So how is the PVP thus far?

[Gerion]

The PVP is meh to me. Bioware's version of DR doesn't feel very effective since it relies on you eating full duration stuns not to mention that it doesn't stop snares. They just put way too many long stun and root spells in the game. Healing is extremely powerful especially for high level players since there's no healing debuffs. Fought two on one against a 50 healer on a turret node and he just laughed at us.

Also, the PVP rewards system is to be honest quite horribly implemented. It rewards the early PVPers with large advantages over new players. They will have large amounts of expertise gear (which increases damage dealt, healing, and damage reduction versus players) against fresh players. Fully champion geared players will have at least a 10-15+% advantage in all those categories. Premade 50 groups absolutely trash any non-50 premade warzone matches. I know this because I've been in some. It cannot be fun being camped at your spawn ledge as a lowbie trying out PVP for the first time. Or losing 5-0 in Huttball while our premade is just camping with the ball and farming kills for another 9 minutes.

Also, RNG champion bags are a poor design at best. A player I know opened 20 bags and got only commendations while I got champ main hand token, ear piece, chest piece, and relic from less bags than him. Rewarding players based on RNG and not on time devoted to PVP is wrong imo.

[vian]

If you play a healer, prepare to run LoS like a mad man.

[PuliGT]

The PVP is meh to me. Bioware's version of DR doesn't feel very effective since it relies on you eating full duration stuns not to mention that it doesn't stop snares. They just put way too many long stun and root spells in the game. Healing is extremely powerful especially for high level players since there's no healing debuffs. Fought two on one against a 50 healer on a turret node and he just laughed at us.

Also, the PVP rewards system is to be honest quite horribly implemented. It rewards the early PVPers with large advantages over new players. They will have large amounts of expertise gear (which increases damage dealt, healing, and damage reduction versus players) against fresh players. Fully champion geared players will have at least a 10-15+% advantage in all those categories. Premade 50 groups absolutely trash any non-50 premade warzone matches. I know this because I've been in some. It cannot be fun being camped at your spawn ledge as a lowbie trying out PVP for the first time. Or losing 5-0 in Huttball while our premade is just camping with the ball and farming kills for another 9 minutes.

Also, RNG champion bags are a poor design at best. A player I know opened 20 bags and got only commendations while I got champ main hand token, ear piece, chest piece, and relic from less bags than him. Rewarding players based on RNG and not on time devoted to PVP is wrong imo.

About healing debuffs, isn't there a flat 30% debuff to healing in pvp? Or do you mean that there are no castable healing debuffs (e.g. Mortal Strike from WoW)?

Your example seemed to be two lower level players versus a level 50 healer, so that may be more indicative of problems with the bolstering system more so than healing itself being too strong.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I am loving the PVP in SWTOR. Everything feels right, coming from WoW PVP it is a lot better, more fun.

I do think they need to reduce the amount of CC it takes to get to full resolve. A simple tweak like increasing the amount of resolve you get from each CC by 20-30%. That will help a lot.

Apart from that, despite the 30% healing debuff in PVP, everything feels quite balanced.

Huttball is AMAZING fun when you get to know how to pass the ball and use pulls and charges to move the ball carrier around.

I can imagine very advanced huttball tactics and positions, very similar to American Football, with set plays and counterplays. It would make for an amazing video, with human commentator explaining the plays.

A Huttball league with premades that have tactics and defensive and offensive positions would be great.

[Deleted]

In my experience, the PVP is basically horrible. Its a zergy mess and the ability delay just wrecks the whole experience. I played maybe 3/4 warzones in the first few days of playing the game, and haven't queued since. It reminds me exactly of PVP in Rift, Aion and Conan - in other words its pretty awful.

It all comes down to how lacking in responsiveness your avatar is. I can't imagine that anyone coming to this game from WOW will actually enjoy this. WOW despite all its many well documented faults, has managed to make the gameplay exceptionally smooth and responsive, and it has always been this way. I was gutted to find that SWTOR was similar to the other 'B' level MMOs in this respect, but in all honesty, I expected it to be that way from the very first second I took over my character in the starting zone of the game.

The resetting camera makes kiting almost impossibe; the lack of fluidity when transitioning between abilities; the weird disconnect from what button you press and what happens on screen; the animations that seem out of sync and sometimes over-ride your ability to move. There's just too much wrong here, and I have already basically discounted PVP as a reason to keep playing this game.

I love certain things about this game, but PVP is absolutely not one of those things, and its basically part of a wider and insidious problem - which has been referenced many times already in this thread - the ability delay responsivenss clunkiness 'thing'.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I like the layout of the warzones and huttball can be fun in you are in a group that is objective oriented...but if you get a group that is not you are just asking for a loss. Long duration stuns that every class has is annoying as hell. You get chain stunned (which happens a lot) and its lights out.


Shadow Assassin....I feel waaaay OP. I am nigh unkillable and will just dps down anyone 1v1.

Commando Trooper...feels very gimped to me, but might be a L2P issue on my part. Lots of channeled/long cast abilities with long CD means that your hardest hitting stuff is usually stunned and locked out before ever getting to use it. If they could get further away from the melee in exchange for the lack of mobility I think they'd be ok...but they are the same casting distance as all my other characters atm.

Powertech BH...kind of sits in the middle. Doesn't feel OP to me, but definitely isn't squish and has a lot more mobility than my trooper. Lots of fun for PvP and PvE.

[Roose]

I played for several hours, by that I mean about 12, and despite the sketchy casting had a great time. I am braving it out as commando medic, so I had my share of frustrations. There were so many times were I swear I had heals go off and then suddenly target is dead.

CC felt a bit too strong and healing feels a bit weak, but after a while you really do start to pay more attention to where you are at and avoid a lot of knock-offs.

Alderaan has too much downtime. It is definitely my least favorite which is a surprise because it is closest to Arathi/Gil and that was my favorite style BG by far. Maybe it will get better as more strategies form.

Huttball has so much potential. I love it as is and some fixes and tweaks would go a long way. Those air lifts need better functionality for sure. I also appreciate the traps, but they do not need to be killers. I want the fire and poison to weaken them so I can kill them Would also be nice when you just so happen to find yourself flung into the mess. This game will prove to be quite a challenge to balance as players become more and more creative with tactics.

Voidstar is a ton of fun. I like how the action funnels to predetermined spots. The bridges also make for some epic moments, like grappling an emp as you fall to your death. I strolled in between two emps in the bridge and had a classic double-sided blast off. Can't wait to see how this one shapes up.

This all coming from a guy with a pos PC getting 20 fps if I am lucky. It is nice to know that the delay is being addressed. I am anxiously awaiting the first major fix patch. Very solid base to work with and I really look forward to seeing how they do in their first round of balancing and such.

[vizzle]

I like the layout of the warzones and huttball can be fun in you are in a group that is objective oriented...but if you get a group that is not you are just asking for a loss. Long duration stuns that every class has is annoying as hell. You get chain stunned (which happens a lot) and its lights out.


Shadow Assassin....I feel waaaay OP. I am nigh unkillable and will just dps down anyone 1v1.

Commando Trooper...feels very gimped to me, but might be a L2P issue on my part. Lots of channeled/long cast abilities with long CD means that your hardest hitting stuff is usually stunned and locked out before ever getting to use it. If they could get further away from the melee in exchange for the lack of mobility I think they'd be ok...but they are the same casting distance as all my other characters atm.

Powertech BH...kind of sits in the middle. Doesn't feel OP to me, but definitely isn't squish and has a lot more mobility than my trooper. Lots of fun for PvP and PvE.

Commando Troopers are amazing What level are you? If you're still low level, your abilities aren't that good for PvP yet. By the time you get half way through leveling though it really starts to shape up.

When you're on the run, use your instants. Grenade, the heat thing, the auto attack. When you've got time on your own, use Gravity Shot (or whatever it's called, Idunno really). Use your shield proactively because it has a short CD, as soon as someone jumps you, and use your stun + knockback wisely. Try to quick heal on CD when things are toughing it up.

[Fower]

if they dont fix the problem that causes fps going up and down and the ability delay, pvp will be 0, like loob said zergy crap, eating 10 seconds stuns/or any other sort of cc will just drive u nuts, but if u dont take it to serious can be fun

[Rooflesstoofless]

Commando Troopers are amazing What level are you? If you're still low level, your abilities aren't that good for PvP yet. By the time you get half way through leveling though it really starts to shape up.

When you're on the run, use your instants. Grenade, the heat thing, the auto attack. When you've got time on your own, use Gravity Shot (or whatever it's called, Idunno really). Use your shield proactively because it has a short CD, as soon as someone jumps you, and use your stun + knockback wisely. Try to quick heal on CD when things are toughing it up.

You are right. I went back since writing that and changed up my playstyle and its definitely an improvement. Plus I just got Grav Shot since the original post and that does make a difference. Kiting melee till die = fun and exciting.

[Deleted]

As a note about "premades" - all of the warzones have at least 8 players per side and you can't queue as anything larger than a 4-man group.

I suppose it's possible for there to be two "pre-made teams" of four placed together as the same team.

[Grimmak]

PVP is great. My Arsenal specced Merc is 23 right now, and I've been topping damage meters since about level 15. And I'm usually not the only one. Most of what I've seen shows Bounty Hunter damage in PVP is crazy.

Also, I like how many commendations you got per battle, to how much PVP gear costs. At level 20, you can get a good piece of gear in just a couple of wins. Doesn't feel so grindy.

PRO-TIP: At level 20, go to your Light/Dark side vendor and buy two relics, and go to your PVP vendor and buy two implants. You'll have a significant gear advantage over everyone who doesn't know about those things, which, in my time /inspecting people, is most of them.

[Saverem]

As someone who has gotten rank 32 and rank 36 on my Sniper and Juggernaut I think WZ PvP is OK.

It's not great, it's not poor, it's OK. There are some aspects that are better than WoW and some that are worse.

Pro: The 3 WZs seem to be designed better than any BG that WoW has put out thus far. Huttball is very cool (but it has it's problems).
Con: Combat itself is worse than WoW combat, the GCD in this game is longer than WoW's so it's a bit slower paced. The combat doesn't feel as fluid, they REALLY need to fix jumping, it's clunky as hell. The charge mechanic is awesome though.

Pro: The trophy system is a better way of rewarding than WoW's token system.
Con: The trophy system still needs work, right now it's rewarding only selfish rewards like doing damage, getting a hit/heal over 2.5k, etc. It needs to reward a player for actually contributing to the win such as, capping a node, scoring a touchdown, killing a player with the ball, defending a node (hitting someone trying to cap), passing the ball in Huttball, etc.

Pro: The resolve bar is a very cool feature, it's simple, yet very useful.
Con: The server balance is very skewed towards the Empire, so with no inter-server queueing, it takes a while for the Empire to actually get into a PvP. And when they do, they usually fight against Republic pre-mades. Empire pre-mades are usually discouraged because it takes an even longer time to get into PVP where as the Republic pre-made is encouraged because they get in almost instantly and dominate. Because of this, whenever an Empire vs Republic match comes up, the Empire will lose about 80% of the time (at least this is how it is on my server).

Pro: Classes are fairly balanced, there isn't 1 single class that can dominate any other.
Con: With that said, classes and mechanics still aren't balanced. Ranged int his game has an extreme advantage over melee. WoW balanced range vs melee in that range requires to be static in order to do big damage and melees have close-ins to get in their faces. In SWTOR, ranged can dish out big numbers while moving and kiting the melee. There are also WZs like Huttball with several levels where the ranged can just nest on the top catwalk and snipe out the melee with relative ease (I do this all the time on my Sniper, it pretty much guarantees me at least 7 trophies by the end of the match).

There are also certain abilities that are just a bit too OP right now. Death from Above hits too hard right now, it does 4k damage to 5 people. They need to cut that damage by at least 30% or increase the cooldown to 2m+. The SI knockback is on too short a cooldown, increasing it to 45s would be a perfect tweak. Same with the Mercenary's knockback, it knocks back, does damage and snares, one of those need to go. The Marauder/Juggernaut definitely needs some love in PvP, they are weaksauce, even Taugrim agrees they need a buff or 2.


Overall, PvP isn't the best, but it'll do. When GW2 comes out, I'll be playing SWTOR mostly for PvE and GW2 will be my PvP game.

[Zechs-cenarius]

Like........................what? Specifically, what did you think was 'horrid'?

Lets go with no diminishing returns. Constant ability lag in warzones. The denial that expertise gear will not tip the scale of a warzone. No pvp level brackets make it so that level 50 premades can steam roll all the level 10-20 people as they drop teabags on their chins. Yeah...thats why he didnt sub.

[Joker12489]

As someone who has gotten rank 32 and rank 36 on my Sniper and Juggernaut I think WZ PvP is OK.

It's not great, it's not poor, it's OK. There are some aspects that are better than WoW and some that are worse.

Pro: The 3 WZs seem to be designed better than any BG that WoW has put out thus far. Huttball is very cool (but it has it's problems).
Con: Combat itself is worse than WoW combat, the GCD in this game is longer than WoW's so it's a bit slower paced. The combat doesn't feel as fluid, they REALLY need to fix jumping, it's clunky as hell. The charge mechanic is awesome though.

Pro: The trophy system is a better way of rewarding than WoW's token system.
Con: The trophy system still needs work, right now it's rewarding only selfish rewards like doing damage, getting a hit/heal over 2.5k, etc. It needs to reward a player for actually contributing to the win such as, capping a node, scoring a touchdown, killing a player with the ball, defending a node (hitting someone trying to cap), passing the ball in Huttball, etc.

Pro: The resolve bar is a very cool feature, it's simple, yet very useful.
Con: The server balance is very skewed towards the Empire, so with no inter-server queueing, it takes a while for the Empire to actually get into a PvP. And when they do, they usually fight against Republic pre-mades. Empire pre-mades are usually discouraged because it takes an even longer time to get into PVP where as the Republic pre-made is encouraged because they get in almost instantly and dominate. Because of this, whenever an Empire vs Republic match comes up, the Empire will lose about 80% of the time (at least this is how it is on my server).

Pro: Classes are fairly balanced, there isn't 1 single class that can dominate any other.
Con: With that said, classes and mechanics still aren't balanced. Ranged int his game has an extreme advantage over melee. WoW balanced range vs melee in that range requires to be static in order to do big damage and melees have close-ins to get in their faces. In SWTOR, ranged can dish out big numbers while moving and kiting the melee. There are also WZs like Huttball with several levels where the ranged can just nest on the top catwalk and snipe out the melee with relative ease (I do this all the time on my Sniper, it pretty much guarantees me at least 7 trophies by the end of the match).

There are also certain abilities that are just a bit too OP right now. Death from Above hits too hard right now, it does 4k damage to 5 people. They need to cut that damage by at least 30% or increase the cooldown to 2m+. The SI knockback is on too short a cooldown, increasing it to 45s would be a perfect tweak. Same with the Mercenary's knockback, it knocks back, does damage and snares, one of those need to go. The Marauder/Juggernaut definitely needs some love in PvP, they are weaksauce, even Taugrim agrees they need a buff or 2.


Overall, PvP isn't the best, but it'll do. When GW2 comes out, I'll be playing SWTOR mostly for PvE and GW2 will be my PvP game.

This is very good response gives good views on what others have been saying so far and i'm very happy to see such good points.

[Saverem]

Oh, forgot some other stuff:

Targeting in this game (tab and point clicking) is pretty bad, can't put my finger on why, but it's frustrating. They need to make it crisper.

Also, don't like the fact that there is no combat text in chat window option, some times I want to know who the jerk was that hit me for 4k, but I can't.

Inability to look at scoreboard during a match is stupid.

No addons is stupid.

Ugh the more I think about it, the more I get pissed, so I'm going to stop now. They really need to fix those problems, most of them are easy changes (scoreboard and combat window) and I don't know why they haven't implemented them.

[Deleted]

This is very good response gives good views on what others have been saying so far and i'm very happy to see such good points.

I agree, but please don't quote big posts like that, especially not with a tiny response.

[Repefe]

Tbh the PvP in TOR made me look forward to GW2 very much. TOR PvP is fun. But the number of pvp features is limited and there is a lot of room for futher improvements.

[Deleted]

Oh, forgot some other stuff:

Targeting in this game (tab and point clicking) is pretty bad, can't put my finger on why, but it's frustrating. They need to make it crisper.

Tab targeting is all over the place and clicking a character in a crowd is really difficult. Allso a problem in pve - try to mouse pick a explosive prop behind a group of enemys. Sometimes you just cant.
Fighting in Warzones the size of a toilet dosnt help either.
Abillity delay is another big issue - it helped abit for me when i turned down texture details to low. Seems like TOR, has a problem with texture loading times, fps often takes a huge dive when entering buildings with detailed maps.


Even with those relative big issues i actually find pvp really fun; believe it or not. If they fix Ability delay and add some maps the same size as AB or AV, Tor would be the most fun mmo pvp on the market imo.

[Deleted]

No DR makes the PVP miserable. Break out of one stun just to get a full duration stun a millisecond later.

The hell are you talking about brah? Check the white bar on the side of your or your target's portrait. That's DR. So yes, not only is it in-game, but you can even see it visually unlike in other games.

To the OP - the PvP is fairly balanced, with ranged obviously having a huge advantage on Huttball, since they can just stand on the upper platforms and nuke whoever they feel like. But in terms of class vs. class it feels balanced. There's also space for any spec in PvP. I've been tanking Warzones and having a lot of fun, unlike in WoW where entering a battleground as Prot will allow certain advantages but all in all you are completely useless besides carrying the flag.