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  1. #21
    Sorry spine is taking so long. New years n all =p

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    I can't agree Disc is more viable than Holy for Morchok at all. Don't forget; what is optimal for you may not be optimal for other raid compositions. Otherwise, thanks for some tips and bringing up some pros & cons about the speccs for each fight.

  3. #23
    edit: never mind, figured it out
    Last edited by Ayreon; 2012-01-02 at 07:20 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    I can't agree Disc is more viable than Holy for Morchok at all. Don't forget; what is optimal for you may not be optimal for other raid compositions. Otherwise, thanks for some tips and bringing up some pros & cons about the speccs for each fight.
    If you can provide an instance in which holy is better than disc, other than having 3+ priests, I'd be happy to reconsider.

    Doubtless holy can outperform disc on the meters but thats not really what I'm looking at.

  5. #25
    Jelly, what healers do you have for your 4-healed Ultraxion? Also, do you have a warrior tank? If so, this question is moot.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyphant View Post
    If you can provide an instance in which holy is better than disc, other than having 3+ priests, I'd be happy to reconsider.

    Doubtless holy can outperform disc on the meters but thats not really what I'm looking at.
    What are you looking at if I may ask? I know this guide is geared toward 25 man, but in my 10 man I'd very much hesitant to do Morchock-H as Disc. The higher throughput and ability to CoH while knocked up in the air is just too good to ignore. And 10 man is rougher b/c the choices in soakers for stomp are very limited.

  7. #27
    The Patient keRmis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    What are you looking at if I may ask? I know this guide is geared toward 25 man, but in my 10 man I'd very much hesitant to do Morchock-H as Disc. The higher throughput and ability to CoH while knocked up in the air is just too good to ignore. And 10 man is rougher b/c the choices in soakers for stomp are very limited.
    Shielding soakers (as a disc mast / hast build) > CoH imo.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    What are you looking at if I may ask? I know this guide is geared toward 25 man, but in my 10 man I'd very much hesitant to do Morchock-H as Disc. The higher throughput and ability to CoH while knocked up in the air is just too good to ignore. And 10 man is rougher b/c the choices in soakers for stomp are very limited.
    Solo healing maybe but if you four heal it Disc is just fine on 10 man. Even better than Holy I'd say. And two healing it is just making the fight much harder than it really is. You can shield in air.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by keRmis View Post
    Shielding soakers (as a disc mast / hast build) > CoH imo.
    That's a lousy argument. Shielding soakers is definitely not a requirement for the fight, especially on 10 man.
    It's 200k dmg pre mitigation. Easily doable unless you have a DPS warrior soaking with the tank that pops Recklessness during execute phase when the Morchok twins are hitting for 20% harder, and in that case even a Disc powered PW Shield won't save him/her.

    It's a throughput fight through and through, and the sustained amount of healing you can put out matters as you need to make sure you don't fall behind with the incoming damage. You need to be able to last long enough for the next Black Blood of the Earth time out where it effectively resets everything. The problem with Disc's throughput is that the spec's aoe healing is not sustained at all. Without Archangel, it's subpar HPS.

    The rub is realizing that PW Shield + current health together is what counts. If you're bubbling someone at half health don't expect them to miraculously live through a stomp without some other external cooldown. At the end of the day what matters is that incoming damage is countered by enough outgoing healing. While you're derping shields, someone else is carrying the HPS for your side. :|

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    That's a lousy argument. Shielding soakers is definitely not a requirement for the fight, especially on 10 man.
    It's 200k dmg pre mitigation. Easily doable unless you have a DPS warrior soaking with the tank that pops Recklessness during execute phase when the Morchok twins are hitting for 20% harder, and in that case even a Disc powered PW Shield won't save him/her.

    It's a throughput fight through and through, and the sustained amount of healing you can put out matters as you need to make sure you don't fall behind with the incoming damage. You need to be able to last long enough for the next Black Blood of the Earth time out where it effectively resets everything. The problem with Disc's throughput is that the spec's aoe healing is not sustained at all. Without Archangel, it's subpar HPS.

    The rub is realizing that PW Shield + current health together is what counts. If you're bubbling someone at half health don't expect them to miraculously live through a stomp without some other external cooldown. At the end of the day what matters is that incoming damage is countered by enough outgoing healing. While you're derping shields, someone else is carrying the HPS for your side. :|
    Discipline is fine on Morchok. Stop embarrasing yourself.

  11. #31
    Your viewpoint without a counter argument for support is useless. You say Disc is better on 10 man but don't say why.

    I'd rather wait for Jellyphant's take on the subject. It's his thread and guide. And he was the one I was original directing my questions to.

    -T

  12. #32

  13. #33
    How about we just say that both are just as viable and remain best friends? <3

  14. #34

    Additions

    I'm 5/8H atm and getting into p2 several times a night (25m). Most of it seems accurate in my opinion, with a few fixes with the spirit reforging. I universally ran 2200 spirit with no spirit trinkets before i received heart of the unliving (2/2 veiled shadows). Now, I am completely reforged out of spirit and have 3/3 darkness and no talent points into shadowfiend (1800 spirit). I generally can pull off ~15k in p1 Blackhorn by mainly keeping PW:S on tanks, POM on CD, and PoH/penancing the raid. The ONLY time barrier should not be glyphed is on yor'sajh, where you replace it with penance. Penance is by far the most efficient heal for that fight, as it does around 45k heals and gives 1 stack. I run a full haste build with ~2700 haste and 1700 mastery now, and haven't gone a fight yet without a top 10 world parse (except H ultraxion where healers pad meters). I'd recommend trying this build if you have the means to do so, as it is overpowered as hell.

    Also, run inner fire on ultraxion, Morchok, and Blackhorn. I have inner fire glyphed for blackhorn, as it reduces damage by charges from 75k to 52k, which is life changing. It allows you to soak a charge or two during intense healing periods without really caring. I am not specced into inspiration (2 shammys) and have desperate prayer for fights like yor'sajh and blackhorn (for when you get fucked by two charges on both sides...and have to soak one).

    Hope this helped some people! The guide was great and will be helpful to many guilds progressing through the fight.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    How about we just say that both are just as viable and remain best friends? <3
    I'm fine with that, the OP is the one that says Holy doesn't work on Morchok

  16. #36
    wol rankings do make a solid claim that disc performs better, on average, than holy on morchok.

    I do believe, however, that most hpriests simply don't precast much. Personally, I usually outheal our disc on this one.

  17. #37
    Be very careful with HPS reports on WoL, they are very misleading due to how shield absorbs work versus collateral HoT ticks.
    Overall Healing is a much better indicator

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    Your viewpoint without a counter argument for support is useless. You say Disc is better on 10 man but don't say why.

    I'd rather wait for Jellyphant's take on the subject. It's his thread and guide. And he was the one I was original directing my questions to.

    -T
    I felt no need to make a counter argument since I was just trying to stop you from embarrassing yourself. You say bla bla bla for why Discipline would not work but in reality, if you have ever done the fight as Discipline, you'd know that Discipline works just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    I'm fine with that, the OP is the one that says Holy doesn't work on Morchok
    In 25. But I agree, Holy seems to be viable on Morchok in 25.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 2012-01-04 at 01:50 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    Overall Healing is a much better indicator
    The WoL rankings are all based on HPS(e). HPS(e) = HPS x (activity time / 100). Ranking HPS is as good a measure of performance as healing done.
    There's more on WoL's eHPS measure over at the WoL forums.

  20. #40
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    Would love a similar guide for 10 mans but thanks for this one too!

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