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  1. #41
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    If you cant handle the facts oh well, move, go on this game is not for you.
    Hello guys, I'm just here to quote this for truth. End of discussion

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  2. #42
    Field Marshal Old's Avatar
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    I'm glad you linked me this, I read it all. First of it's from 5 years ago, things change. But more than that it actually just fit in what I said. If again, you completely misunderstood my point and thought "you need to copy wow", well you should really consider stopping answering.
    This means that it is not enough to make a great game – instead you must make a game that is so overwhelmingly superior that it can actively break apart an established community and bring that community to your game. In today's market, that is a tall order.

    Regardless of the business model, the primary factor that determines whether an MMO lives or dies is the size of its active player base.
    The point is to know and acknowledge the existence of the problem, not copy the solution. I could quote so much of that article to prove my point, but it would be too long. Making something different doesn't mean you don't satisfy the same needs and aspirations. You can have multiple solutions for one problem. This is exactly what the dev said in the article. You have to be innovative, but you can't be too innovative.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    How is it not true? Your character is inseparable from your gear, otherwise what is the point of even wearing gear. I get the idea of mastering a profession, but with 6(?) active skills this seems relatively straightforward, wouldn't you agree? Besides, guides for rotations and such will obviously start appearing after a while. I spend time learning my classes in WoW as well, but I did so while performing tasks that felt meaningful to my character, i.e. improving gear, unlocking story, earning titles and achivements or simply ePeen. If anything, I would say appearance alone gives you a false sense of accomplishment--how could they not, they are only pixels--while watching your character gradually improve to become better in relation to the game world and the player community around you really reflects your hard work.
    1. i would familiarize myself with the GW2 Profession skill list as the combat system is actually very deep just taking the many skills available to each profession (classes in traditional MMOs like WoW), then you add in things like dodging or counter movement and it gets even more complicated and then it gets even more interesting when you add in cross-profession-combos.
    2. Since you have limited skills you will always have to adjust your use of skills to the given situation, therefore "rotations" as they exist in traditional MMOs won't apply in GW2.
    3. your character has many choices for progression in GW2 like improving your gear, unlocking story, earning titles and achievements, or simply ePeen but what you need to understand is that the progression is not vertical, but is instead horizontal/lateral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    No, I worry that GW2 won't hand me gear at all. Obviously it will, but like you say all gear appear to be the same, looks apart. Imagine WoW with only transmogrification and no stats, what a disaster.
    GW2 is a different game from WoW and uses a different set of mechanics so saying what does not work in one will work in the other is insincere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Boss fights I'll stay undecided on until it's been thoroughly put to the test after release. It could be an awesome innovation which allows for both group work and a sense of individual accomplishment, or it could end up the lamest thing in the world where, as long as a few people are assigned to click this and that, everyone else can just zerg without thought or skill.
    due to the DE scaling based on the number of people participating in various ways like and increase in the number of adds, objectives, boss health, unlocking of boss skills, etc it becomes really hard to "just zerg" at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascotte View Post
    It all boils down to: Progressing your character vs just improving the looks on your character without gaining strength.
    is still progression, it is just not vertical, it is horizontal!
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

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  4. #44
    I spend as much time trying to get achievements, toys and costumes in other MMOs as I do gear. Gear is kind of a matter of course in WoW/EQ/Rift/TOR... I am gonna get gear anyway by playing the game. But that cool mount, cute pet or awesome looking dress... yea, that sucks up about as much time and entertainment as raiding.

    Honestly don't see a difference in grinding 100 rifts to buy a holiday dress, running a dungeon for conqueror achievements or collecting rare pets in other games and the means GW1 or 2 does them.

    Seems sometimes like people don't want to enjoy their games. O.o

    You have to be innovative, but you can't be too innovative.
    Also this is blowing my mind...
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-01-01 at 10:56 PM.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old View Post
    Snip
    @Profitable: I'm pretty sure no publisher would take the risk of funding development for over 5 years without being at least guaranteed that they won't make a loss. The original GW was profitable enough to make GW2 happen, and they're taking a similar approach towards long-term moneymaking.

    @Casuals: I feel you're underestimating casuals. They aren't carried by gear, by definition. Casual doesn't mean a bad player, just someone with lower time commitment. The dungeons have two modes, one easy, one harder. And if they handle character skill progression right (similar to a single-player game) most people should at least be good enough to do the easier explorable mode dungeons.
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  6. #46
    And you also have the great wave of those people already convinced that a game nowhere close to release is already so much better than anything else. Seeing your signature, I believe you are among them zito. Unfortunately you also have the opposite, people condemning the game at first sight.
    Since you are just screaming: "OMG zito argue with me so I can throw out random numbers" I am not going to take anything you post as serious about the actual game. My sig has nothing to do with how I feel about the game, If you don't know who zexion is google it. Just because I RP does not mean im one sided.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-01-01 at 11:26 PM.
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  7. #47
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    OP: There are tonnes of threads about this that have been answered in every way shape an form, each regarding raids, DE's, Titles and Rewards.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...GW2-have-raids
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/988329-GW2-raids
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-focus-in-GW2
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...vE-Progression
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...to-be-rewarded

    Not to mention all those posts lost in the GW2 megathread.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Hello guys, I'm just here to quote this for truth. End of discussion
    Heaven forbid that someone wants to design and mmo and be successful but different from traditional mmo's.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

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  9. #49
    I think I know what the endgame will be like now, which is what I sought in the first place. Thanks for that input.

    The rest, as I believe this thread has proven, is subjective.
    Some of us appear to be in favour of the old school RPG with stat points and a deep sense of character progression, while others appear to not mind so much about the progression through the game, but rather just want to enjoy a game game with a fantasy setting, which I could also understand. I hope I don't do you wrong with that summary of our opinions.

    I'll definitely purchase GW2 and level a character to see what it's like, but then I'll probably turn to a more classic MMO if it becomes too easy.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  10. #50
    I didn't have a chance to read the whole thread so i don't know if anyone else mentioned this...There will be daily achievements, monthly achievements, and long-term achievements (ones that probably take a little over a month, but may vary). I'm sure those will probably have rewards attached to them especially the longer ones. I believe that was recently announced. So even if you did ALL the DEs and instances you'd have all of those to do as well. GW2 is going to be a pretty massive world I can't see too many people being bored it'll be awhile before everyone eats up all the content. Even if you were a hardcore player and got it all done there is still WvWvW (3 way server pvp) to play around in. I'm not worried about eating up the conent too fast. I'm actually more worried about not being able to complete all I want to see.

    As for character progression your story will be a huge focus in that and your home world will change depending on the choices you make. If you aren't into story progression you may not like that aspect as much, but it's a really nice feature and I'm sure they'll come out with more content to add to your story so you have that to work through too.
    Last edited by Varah; 2012-01-02 at 12:16 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    I'll definitely purchase GW2 and level a character to see what it's like, but then I'll probably turn to a more classic MMO if it becomes too easy.
    It is worth noting a few things here: GW2 will not have a subscription, the "risk" trying it is no greater than say one buying Skyrim or similar RPG for $60.

    Skyrim: $60 and X hours of gameplay. Maybe you'll play it for a year, 2 years or just a week.
    Cost to you: $60

    Guild Wars 2: $60 and X hours of gameplay. Maybe you'll play it for a year, 2 years or just a week.
    Cost to you: $60

    Arena.net don't seek to create a Warcraft-like MMO in style or method of business. So the only thing they are banking on is you enjoy the game. For however long you wish and in whatever manner you wish.

    Although not a single player game, approaching the product with the mentality one does a Skyrim or Mass Effect is pretty helpful, IMO.

  12. #52
    The thing that will change at lvl 80 is that you will for example that you have an advantage over other player in WvWvW because you have aquired more abilities, some better gear etc. etc. than the lower levels have that have been sidekicked up to lvl 80. Other than that, no nothing will change. As almost everyone else is saying: the hole game is endgame.

  13. #53
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    The rest, as I believe this thread has proven, is subjective.
    Some of us appear to be in favour of the old school RPG with stat points and a deep sense of character progression, while others appear to not mind so much about the progression through the game, but rather just want to enjoy a game game with a fantasy setting, which I could also understand. I hope I don't do you wrong with that summary of our opinions.
    This is slightly offtopic here, but still sort of valid.
    I've been playing old fashioned Pen and Paper roleplaying games for a bit over ten years now. And there is a big destinction over character progression and gear progression. The gaming systems I've used with the best character progression systems are those where the character isn't carried by gear that more than doubles that characters power.
    The "truest" character progression that GW2 will have is the Personal Story. Which I personally hope never will have a "true" end.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Some of us appear to be in favour of the old school RPG with stat points and a deep sense of character progression, while others appear to not mind so much about the progression through the game, but rather just want to enjoy a game game with a fantasy setting, which I could also understand. I hope I don't do you wrong with that summary of our opinions.
    wtf? since when were stat increases a deep sense of character progression? /sigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    I'll definitely purchase GW2 and level a character to see what it's like, but then I'll probably turn to a more classic MMO if it becomes too easy.
    haha, you do realize that if you take a classic MMO and GW2 and start them both out with the same difficulty the classic MMO will ALWAYS become easier, right?

    i can see that you have alot of preconceived notions about what GW2 actually has to offer, but i recommend looking at the Wiki that i linked and reading the ArenaNet Dev Blog there is a lot of great info there and they explain it alot better than we all can. just a suggestion though remember that WoW did not invent the MMO genre and you should be fine.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  15. #55
    I don't understand why ppl need numbers on an item, or be tricked into playing the same dungeon over and over again, the skinner box is used to get players to play the game longer. P2P mmo's use this to get get ppl to think their getting there moneys worth (some do, some don't), a gear treadmill also brings in problems like:
    1.) trivializing the content, zito (post # 21) gave and edgecrusherO0 (#35) clarified an example of it earlier that their are some dungeons ore levels that just become classic's everyone should experience or people really want to experience (hell I still play City Escape on Sonic adventure 2 every once in a while, love the song :P)
    2.) numbers getting to big (wow has already stated they are having problems with the numbers getting to big and asking the community for input)
    3.) player burnout will still happen
    4.) this one is GW2 specific: they have no mouthy fees so theirs no direct profit for making you play longer, GW2 will work on a micro-transaction system/ box sales which they have proven very plausible other wise they would not be making GW2 in the first place.

    Being someone who raided (during wrath) because I want to experience the bosses (I can never find a run on YouTube without music in the background muting the dialog the boss says :/), used to pass up on most loot to other guildies and gear up on the handouts. So personally I can say I'll be playing GW2 for a long while trying to see if I missed something in some area. :P

    in closing I respect the opinion of some ppl needing carrot's and realized Rainbow Dash of MLP:FiM fame already came up with a solution right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PvDP...eature=related

    That's right the cooler system! all arena net has to do is add a cool rating to every item and in later expansion each item adds to your cooler stat which of course... makes you cooler :P Once a player gets over 9000 cool stat Cooler flys to Tyria starting an Dynamic event to avenge his brother Frieza. I'd say it's a win-win

    P.S. here's some links on the skinner box http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip2a...mmqA8lha8Ho1ZF (contains lots of swearing but has some good points imo)
    P.S.S happy new Year :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    Once you realise that carrots are pointless, you'll realise that you've already been wasting your time.

    Speaking of carrots.
    LOL love this picture where did you find it?
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2012-01-02 at 01:16 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    WoW:
    "Hey guys, remember when we were 80 and ulduar was super awesome hard and fun"
    "Yea!"
    "Let's go back and do it again, it was fun"
    .....
    Boss dies in 30 seconds thanks to gear inflation.
    Congratz, wasted content, wasted money. Sure it was effective when it was released, but now it just kinda taking up space unless you want gear or achievements but it is significantly easy to get now.

    GW2:
    "Hey guys remember that dragon we killed in X zone 2 months ago"
    "Yea!"
    "Dude it was so hard took forever to kill, lets kill it again!"
    "Yea!"
    Thanks to not having gear inflation, everything is the same as it was 2 months ago and it is still as hard as ever.
    You play this game for fun, not to be some overpowered zerged person thanks to gear. You want gear inflation? Then don't play GW2
    this post assumes that GW2 expansions won't raise the level cap and/or put in better endgame gear, which I think is kinda too soon to tell
    edit oh yeah forgot about the scaling part
    how does that work on gear anyway? does it simply say "well at this part you should have a weapon from x-y dmg and armor with x-y stats"?
    Last edited by Enosh; 2012-01-02 at 01:11 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    how does that work on gear anyway? does it simply say "well at this part you should have a weapon from x-y dmg and armor with x-y stats"?
    they probably put a cap on each dungeon/area then scale the items to fit the cap for each dungeon/area I would assume
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2012-01-02 at 01:20 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    wtf? since when were stat increases a deep sense of character progression? /sigh
    Look at things in context, Mr. The ludic character progression in a game (of which we are talking here) is not the same as traditional character progression (narrative, that is).
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    The difference is this game is going to be FUN to play.

    Just a few things that will keep me playing:

    *Combat will be interactive and engaging. You wont be standing in one spot pressing 2 buttons while watching TV.

    *This game looks like it's going to be difficult. You're going to have to talk to people and make friends to succeed. That along will pull you in and make you want to play.

    *The customization of your characters both physically and play style-wise just astounds and excites me. I'm going to spend months creating each one of my alts with a unique play style, story and looks from anyone else.

    *Personal stories that effect you. NPCs react to you depending on how you plan to play your character. Guild wars 2 actually lets you personalize everything about your character so you feel a connection to them instantly.

    And if there must be rewards, well there are. We've got daily, weekly, and monthly achievements with rewards of their own. So what if something is a side-grade? It will LOOK awesome. And who doesn't want to look freaking sweet?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    this post assumes that GW2 expansions won't raise the level cap and/or put in better endgame gear, which I think is kinda too soon to tell
    edit oh yeah forgot about the scaling part
    how does that work on gear anyway? does it simply say "well at this part you should have a weapon from x-y dmg and armor with x-y stats"?
    GW1 the cap was 20 and stayed that way even after expansions. I highly doubt they'll raise the cap at all. Ditto to the gear progression.

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