target is sub 10% or similar. If I know I can spare a global I will holy shock just to fish for a hasted DL just in case. To answer your question it's not wrong, you kept the player alive as best as you could.

If I cant get my hands on the Darkmoon Card....Would it work to get the VP trinket?XD

[quietstrm07]

I'd still recommend the trinket from WoE over the VP trinket due to a personal preference for having int on trinkets (I'm not a big fan of throughput INT procs or on use effects). The mastery proc is meh, but it is a good chunk of INT

[Zardi]

Until you're at really high gear levels, you should always grab Heartsong. Despite being a proc, there's very little room for it to be wasted; it gives regen which is always useful, and its much cheaper than Power Torrent (which allows you to stick it on any weapon, even the ones you would be replacing soon). Use Power Torrent when you feel that regen becomes fairly redundant - after all, it'd mean the Heartsong proc would be less useful, and in relative terms, the random bonus throughput would end up being better.

As for trinkets, the one from Well of Eternity is definitely one of the best choices. For the second slot, you could grab a Moonwell Chalice (if you did Molten Front, otherwise forget it!), or a Core of Ripeness from the legacy JP vendor. Yes, it's only level 359, but the passive Int is very decent, and can be used on cooldown for bonus regen. Definitely better than many other, higher ilvl alternatives.

Contrary to popular belief, Mastery isn't a bad stat. Or well, at least not as bad as it used to be. With the new Holy Radiance it's one of the most powerful stats for AoE situations; you won't get much use out of it in 5-mans but its definitely worth considering for raids (on fights such as Madness, Yorsahj or Ultraxion). This makes the Chalice more valuable than it used to be, and makes the proc from Foul Gift more useful (albeit random).

Lastly about FoL... you're right in that ideally you shouldn't be using it a lot. It's very expensive, and in terms of throughput it isn't even that much better than DL (less so if get Infusion procs!). In fact, you won't be chaining FoLs for throughput - you'll just cast 1 or 2 for the initial burst then stick to DL when its stable. Now, I wouldn't go as far as unbinding it - like all heals it has its place. Normally you will be able to "save someone" with an instant heal from HS or WoG, but if those tools aren't available FoL is the next one on the list. You'll end up using FoL sparsely, perhaps never - but odds are that you'd regret unbinding it at some point.

[jemd13]

Ok but i still dont understand why its a bad idea to get the VP spirit trinket D: ... the idea is to get 2 int trinkets? is the VP trinket a bad one?o_o...or is spirit on trinkets considered a waste as a holy pally?:x...Other than that thanks alot for the replies

[Firecrest]

Ok but i still dont understand why its a bad idea to get the VP spirit trinket D: ... the idea is to get 2 int trinkets? is the VP trinket a bad one?o_o...or is spirit on trinkets considered a waste as a holy pally?:x...Other than that thanks alot for the replies

Point for point, Int is much much better than Spirit.

[Deleted]

Guys above summed it up pretty well. For weapon enchant i preffer Power Torrent as u can use ur Divine Plea during the proc for extra mana regen or even Arcane torrent if ur a belf, however Heartsong is much cheaper, it has short icd and high proc rate. When choosing a trinket try to get the one that has the most int on it, int is just amazing and much better than any other secondary stat. The exepction to that are trinkets with good procs, or uses. DMC: tsunami is a perfect starting trinket, i've been using that long into FL hardmodes and now it should be cheap. If u happen to be an alchemist get the alchemist stone, it's quiet good as well. Generally trinkest with static int and spirit or haste on procs are the best options for holy palies.
Fol is a masive mana sink and u should try to avoid using it, but if u're in the situation where u have to use it, do it wisely. To avoid those kind of situations u should learn to use the 'hand' spells (protection, sacrifice, salvation and freedom) those can be very effective when used properly. Also don't hold back on LoH, it's a life saver and 10% mana that goes with it when glyphed is nice as well.

[Deleted]

Guys above all summed it up pretty well.

All I will add is that you seem to have a pretty good grasp of what to aim for and a good sense of reasoning things out for yourself. So remember to trust your instincts and not blindly follow everything you read on forums (unless it's backed by reasoning that makes sense to you).

[Deleted]

1) Answered already

2) Spirit is always good if you feel your mana isn't sufficient to last an entire fight. The more you gear up, the more you get spirit naturally. So in the beginning spirit trinkets are certainly valid.

3) Basicly Holy shock whenever its off CD. Use Holy light between two shocks. If there is heavy damage use Divine Light instead. If you have to save somebody use FL. Untill you start raiding I would suggest to minimalize the use of Holy radiance, since it will burn your mana. Furthermore in 5 mans Holy radiance isn't that effective, since you heal three people with a single heal (target, Beacon target and yourself through talent).
One thing to keep in mind is the usage of CD. This is where a good paladin can distinguish himself /herself from the rest. We have a TON of utilities: hand of sacrifice, divine shield, hand of freedom, aura mastery, ... . Use them regulary.

[Exerionx]

Yeah a lot of stuff has been said which is most true.

I usually cast holy light in the meantime to fish for Fusion of Light (?) procs.

[Alexiaa]

Best trinkets avail to you without raiding for mana are Tsunami and Core combo - I still use Tsunami (damn you Spine trinket drop!) and I just recently replaced my core after having both those trinkets serve me faithfully since T11. If you cant/wont spend money on Tsunami (shame) the WoE is alright for the intell but the proc is shit.

If I were you, save your VP for the cloak (incredible) and some other goodies and dont waste it on the subpar trinket.

[Kathoris]

Mastery is only bad if you are doing the haste build, personally I tried the crit mastery build and find it much smoother and cleaner feeling to healing. but basically go after int like your on your lock though.

[Alexiaa]

Well, I'm not going to get into a haste vs. mastery vs. crit argument - but

As for me, I do try to use Divine Light when people are taking heavy damage, but it has a slow cast time, and there are times when I dont want people to die

that to me says you want to add some haste to your stats, the mastery proc wont be adding a great deal of throughput to your healing - the only upside to it that I can see is atleast it wont go to waste as overhealing.

also -

Mastery is only bad if you are doing the haste build, personally I tried the crit mastery build and find it much smoother and cleaner feeling to healing. but basically go after int like your on your lock though.

that is also saying that mastery is only good if you do not follow the most optimal way to gear for your class - lawl

[Lovin]

With a paladin you have to get use to it. They made many changes since WotLK. You have many buttons to use to be great at healing with a paladin, it's just a matter of using it at the right time. You work on CDs, reason why you shouldn't be running of mana. A holy paladin are usually single target healers and I am in the opinion that it should stay that way, but we can make decent AoE healers when needed. To answer your questions:

1. Power Torrent - even if you are gearing. These days gearing goes very fast specially now with the looking for raid. Power Torrent might proc when everyone is topped off but you might not be full on mana, and when it procs is when you use all your mana CDs and if you do the math it's estimate same amount of mana back, you just have to use mana CDs when it procs. There are addons for that. Either way your main priority is ALWAYS intellect above any other stat for a greater output in healing. Reason why you want as much intellect and haste as you possibly can get.

2. Trinkets will be a slight problem until you get into LFR. Unless you are raiding Firelands. If you are reverend which I don't believe you are, you can get the Spirit trinket from the Avengers of Hyjal and reforge the Spirit to Haste. It's not the best but its a decent boost to your soft haste cap and spirit never hurts. Even though you should be using 2 intellect trinkets. Then you can attempt to get Jaws of Defeat from Majordomo in Firelands. Other than there is no other trinket that's "BiS" until LFR or actual Dragon Soul raiding. A GREAT trinket but it takes a while to get is archeology: Tyrande's Favorite Doll, supposely it's still BiS still this day. I use it still on my paladin. When you start on LFR you want the trinket of The Spine of Deathwing, that is BiS for 4.3 whether 384 or 397, it's called: Heart of Unliving.

3. There is no specific rotation to what you should be doing as a holy paladin. If you are just doing 5 man heal as if you were healing a raid. I recommend what I do, and I do alot of single target being I am mostly on tank but I have a rotation where I can AoE a little without using Holy Radiance which burns your mana too quickly and it's not that effective. Your judgment is not the same as before and now you can judge every minute or so, but judge! Then you want to use Holy Shock to heal here and there; to top people off to gain Holy Power, once you have three charges of Holy Power you can either AoE or Word of Glory. Word of Glory is single target, usually I use this on tank or a dps that is really low because it has a nice crit. If your raid is low and you have 3 charges; don't do it with less because it's not as effective, use Light of Dawn, and keep your rotation. Also, you have CDs for you and your tank, Hand of Sacrafice and then right after Divine Protection yourself, helps with the damage on the tank. Also, make sure you use the right glyphs. NEVER use FoL unless you have the mana for it. If you are going to use a big heal use Divine Light and remember if your tank is taking massive amount of damage do HoSacr and DP and then Divine Light x2 with Holy Shock x1 on tank because every time you Divine Light on the Beacon target you get a charge of Holy Power and that way you can either Light of Dawn or Word of Glory.

Hope this helped

[Kathoris]

Well, I'm not going to get into a haste vs. mastery vs. crit argument - but

that to me says you want to add some haste to your stats, the mastery proc wont be adding a great deal of throughput to your healing - the only upside to it that I can see is atleast it wont go to waste as overhealing.

also -


that is also saying that mastery is only good if you do not follow the most optimal way to gear for your class - lawl

You don't want to get into haste vs crit/mastery yet you say crit mastery is worse.......

Anyhow for tank healing which i do for the raid crit mastery has made it much easier and more predictable incoming damage. If your not tank healing then yes go haste but as well crit mastery only works once your gear is decent

[Alexiaa]

The thing is, he isnt in a raid situation, hes in a 5 man setting. When you are healing multiple targets as a paladin-you need all the haste you can get. The only time mastery is a "viable" build is when THE ONLY thing you are doing is healing the tanks.

Even in a raid situation, the second you heal other targets, other than tanks - the mastery build goes out the window.

[jemd13]

Thanks for all the replies atm im still gearing myself, but im almost full 378 epics (Of course, free epics all the way >_>). Ive been doing good healing the new 5mans, although i havent tried to heal a raid, not even BH o_o. i guess ill try soon...

Ive got one more question, about my CDs: Like i said, ive been using noxxic's guide for pve holy pallys. In the CD section, it says its more effective to use all the CDs at once, including trinkets, hand of sac, divine favor, aura mastery, guardian of the ancient kings...

Im not sure if they refered to a raid setting, but atm i only use CDs when its a heavy aoe fight like azhara in WoE, and i dont even have to use them all, i think its a bit overkill to do that o_o...but, either way, if i do go into a raid, is it true that its more effective to use all my CDs at once instead of 1 by 1?o_o

I usually only use my Core or Ripeness, divine favor and aura mastery on most of the fights, and the rest only if there is really heavy damage going on... am i doing something wrong?XD or does the guide refer to a raid enviroment?o.o

Thanks!

[deviancee]

Thanks for all the replies atm im still gearing myself, but im almost full 378 epics (Of course, free epics all the way >_>). Ive been doing good healing the new 5mans, although i havent tried to heal a raid, not even BH o_o. i guess ill try soon...

Ive got one more question, about my CDs: Like i said, ive been using noxxic's guide for pve holy pallys. In the CD section, it says its more effective to use all the CDs at once, including trinkets, hand of sac, divine favor, aura mastery, guardian of the ancient kings...

Im not sure if they refered to a raid setting, but atm i only use CDs when its a heavy aoe fight like azhara in WoE, and i dont even have to use them all, i think its a bit overkill to do that o_o...but, either way, if i do go into a raid, is it true that its more effective to use all my CDs at once instead of 1 by 1?o_o

I usually only use my Core or Ripeness, divine favor and aura mastery on most of the fights, and the rest only if there is really heavy damage going on... am i doing something wrong?XD or does the guide refer to a raid enviroment?o.o

Thanks!

That guide is rubbish then, don't follow it.
In reaaaally heavy aoe situations that are very short you could possibly combine for example 2 cooldowns, but generally you shouldnt need/want to do it.
Im talking about raids also.