Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    The WoL rankings are all based on HPS(e). HPS(e) = HPS x (activity time / 100). Ranking HPS is as good a measure of performance as healing done.
    There's more on WoL's eHPS measure over at the WoL forums.

    Exactly my point, the way the HPS is value is calculated favors Disc and can be very misleading.Holy EoL and Renew ticks deflate the value for Holy by extending activity time. I've seen reports where Disc priests have had several thousand more HPS than other healers and have less overall healing as such. Better to take total effective healing and dividing it by the total time of the fight if you want some sort of HPS marker for comparing healers from different logs, and looking at strictly just the effective total healing when comparing two healers from the same log. It's also why Disc can cheese certain HPS spikes, which they can not maintain.

    This isn't a radically new and exciting concept, it's how DPS reports have been analyzed since TBC. Classic example was Supremus in BT. A good shadow priest could top Damage Done that fight but their reported DPS value was usually one of the lowest in the raid.

    Of course, analyzing healing is much less one dimensional. A single well timed heal or proper dispelling are critical components to the fight that just never get really logged.

  2. #42
    No, it is not 'exactly your point'. You and I are saying exactly the opposite.

    HPS x Active Time = Healing Done
    %Activity Time = 100 x ( Active Time / Fight Duration )

    HPS(e) = HPS x (%Activity Time / 100)
    -> HPS(e) = [ Healing Done / Active Time ] x [ %Activity Time / 100 ]
    -> HPS(e) = [ Healing Done / Active Time ] x [ Active Time / Fight Duration ]
    -> HPS(e) = Healing Done / Fight Duration <--- This is what you're asking for, right? It's already there.


    WoL deflates holy's numbers? Rubbish. On the contrary, recount INFLATES your numbers because you should have lower activity than every other healer, and recount doesn't understand eHPS (although the developers think it does)
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2012-01-04 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #43
    Point is, activity time in WoL means whole fight lenght, not activity time of one person. Thats misunderstanding here.
    Edit: Activity time used to calculate HPS(e) that is
    Last edited by sahtila; 2012-01-04 at 06:41 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Flay- View Post
    What is jelly's character's name?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jelly/advanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    Your viewpoint without a counter argument for support is useless. You say Disc is better on 10 man but don't say why.

    I'd rather wait for Jellyphant's take on the subject. It's his thread and guide. And he was the one I was original directing my questions to.

    -T
    Well, my fellow priest in our 25 man runs holy for morchok and is able to keep his group alive just fine. I find my group has an easier time with efficiency and managing burst. If you have a resto druid healing with you, I'd recommend going disc so that they can focus on letting hots top people off without having to worry about someone getting bursted down. Otherwise you can run holy if you please. When I say things like holy isn't viable, I more mean it isn't optimal, in my humblest opinion.
    Last edited by Jellyphant; 2012-01-04 at 06:55 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyphant View Post
    Well, my fellow priest in our 25 man runs holy for morchok and is able to keep his group alive just fine. I find my group has an easier time with efficiency and managing burst. If you have a resto druid healing with you, I'd recommend going disc so that they can focus on letting hots top people off without having to worry about someone getting bursted down. Otherwise you can run holy if you please. When I say things like holy isn't viable, I more mean it isn't optimal, in my humblest opinion.
    But the definition between the two is greatly differed. It's not a misinterpretation, it's a misrepresentation more than anything.

    And then one factors in the assumption that someone has a Resto Druid being the defining point of whether or not a spec is viable, in which case it isn't.

    The only reason I'm Discipline for this fight is because I'm Primary Tank heals, so that our Paladins can spam Holy Radiance, not because Prayer-Aegis outweighs Echo (or any topic of shield spam, because we still keep our Holy Priests). And Druids? Who brings those to Dragon Soul?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyphant View Post
    Well, my fellow priest in our 25 man runs holy for morchok and is able to keep his group alive just fine. I find my group has an easier time with efficiency and managing burst. If you have a resto druid healing with you, I'd recommend going disc so that they can focus on letting hots top people off without having to worry about someone getting bursted down. Otherwise you can run holy if you please. When I say things like holy isn't viable, I more mean it isn't optimal, in my humblest opinion.
    Again 10 raid here, but:

    I do my side with a resto druid and prefer holy in Serenity stance. Roll Renews on everybody and binding heal / fheal / gheal as needed and PoH/CoH once a crystal explosion. Between refreshes on my renews, Serenity stacks up the wazoo, and black blood phase ... mana is definitely not an issue and I have zero need for any cooldowns. No HoH, no SF, and no DH.
    Last edited by Themos; 2012-01-05 at 06:33 AM.

  7. #47
    @Jelly: Having trouble on 25m HM Ultraxion. Here's our healing lineup: 2 Pallies, Tree, Disc, Shaman.
    Red Buff: Pally, Tree
    Green Buff: Pally, Shaman
    Blue Buff: Green Pally switches, Disc

    We are also benching a resto sham and disc priest. Are we doing this wrong?

  8. #48
    blue is wasted on a disc priest, give it to the paladin instead

  9. #49
    For purple on Yorsahj, both Renew and direct heals each give a stack of a debuff. But does casting a gheal while in Serenity still give only one stack? Similarly does Healing Touch refreshing Lifebloom duration give only one stack or four?

    I can go test this out in the raid finder, but if someone can save me the time I'd appreciate it.

  10. #50
    High Overlord Mikayo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    164
    Thank you Jellyphant, this was one of the most useful things I've read here in awhile. I appreciate the time you took to put this together and post it.
    Kyx | Odyssey of Mug'thol

  11. #51
    A HT refreshing LBx3 only causes one stack. Swiftmend only causes 1 stack on its target, even if that same person gains efflo. Also, efflo might not cause any stacks AT ALL but I can't find any real solid evidence. I've heard of guilds abusing LB refresh, but if you're 2 tanking you have to time things carefully. There are a total of 5 void bolts before the first deep corruption reset, and you can only safely roll 3 LBs+Rejuv on 2nd tank right before the reset.

    GHeal refreshing renew also only causes 1 stack of deep corruption, and I actually got to try this for a few pulls. It seems like a manageable solution to tank healing yor, as I didn't need to explode my tanks unless I had already made another error. GS can also completely recover 1 error tank healing yor, so it might work. But then we put a pally on it and he just had an easier time.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Flay- View Post
    @Jelly: Having trouble on 25m HM Ultraxion. Here's our healing lineup: 2 Pallies, Tree, Disc, Shaman.
    Red Buff: Pally, Tree
    Green Buff: Pally, Shaman
    Blue Buff: Green Pally switches, Disc

    We are also benching a resto sham and disc priest. Are we doing this wrong?
    The line up is fine (Actually the exact comp we ran on our first kill).

    If I were in your boat I would do the following

    Red: Pally / Tree
    Green: Disc / RSham
    Blue : Pally / Pally

    Disc scales horribly with green, but you'll be dpsing for a majority of the fight. The two pallies will really carry the crap out've you in the last minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    A HT refreshing LBx3 only causes one stack. Swiftmend only causes 1 stack on its target, even if that same person gains efflo. Also, efflo might not cause any stacks AT ALL but I can't find any real solid evidence. I've heard of guilds abusing LB refresh, but if you're 2 tanking you have to time things carefully. There are a total of 5 void bolts before the first deep corruption reset, and you can only safely roll 3 LBs+Rejuv on 2nd tank right before the reset.

    GHeal refreshing renew also only causes 1 stack of deep corruption, and I actually got to try this for a few pulls. It seems like a manageable solution to tank healing yor, as I didn't need to explode my tanks unless I had already made another error. GS can also completely recover 1 error tank healing yor, so it might work. But then we put a pally on it and he just had an easier time.
    I prefer to not put pallies on tanks, as I find pallies throwing beacon on tanks is much more efficient (no beacon heals cause stacks, so a pally can spam heal other people / pets and do a lot of free tank healing).

    To answer the original question, no heal gives more than one stack, including heals that refresh hots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikayo View Post
    Thank you Jellyphant, this was one of the most useful things I've read here in awhile. I appreciate the time you took to put this together and post it.
    The support is greatly appreciated =]

  13. #53
    My 10 man, doesn't have a paladin. I'm aware of the cheese they can pull off but we have to make due without that advantage. I figure I can go Serenity for purple and roll renews on upwards of 5 people and keep the refreshing the Renew on all of us with either Gheal or Binding Heal. Between that and PoM spam one of the groups should be fine. I figure the Resto druid can do the other group and we should be good.

    Would be nice to know if Efflorescence counts as a heal, guess I should check the Druid section.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    My 10 man, doesn't have a paladin. I'm aware of the cheese they can pull off but we have to make due without that advantage. I figure I can go Serenity for purple and roll renews on upwards of 5 people and keep the refreshing the Renew on all of us with either Gheal or Binding Heal. Between that and PoM spam one of the groups should be fine. I figure the Resto druid can do the other group and we should be good.

    Would be nice to know if Efflorescence counts as a heal, guess I should check the Druid section.
    This should cover it. PoM also becomes far more potent in a 10 man scenario.
    I've found as far as raid healing goes, as disc it never takes more than a few spot bubbles. I've actually been able to afford using PoH on a group before, as we never seem to go above 3 stacks on raid members. I think you'll find the tank healing portion to be far more challenging.

  15. #55
    First off Great guide. Even tho ill never see any of this content, it was nicely put together and made very easy to read and understand.

    Wondering if you will be making an normal mode one for the sorry noobs like myself.

  16. #56
    I think even if efflo did cause a stack against its other two targets, it would probably still be worth using swiftmend. Druid has to swiftmend around the time of 2nd void bolt anyway, nobody in the raid should be at 4 stacks yet at that point.

    That would be swiftmend + efflo (totals about 3.5xSwiftmend) for 3 stacks total. Pretty good.
    I'd say just try it and see

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyphant View Post
    This should cover it. PoM also becomes far more potent in a 10 man scenario.
    I've found as far as raid healing goes, as disc it never takes more than a few spot bubbles. I've actually been able to afford using PoH on a group before, as we never seem to go above 3 stacks on raid members. I think you'll find the tank healing portion to be far more challenging.
    Keep in mind that Holy also has Test of Faith, EoL, and renew refreshes. I did some back of the napkin math and assuming no greater heal crits occur, it's still ~ 48K healing per stack under ideal ToF conditions and ~42K with no ToF at all. Realistic real world scenario is ~45K per stack. And this is without considering LW at all. That and PoM, and it should be gravy.

    And I did look into Efflorescence. The Swiftmend itself does create a charge, but the Efflcorescence does not. The latter falls in the same category as PoM, LW, Word of Glory, Beacon Heals, etc.

    I should also note that what I did notice last night is that Sanctuary and Healing Rain give only one stack even if you put them down and have everyone stand on it prior to getting the corruption debuff. All 10 of us got 2 stacks instantly last night. I don't think that's a good thing at all, especially if someone ventures off of it and on it again for whatever reason.

  18. #58

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyphant View Post
    Spine finally down. If anyone cares to look at our logs for it they're here :

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-t3vmc3pa1zt672bh/
    Hey Gratz! What were you doing with regards to Plasma healing? Just rolling renews?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    Hey Gratz! What were you doing with regards to Plasma healing? Just rolling renews?
    Yes. A large majority of the debuff healing was renew, the rest came from efficient aoe (prayer of mending / coh) and the occassional greater heal during a lull

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-07 at 07:37 AM ----------

    Madness down. Ez fight

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •