I'm thinking about passing on GW2, but I want to get my facts straight first.

[I stand in fire]

So after doing some homework on GW2 at first seemed really fun and I considered about trying it out when it comes out. However, I found a couple things I found troubling. I'm hoping someone can address them before I made the decision to whether or no to pass on GW2

-Like dungeons don't offer any real reward than a challenge since you can get gear that is just as good everywhere else. It doesn't give me a reason to run these instances again after doing their "story" mode. So what reason is there to do that exploratory mode thing?

-No raids? If there is no raid-like instances what will PVErs like me will do at the end game? I like raiding in WoW because I love running with 9 or 24 other guys killing bosses. Not just for the challenge and rewards like achievements, but the social aspect too. I have fond memories of dicking around in vent with my guildies while working on content. Is there anything to replace raiding? BTW, I don't do PvP... EVER.

-So what is there to do at 80? From what I see is just big events, pvp(yuck), dungeons that really don't reward you, and go back and re-experience the leveling content.

[Squirrelbanes]

The "should GW2 have raids" and the "false assumptions" threads here would be a good place to start Some good answers for you in those.

[Edge-]

The reason to do the exploration mode: Because it's fun. There shouldn't be a tangible reward for everything you do in a game. I'm not attacking you, but there is this mindset that WoW and other games have promoted that players should be rewarded with something tangible for EVERYTHING they do. I think that's backwards for a lot of it because it's the rewards the keep players around, not the actual quality of the content (Skinner Boxes aren't really that fun once you realize you're in one).

As for the raids, the WHOLE game is "end game". They don't do what most MMO's have been doing, which is create this prolonged "tutorial" with leveling, and then throw out everything you did while leveling and put you into the "real" game. Instead, you will continue to explore new zones, take part in dynamics events (some of which are "raids" as they require 10 or more people to complete), do dungeons and PvP. Raiding actually limits the amount of stuff that is available at max level in games for the most part sadly.

[Deleted]

To fully enjoy Guild Wars 2 you've got to have a different mindset to WoWs gear treadmill, GW2 will have one but based on aesthetics not stats. the reason to run dungeons is to get the bet looking gear possible but also because its fun and a challenge still every time you try it(it has been said when they've let the press play they have tried explorer mode many were unable to get past the first few bosses) GW2 dungeons are nothing like WoW only what they stand for in name.
Raiding wise you've got the elite DE's you could always get a bunch of guildies and go do these which are harder than your standard DE (note in demos the DE bosses the Shatter, Teqautal etc they were nerfed for the demos so will be harder than they actually look) And to make the boss harder all you do is chuck more at him.
I know this is probably starting to get overused right now but ArenaNet has said "end game starts from level 1" this is because of the sidekick system you can either 'level up' wit a friend to do higher level zones earlier or scale down just above the average level for a zone so you can do th DEs without ROFLPWNing it so you won't feel like your re-experiancing the leveling content say how you would in WoW.
Then of course you have PvP but you should check out WvWvW its going to have a lot of PvE mechanics including DE's.

[Deleted]

gw = pvp

/thread

[Mif]

gw = pvp

/thread

You seem to have a problem differentiating PVE content from raiding.
You see, PVE stands for "player vs enviroment", not "scripted boss fight".

The entire world is PVE content. If the game were just PVP you'd only need to enter a name before being thrown into a PVP map ala online shooters.

[SPeedy26]

So after doing some homework on GW2 at first seemed really fun and I considered about trying it out when it comes out. However, I found a couple things I found troubling. I'm hoping someone can address them before I made the decision to whether or no to pass on GW2

-Like dungeons don't offer any real reward than a challenge since you can get gear that is just as good everywhere else.

How does adding numbers to an item make it a anymore of a "real reward?"

It doesn't give me a reason to run these instances again after doing their "story" mode. So what reason is there to do that exploratory mode thing?

actually imo their is less motivation to do the dungeon that has the awesome +3 sword because their is an even awesomer +7 sword you can get in the next dungeon, but I think your miss understanding explorable mode, they are 3 new and different dungeons to run that fits with the aesthetics of the Story mode. with that said the top reasons to do exploratory mode is...
1.) It is an enjoyable experience (fun)
2.) they are different then the story mode
3.) the item that drops their looks Fing cool

-No raids? If there is no raid-like instances what will PVErs like me will do at the end game? I like raiding in WoW because I love running with 9 or 24 other guys killing bosses. Not just for the challenge and rewards like achievements, but the social aspect too. I have fond memories of dicking around in vent with my guildies while working on content. Is there anything to replace raiding? BTW, I don't do PvP... EVER.

In GW2 the bosses raid you
elite DE are community wide raids in which you and your sever takes on the giant whatever before it finishes it's end the world spell (half-minute hero ftw :P), they scaling difficulty with each active player their is and Arena net has made it imposable to troll during these boss fights.

-So what is there to do at 80? From what I see is just big events, pvp(yuck), dungeons that really don't reward you, and go back and re-experience the leveling content.

well jimmy there's elite DE's (open raiding), pvp, dungens, and the ability to redo content without making an alt. ohh and btw GW2 doesn't need to keep you playing it doesn't require a subscription fee meaning you can jump in and out when ever you want. on of the regular posters here referred to it as "an online skyrim" think of it like that, if you get bored wait for the expansion.

[Kadeth]

you can jump in and out when ever you want. on of the regular posters here referred to it as "an online skyrim" think of it like that, if you get bored wait for the expansion.

I've read this comparison a lot on these boards too, but I can see why it worries/displeases people. I liked Skyrim a lot, it was great, but I logged like 110 hours according to Steam in the game and now I'm kind of bored with it. I don't remember how many weeks it's been since I played it. When I was getting hyped for GW2, I wanted another all-consuming MMO that I could come home from work and sit down to for a few hours, and while I think I'll get that for a while, it sounds like it'll end after a while without some kind of monotonous, perpetual content. After all, everyone always says "you don't -have- to keep playing it, since you aren't paying for it!" But what if we want to keep playing it?

As much as gear treadmills and "skinner boxes" are disparaged around here, they give you something to do while you're waiting for that next expansion, that next big patch. The game will be fun, and I think other MMOs are inherently fun, but it seems like where the WoW-model games encourage you to keep playing with their treadmill system, GW2 encourages to have your fill and then take a break.

[Wrathonia]

Well OP, if you are married to the gear treadmill and can't think past that and actually play just for fun, personal challenge and exploration, this game probably isn't for you. I hate to say that and scare someone off, but if you need that constant carrot on a stick to keep playing and enjoy the game, this probably won't be your thing. However, you might want to ask yourself if the gear treadmill is really what you want. I enjoy getting new looks of gear more than getting something with +2 stats that doesn't match or look appreciably better. I like some achievements. Kind of like how wow achievements started out being, not what they have become.

Frankly, I would rather the game want me to do something again for fun, not for gear. I can't tell you how much wow has burnt me because of crappy rng on items that were upgrades that just wouldn't drop, so I had to run the same dungeon/raid over and over and over again and still have it not drop. Or even better, have it finally drop in a pug, just to have it ninjaed. Yeah, not going to miss that at all.

[Deyadissa]

No reward? You get epic armor art when everyone else cannot... that's always been the best reward in my opinion.

Guild Wars is a PVP focused game.

PVe is a story focused game.


If you didn't like the original guild wars, you won't like guild wars 2 pretty much.


(Yes Guild Wars 2 is instanced, the only difference is people share maps.)

[tilatequila]

BTW, I don't do PvP... EVER.

Oh man you have missed out. I do both pve and pvp, both are good but very different, but versing an actual person as to a computer is just so much more awesome when you kill them.

[Wrathonia]

No reward? You get epic armor art when everyone else cannot... that's always been the best reward in my opinion.

Guild Wars is a PVP focused game.

PVe is a story focused game.


If you didn't like the original guild wars, you won't like guild wars 2 pretty much.


(Yes Guild Wars 2 is instanced, the only difference is people share maps.)

Could you possibly spout more misinformation please? I don't think you have lied enough.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...se-assumptions

[Exerionx]

Wait for the GW2 open beta to make a judgement perhaps? Well, it might help anyways ^^

---------- Post added 2012-01-02 at 02:32 AM ----------

No reward? You get epic armor art when everyone else cannot... that's always been the best reward in my opinion.

Guild Wars is a PVP focused game.

PVe is a story focused game.

If you didn't like the original guild wars, you won't like guild wars 2 pretty much.


(Yes Guild Wars 2 is instanced, the only difference is people share maps.)

Also, I can't tell if you're ACTUALLY serious or not.

[Wynnyelle]

Do you enjoy raiding for the sake of it or because you get gear out of it? I ask because when I played WoW still, I thought that I enjoyed raiding, but really, if there was no way for me to get gear out of the particular raid or boss, then I tried to find a way out of it and get somebody else to take my spot. It was legitimately fun the first few times, but after that it became a scripted fight that I could do blindfolded. Not to mention that WoW's gameplay is not all that stimulating to me. I have always preferred action-based combat.

The thing about Guild Wars 2 that will keep me playing, is that the content sounds like it will just be fun to play, and gear will kind of be a secondary aspect of it. You have a fun experience and you get cool-looking gear out of it? Sounds good to me. It doesn't really bother me if you don't progress in the tier-like way that you do in WoW, because if you think about it, all that it comes down to is that your numbers get larger. When you really think about it, is that really what you want to play for? Is that your overall goal in a game? If so, that might be your problem. When I read this article here: http://www.g4tv.com/games/pc/45299/g...ian-catacombs/ I got really excited. Combined with the the more action-based combat, it sounded really fun to me. And then when I read that they had only done the story mode, and couldn't even finish the explorable mode, I got even more excited. People assume that since the dungeons are 5-man, they won't be challenging because in WoW the 5-mans are the easy instances and the raids are the hard ones, but that's not how it works in every game. You should at least give it a chance, I think. Because even if you do get bored or feel like you run out of things to do, you can always just stop and wait until they release more content that you think will be worth your while. And you will have only lost the money that you spent on the box, but even then, you should at least get your money's worth for that with all of the content the game will have at launch. Just my two cents.

[Old]

I'm quite interested in this game but I also have some concerns and I'd like to share them with more informed people.

I've been playing wow from EU release and never really stopped. I've been through all types of progression as well as all expansions. I've seen the changes and along the years I've tried pretty much all the MMOs. I've passed through the newbie period, the casual one, the top pvp ladder, progressing guilds and now the top pve ladder.

Most of my concerns come with what you commonly call progression. I know we don't have a good hindsight as what the game will really be on release but from what I've read I'm kinda worried. Based from my experiences in wow and other MMOs, I believe I can have an objective opinion as I'm not usually going in extremes. I really dislike Wow nowadays but I can see the good and the crap in it.

Where exactly does progression lie in GW2?

Progression is for me what defines a MMO. It can be in any aspect of the game such as PVE, PVP, storytelling, etc..You also have multiple kinds of progression in each aspect of the game. For example in PVE you can progress through a dungeon/raid. You progress on a boss, getting each time closer to a kill. You progress through the instance, getting closer to the endboss. And you progress with your gear, getting more powerful as you gear up. Gear might be a mean to reach your actual goal, it's nontheless a progression based system.

I'm not assuming that the ways you get gear in wow is any good. I'm not assuming that the gear range to pick from is interesting either. As of today, you really have no choice in the gear you can actually get. It's pretty straightforward and you barely have choice between 2 pieces of gear for a slot.

But when I read how gear actually impacts your game in GW2, I'm getting worried. As far as I understood, only cosmetic matters in endgame. You will have a different skin depending on where you get your gear from: basically craft, pve, pvp; as well as how advanced you are. I'm by no means focused on getting gear, you really can't be when you are in top guilds. But reward and progression is something motivating and satisfactory, and helps you progressing. The way your character is getting stronger, allowing you to do more things, better things, harder things, is, on top of your skill, part of the sense of achievement.

Normalization on both level and gear clearly removes 2 aspects of the game progression and will left you with a "jump in" game to have quick fun. If nothing rewards commitment and progression besides the look of your gear, this game will never gather a stronger enough community to keep development in high standards.

From what I can understand, progression will be somewhat separated from the gaming experience. There will be no incentive for me to do some crafting if I like the pvp armor look better. But if I prefer the crafting look, I'm forced to do some. Because afterall it's the only progression you can focus on. When I go in dungeon, it's gonna be for the sake of it. After 10 times, fun drops, if there is nothing left, why would I go? I somehow enjoy doing things that don't provide fun in the aim of a "bigger" purpose that is actually part of having fun. Achieving things doesn't necessarily mean "having fun" but it can be that sense of dedication that keeps you in a the game.

I like "jump in" games a lot and you can find this system in Lol or Bloodline Champions, in which you have a very quick progression pattern, and then simply nothing but skill involved. It is quite good and the only 2 things keeping you in the game are: fun and/or rankings. In wow you have pretty much the same things, but with gear progression in the equation, making it a lot more complex to design, especially when it comes to balance and fine tuning. And in a MMO, commitment and dedication should reward you, not at much as skill maybe, but still on a significant level.

Again let me point out that I'm definitely not a wow fan but it is currently the only decent MMO coupling deep gameplay and perfect character responsiveness with all MMO aspects. Having to work hard for your gear, in order to progress through the game, was back in the days a great source of enjoyment. I'm not saying that the ways to achieve progression were greatly designed but at least there were ways. But more than that, thinking your gearing pattern through, your stats choice, etc.. should have an impact when you actually play.

All in all, this doesn't really affects pvp. My only concern here is that I don't really like being raped by 3 people just because the game normalize their gear and level. I like my progression and commitment to actually mean something when I play. If I'm skilled enough, my gear and level should be part (part not the only factor) of my ability to 1v2, 1v3, etc...

Finally my point is that when you actually play the game, doing some pvp or running dungeon, it shouldn't only be a fun/friendly/social experience but include a progression part, even almost insignificant and negligible.

It's not a bad concept, to have no gearing progression whatsoever. Maybe I'm wrong and I misunderstood. But if not, it's all gonna depend on how deep the concept is, how far you can go and how much dedication and commitment you actually need to reach the end of the pattern.

[Derpdederp]

Honestly, its a pvp game.

[Mif]

Honestly, its a pvp game.

No it isn't.
Just because your mind can't fathom PVE content consisting of anything other than banging your head against a gear treadmill it doesn't mean that there isn't PVE content.

[Oragan]

GW2 end game is PvP focused, hence why you can't get better gear then other players, you can only look different colour wise but all max level gear is the same and everyone can get it. Its a PvP game were skill/luck is what counts not gear. If your not into PvP then its prob not the game for you, that said it still has awsome leveling and open world bosses, just its different from WoW and other mmo copies.

[Armond]

Honestly, its a pvp game.

Given the name, not sure if troll.

But just in case: GW2 is not GW proph/factions (pre-urgoz/deep, at least).

[Mif]

If I'm skilled enough, my gear and level should be part (part not the only factor) of my ability to 1v2, 1v3, etc...

That's like saying that because Ato Boldon is the best sprinter in the world he's earned the right to do his 100 yd sprint in a corvette from now on. If you have skill, prove it, don't hide behind gear.

Finally my point is that when you actually play the game, doing some pvp or running dungeon, it shouldn't only be a fun/friendly/social experience but include a progression part, even almost insignificant and negligible.

There is a small level of gear vertical progression through upgrade slots, but it won't be like being a tier above others.