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  1. #1

    Boss/elite hit points rediculously high on heroics

    Does anyone else feel like most of the bosses and elites have tediously high hit points?
    They seem to have such high hit points it gets to be boring half way through the fight.
    Most of the time it seems like the boss is just standing out in the open with 20 times your hit points and is just a tank/spank which takes 5 minutes to down, you don't have to actually work as a team other than the healer keeping your tank up. Hell they don't even CC you or do any kind of push backs, just straight hit you with their blaster or lightsaber
    Please tell me it gets better than this farther on in the game? (Lvl 25)

  2. #2
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    Last edited by Vereesa; 2011-12-29 at 12:04 PM.
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  3. #3
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    What I noticed was weird...

    So I'm doing a 2+ heroic with my level 32 marauder friend on my 31 assassin. The final boss has 43k health. He was a monster to kill, gave us a solid thrashing and 2 wipes.

    Later that day, I run my level 19 friend through a 2+ heroic. The final boss in that had almost 38k health. Now I'm thinking, "wait, this boss has just slightly less health than the one that beat the piss out of me earlier, and he's over 10 levels lower! Do they actually expect appropriate level players to kill this guy?"

  4. #4
    I wonder if the first posters read which subsection this was in.

  5. #5
    @First two replies

    Please check the forum you're in...

    @OP

    I agree. Too much health on too many mobs. Health isn't difficult, it's just strenuous.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

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  6. #6
    Yeah, some of the fights are going to be boring, but I can assure you that the whole game isn't just a tank and spank. One of the fights in Mandalorian Raiders features another team of 4 guys that each use abilities and require CC (After the patch). There is a handful of positional boss fights that require less "Oh you got hurt let me heal you" and more "Oh lawl you got hit so you're basically dead" type moments for healers.

    Some bosses require you to use the objects in the room for cover even if you're not a smuggler/imperial agent and I think their model is working out pretty decently as far as regular flash points go. I haven't raided yet, but from what I've seen they use some similar mechanics there as well.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Cairhiin's Avatar
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    Did the above posters not notice this is the SW:TOR forums?

    I agree somewhat with the OP; not regarding elites but definitely regarding bosses. They have over 100K HP but are easier than the packs of 3-4 elites to get to them. On the one hand I love that the group content is hard but on the other hand the bosses are a tad to tedious and could lose some HP and get some more tricks up their sleeves.

  8. #8
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clawtrocity View Post
    Yeah, some of the fights are going to be boring, but I can assure you that the whole game isn't just a tank and spank. One of the fights in Mandalorian Raiders features another team of 4 guys that each use abilities and require CC (After the patch). There is a handful of positional boss fights that require less "Oh you got hurt let me heal you" and more "Oh lawl you got hit so you're basically dead" type moments for healers.

    Some bosses require you to use the objects in the room for cover even if you're not a smuggler/imperial agent and I think their model is working out pretty decently as far as regular flash points go. I haven't raided yet, but from what I've seen they use some similar mechanics there as well.
    God I wiped on those asshole 5 times last night. I had to CC the twillek 4 times each attempt, the dps was so fucking slow. If you ever wanted evidence for an argument for having dmg meters their it is.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord
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    I would definitely agree. I don't know if it changes at the end, but midgame, bosses have way too much the way of HP, but not enough in the way of interesting mechanics (a ton of "don't stand in the fire", but not much else).

    I notice WAR had the same problem to a really large degree - I wonder if there's something about designing bosses for effectively infinite-duration, but limited-throughput healing that encourages this. With WoW, the healer's mana works as a "time limit" for the duration of a boss fight, and the healer can typically spike heal very powerfully. However with SWTOR, you have continually regenerating energy, but it's very hard to spike heal effectively (and recover), so there's no limit to how long you could heal for, just to how much you can heal for in a specific period.

    I'm not sure why this would lead to mega-HP bosses, but it does - they really do tend to feel like they should have been dead by the time they reach 50% HP in most cases.

  10. #10
    To be honest, in SWTOR mobs with more hp do increase the difficulty level, just like it used to in Vanilla WoW. Mobs that have more hp and hit harder make it harder to heal and resources are finite in SWTOR. Keyword right there. It's part of the challenge not to run out of force, run into overheating, or run out of ammo.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    To be honest, in SWTOR mobs with more hp do increase the difficulty level, just like it used to in Vanilla WoW. Mobs that have more hp and hit harder make it harder to heal and resources are finite in SWTOR. Keyword right there. It's part of the challenge not to run out of force, run into overheating, or run out of ammo.
    I wouldn't say so. A lot of the extra health mobs have while you're leveling (I don't know about endgame yet) is really unneeded extra health. I'm a level 35 Commando specced in DPS and I mostly heal dungeons because healers are more needed. There's really no struggle to running out of ammo if you play smart. The mechanics aren't interesting at all, and I'm not expecting low level flashpoint mechanics to be interesting. I'm not expecting them to take upwards of 10 minutes though, either.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I wouldn't say so. A lot of the extra health mobs have while you're leveling (I don't know about endgame yet) is really unneeded extra health. I'm a level 35 Commando specced in DPS and I mostly heal dungeons because healers are more needed. There's really no struggle to running out of ammo if you play smart. The mechanics aren't interesting at all, and I'm not expecting low level flashpoint mechanics to be interesting. I'm not expecting them to take upwards of 10 minutes though, either.
    You don't expect instances to last more than 10 minutes? How can you be serious? If you haven't experienced resource issues up to lvl 25 , it simply means the game isn't hard enough :P

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    You don't expect instances to last more than 10 minutes? How can you be serious? If you haven't experienced resource issues up to lvl 25 , it simply means the game isn't hard enough :P
    I meant boss fights, not instances. We're getting Lich King length boss fights with Hogger mechanics.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  14. #14
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    Bioware clearly still has a lot to learn when it comes to encounter design.

    That's actually one of the few aspects where I think they could have copied more off WoW.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    God I wiped on those asshole 5 times last night. I had to CC the twillek 4 times each attempt, the dps was so fucking slow. If you ever wanted evidence for an argument for having dmg meters their it is.
    You wiped because of slow DPS. That seem's like an effective damage meter to me.

  16. #16
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    You wiped because of slow DPS. That seem's like an effective damage meter to me.
    Yea but its hard to tell which clown wasnt pulling his or her respective weight and more importantly what they were doing wrong.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    To be honest, in SWTOR mobs with more hp do increase the difficulty level, just like it used to in Vanilla WoW. Mobs that have more hp and hit harder make it harder to heal and resources are finite in SWTOR. Keyword right there. It's part of the challenge not to run out of force, run into overheating, or run out of ammo.
    No, this is outright wrong.

    Resources are NOT finite in SWTOR. Mana is finite in WoW. Energy, however (which my IA healer uses, for example) is NOT finite. It is limited only in THROUGHPUT, which is different.

    Managing resources is a challenge, I agree, but healing a boss for 10 minutes is not two times as hard as healing a boss for 5 minutes. That's just damn silly. If I can heal a boss AT ALL, I can heal that boss FOREVER, in SWTOR (unless there's a stacking debuff or it enrages, but that's not what you're talking about). That is different to WoW's Mana-based healing, where I can heal a boss for X period (+ or minus a percentage depending on people playing smart), then I'm just out. So anyway, point is, 10 minute fights don't make me sweat more than 5 minute ones, thus the huge amounts of boss HP are pointless. A 10-minute boss is at best 5% harder than a 5-minute one with the same abilities (and only because I might fat-finger something or get distracted).

    High damage is totally different from high HP, notice - again, with this being SWTOR, there is a maximum THROUGHPUT issue - not a finite resource one. If a bunch of people stand in the fire in WoW, it puts more pressure on the DPS, because the healer can't heal for as long - but he probably can burn a bunch of mana to keep everyone up. If a bunch of people stand in the fire in SWTOR, well, there's a maximum amount on you can heal, so they may well just die, but you won't permanently run out of healing juice.

    This produces situations like one I saw last night - where the two DPS died due to standing in fire - so I just healed the tank for a really, really long time until he killed the boss - because I could manage my Energy and heal for an indefinite period. This wouldn't necessarily have been possible in WoW, as I might eventually have bottomed-out, mana-wise.

  18. #18
    I've been group questing pretty much the whole way thru now (Level 26) with 3 other friend. We try to do all group quests (No one of ur is healer) and doing these without a healer is SO much fun imo. It really require some coordination on some bosses

  19. #19
    They are bosses, bosses are suposed to take longer then normal mobs and they should be hard to kill.

    Basicly this was my reaction.


  20. #20
    oh god your complaing about WORLD HEROICS?

    dude go into a flashpoint that is where it is at them are the best world heroics aka Heroic 2+ and heroic 4+ are just teaser to what flashpoints have to offer.

    heroic 2+ and heroic 4+ are just quests that recommend you take 2+ or 4+ people to help you through it,.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

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