Future Raiding - My Personal Vision.

[Deleted]

This would never work because of that exact statement. Blizzard has chosen which part of the playerbase they want to support the most and it isnt those that do the heroic raids. They see the LFR group as the bigger money makers and will bend over backwards to make sure they are happy at the expense of everything else. Its a good business decision but sucks for those getting shafted.

Casuals CAN experience all the content, they just lag behind 1 tier. At the end of the expansion the last raid will be nerfed for the casuals. Bam, progression, and everyone gets to experience all the content.

[Shadzta]

I like it, but honestly you have to realize blizzard will never implement this. They want the mass populace to feel like they are the forefront of raiding, even if they are not. I wish it weren't so.

Also, it really doesn't make much sense when each expansion has 3 raids. I mean, right now is the only time we even have 3 raids out, so LFR would see 1 dungeon : /. Not really sure how you could make that work unless LFR sat on T11 entire expac, normal sat on T11 for 2 patches, and so on. Then you have the problem at the end of the tier that the LFR has only see 1/3 the content. I don't think there is any real way to address this that won't either upset all the heroic people (the top 5%), or the mass populace, the other 95%.

We aren't at three raids we are at 5...tier 11 had 3 raids alone...is what im refering too..same with wrath really...

EG: you could use tier 11 as an example...have Throne of the four winds as "LFR"...Bastion of twilight as "Normals" and heroics with Blackwing Descent....obviously im not talking about LFR having 2 bosses and thats it...im just using them as an example...

Then when Firelands was released...BoT is LFR BWD is normals and Firelands is Heroics...see my drift?

---------- Post added 2011-12-31 at 07:17 AM ----------

They tried multi-tier progression like this in Cataclysm. It failed. Remember how T11 was nerfed in 4.2? Very few people did it after it was nerfed.

Personally i believe it was nerfed to yea let people go back and clear shit some did...i remember my realm had a bunch of alt run BoT pst etc etc...however remember Firelands still had farm valor any way you can...heres 3/5 tier and the Firelands dailies got you some cool upgrades pretty quick. Don't forget that half if not most of your normal BiS was able to be gotten from Valor points hehe. I'd like them introduce a system like the pvp weapons...you must have obtained 3k valor before obtaining tier shoulders or tier chest etc etc...that means okay so your 10man has been shit for the last 4 weeks and not dropped what you wanted...well its okay heres tier chest etc...something like that would be pretty good. As for what you mentioned about them trying it...i believe that Firelands patch just made it too easy to get the 365+ gear.

[Ibramgaunt]

I like the Idea, but as it was stated by someone else, Blizzard wants the content to be downed when relevant.

To be completely honest, I am fine with the difficulty right now, what I dislike and what actually almost made me quit the game is a huge and retarded nerf on current content just so people can experience it. I am not talking about some on the side nerfs here and there on very hard encounters, I am specifically talking about the 20% nerfs on EVERY fights in Firelands (but Rag at that point). Wow has been a game where guilds end up with different amount of heroic (or just regular if we go back to earlier tiers) kills, you are in a better guild? you kill them all, you are not as successful? well, you kill what your guild is able to and you're happy when you get a new one down. A huge nerf just got the epic feel of killing the boss away and bad people got stuck on Heroic Rag (then followed the biggest amount of QQ I have ever seen over a single encounter).

TL;DR: keeping stuff with this difficulty is fine by me, but nerfing them midway is retarded

[Shadzta]

mmm has anyone seen anything in swtor that has been good that they feel WoW might try implement in MoP...or something from swtor that they WANT WoW to adopt?

[Osmeric]

mmm has anyone seen anything in swtor that has been good that they feel WoW might try implement in MoP...or something from swtor that they WANT WoW to adopt?

Multi-mob looting and one-click vendor trash sales, but SWTOR isn't alone in having those.

With our luck the thing they'll imitate in MoP will be all the cut scenes. :/

[Beeflord]

Imo the OP is on to something. Finishing the most current raid within 1 week of hitting max level is killing motivation too quickly and leaves no room for progression which has always been one of the core ideas of MMOs. Seeing content was my main motivation for all of vanilla and TBC. Hardmodes never made me too excited (although I like playing in highly skilled teams). Now the whole raiding content is thrown at me in 2 hours so I cant even enjoy it properly and I dont even have to understand the fight. While I dig the whole raidfinder idea this was a bit over the top. Make people progress in raids a bit over a somewhat longer period of time so they actually have a chance to understand and enjoy the content. And dont make older raiding tiers irrelevant by giving out better gear through 5-mans or dailies. Seriously the whole progression thing needs to be rethought I'm not sure what they were thinking with 4.3 it makes little sense in the long run financially (maybe it was only to test raidfinder feature for MoP...) but I believe its stupid to try and tell Bliz in detail how they should solve the problem its enough to point out the problem itself as there are countless ways to improve the game.

[Osmeric]

Imo the OP is on to something. Finishing the most current raid within 1 week of hitting max level is killing motivation too quickly and leaves no room for progression which has always been one of the core ideas of MMOs.

Nah, this is just more hardcore angst, searching desperately for some reason why catering to the great mass of customers is a bad idea.

[tacoloco]

YThere are guilds to fit every type of schedule including those with random ones

Absolutely, positively, incorrect. Since 2005, I've played on U.S. east coast servers and I STILL haven't found a guild that raids regularly (as in more than once a week) that fits the kind of schedule I really want. Most guilds want to start raids at 8 to 8:30pm and run until 11 or 12.

I'm sure there's one guild somewhere that raids from 7pm sharp until 10pm, but I haven't found it and it's not reasonable to expect people to spend a lot of money to transfer to find one.

Oh and most guilds won't clear DS normal in two hours.

[Topornic]

They tried multi-tier progression like this in Cataclysm. It failed. Remember how T11 was nerfed in 4.2? Very few people did it after it was nerfed.

Actually if they put that T11 and now T12 raid in LFR queue option (without huge nerfs/difficulty gaps like DS LFR/normal/hc) people might do them because of the fact they don't need to assemble a group themselves.

[tacoloco]

LFR isn't for casuals, they're in DS normal and probably farming 8/8 already while working on heroic modes. bads will never go 8/8 normal and will be geared up by LFR

LFR is for casuals. As in people who may not have the ability or desire to set aside fixed amounts of time on a regular schedule to participate in a raid guild.

---------- Post added 2012-01-01 at 06:51 PM ----------

Nah, this is just more hardcore angst, searching desperately for some reason why catering to the great mass of customers is a bad idea.

I'm not anywhere near a hardcore raider anymore and I agree with the sentiment that seeing 8/8 in two weeks on easy mode does provide a disincentive to run normal content. I know I'm a lot less motivated now than I was before. I also know that it's my own damned fault for running LFR. But Blizzard kind of forced the issue by putting 384 gear in LFR, which mean I wanted to run it to get better than my FL normal gear. *shrug*.

LFR is fine, IMO. But it would have been better if Blizzard staggered release of the bosses over some period of time. Or perhaps opened LFR later so that more people started normal content first.

[Zeta333]

Absolutely, positively, incorrect. Since 2005, I've played on U.S. east coast servers and I STILL haven't found a guild that raids regularly (as in more than once a week) that fits the kind of schedule I really want. Most guilds want to start raids at 8 to 8:30pm and run until 11 or 12.

I'm sure there's one guild somewhere that raids from 7pm sharp until 10pm, but I haven't found it and it's not reasonable to expect people to spend a lot of money to transfer to find one.

Oh and most guilds won't clear DS normal in two hours.

Your not looking hard enough, becuase i know personally iv turned down more than 2 guilds who raid in the exact time that you mentioned. You need to hit the forums better, check out the websites that let you limit search for guild by the times they raid and such i remember using that quit a lot.

[Klahkeme]

It's certainly a better idea than "Screw the lesser folk, make only one mode at a high difficulty." I'm not really too opposed to the concept, though the hardcore crowd will still complain that the first and second tiers are full sets of content that don't have a worthwhile difficulty for them (they will argue that the time spend on those tiers should have been spent on two more heroic-level raids for them), and the LFR crowd will complain 1) that they have to wait months for the next tier to come out to be able to experience the content others are experiencing now and 2) that they don't get to experience the last two tiers (unless in the time between the last patch of the expansion and the release of the next expansion LFR is incremented to the last two tiers).

[Zenjie]

I really like this idea, this have been for some time in my thoughts as well.

What I would add, is the attunements.
You have to beat A-Raid-endboss (LFR) to be able to enter B-raid.
And new patch?
You still have to do A-Raid-Endboss, even B-raid is already up in LFR version.

2 patches later, and there new 5 man dungeons with better loots then A-raid LFR?
Yes, but you can only do them when you have beat A-B-C raid endbosses.
I would like it more that you have to fight for to see the end content.

All of this can be done in 'queststyle'.
More quests like, "Stormwind King commands you to slain Cho'gall, and when you deliver the Cho'gall head, you will get the new questchain following the entry to B-Raid". It will add the immersion A LOT into the game.
It is the journey that makes the game, not the endgame himself.

Bring more attunement-quests!!! Not that stupid ilvl attunement.

And remove Valor points all together -.-,
Valor points makes everything in the world so obsolete, why need profession why you can just farm heroic heroics heroics to jump to endgame content?
Why need boss-loots at all when you can just farm heroicsheroics all again?

And with your idea of A-B-C system,
Everyone can farm on their own pace, jumping from A-LFR to B-LFR so on. With collecting mats in Azeroth World for profession to gear themself better and enjoy the journey.

=)

[Peyj]

LFR is aimed at the lazy players. the bads. the people who don't care about the time they spend in the game.

I cannot believe that there are people who, like you, are still carrying on with this attitude.
Yes, I'm certain there are lazy players and bad players in LFR. Much like there are those players in raiding guilds. It's not like bad and lazy players ONLY play LFR and that's it.

LFR is for people like me, actually. People who, like me, have raided since pre-BC, and for the first time in those 7 years, I find myself unable to commit to a full-time raiding schedule. Why? Because I now have a MINIMUM four hour commute every single weekday for work (two hours each way). If I have to work back, or attend an appointment after hours or anything similar, that time very quickly inflates. Please explain to me how having that commitment right now automatically makes me lazy and bad.

LFR allows me to queue up on the weekend when I finally have a few hours spare. I don't get to complete it every week, because the weekend is currently the only real spare time I get, so everything has to be done then. But if there was no LFR, I wouldn't be able to see the current content in any shape or form. So yeah, I'm grateful they implemented it and I'm grateful I can at least see the instance before it's obsolete. Pretty sure none of the above makes me lazy or bad.

[Imnick]

You nailed the reason they are never going to do this in the OP, it doesn't let everyone see the content which was one of their big points for adding LFR
It's not a terrible idea but Blizzard are clearly never going to do it, so it's a bit of a silly thing to make a topic about

[Wass]

No offense but the TBC raiding model was better than the current one you made up. Gated progression through gear and attunements, I don't recall anyone playing during TBC to be unhappy with the available content.

But it's an innovative idea, you're on the right path.

[glycerethe]

LFR is truly failure, the number of people that can afk, the number of those afk people winning loot, the number of people not knowing the fight and die......

[Imnick]

I don't recall anyone playing during TBC to be unhappy with the available content.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen
You clearly weren't all that observant