Guild raiding dilemma.

[Deja Thoris]

Theres no right or wrong answer here. You know the people best so you judge. If the group of IRL friends doesn't gel well with the guild group then drop them and pug people in. Group harmony is important in the long run. I'd rather down fewer bosses with people I like than have great success with a bunch of douches who are good players (though your priorities may vary too)


If you take anything to heart, take this: You WILL NOT please everybody. Do not try too hard to and do not beat yourself up when people /w afterwards with 50 things you should have done better.

[Deleted]

I've been in the situation you're in where I had to lead raids with an essentially AFK GM, I've also led raids with an incompetent GM and a whole lot of other situations. The one thing I learned after all that is that if there is this much trouble and drama it's not worth it. It just isn't worth your sanity, a game should not feel like a job and it shouldn't be an uphill battle.

My advice? Screw it, either leave and find a place where you can raid and enjoy yourself or try to join up with those 7 peeps and be their 8th or something like that. But stop trying to carry an uncooperative guild on your back. That's just my $0.02 but it's likely shaded with a lot of cynicism from years of putting up with stuff like this. If you DO try to make things work just remember you will never please everyone, so pick your battles and don't let shit get to you.

[morphling8]

Not much you can do while keeping those 7 players happy. You're better off just recruiting. Even if you sat from the other part of your roster it sounds like those 7 would run the show, and probably cause issues later down the line if 1-2 of them are just plain not pulling their weight.

[Brett Skullcrack]

Impossible to say without knowing your guild. If it was mine, I'd simply demote them to social (which is what they are if they don't want to raid with the main raid) and let them do whatever they want -- the sneaky way to do this is to have a "reorganization" where you shuffle all the ranks around and create a new "raider" rank or whatever whose requirement is to attend the "main" raid every week. Depending on your guild that can cause some major drama though.

The best thing as always is to just talk to them and explain what you're trying to do, what are the problems you're facing and to understand what they want. Realistically sitouts happen and they can't expect to get special treatment just because they're IRL friends. If they want to do their own thing they obviously can, but then they're not really part of the guild.

[Stevoman]

Ah, the classic "casual guild wants to start raiding" dilemma.

Guild loyalty in these kinds of guilds is nonexistent. While some people in the guild (like you) want to form a raid group, the majority of people in the guild (like the RL friends) already have raiding accommodations made that they are not going to just break. If you try to tell them "break your group for the greater good," they are just going to leave.

It's just different things people want from a casual guild. The RL group is probably in the guild to stay in touch with their in-game friends. They don't want to raid with the casual guild, likely because the majority of the player base in that guild is not up to their level of play.

The only winning move here is to not play. It is impossible to convert from a Friends and Family Guild to a Raiding Guild without at least half the members being hurt and/or leaving. Sorry, I've tried several times to do it, and it just can't be done.

My best advice is to leave now, while you can leave on good terms, and join a true raiding guild.

[Peyj]

If you do decide to try and run both groups, filling empty spots with PuGs, keep your eye out for potential recruits. I've always thought that was a pretty good way to recruit people, because you can both see how the other performs/gels with the group.

[Twoflower]

Is it a huge guild or are those 7 friends like half of your potential raiders ? Are they the best players you have in your guild ?

radical aproach : Groups within guilds are not a good idea, generaly speaking. I'd try to talk em out of it. If not, they can make their own 7-man guild.

clever aproach : what Peyj said WIll include tons of work though, and people will leave, there will be drama, and are you realy up to all that ?

fastest way to comfortable raiding : join another guild that raids at your level.

[Peyj]

clever aproach : what Peyj said WIll include tons of work though, and people will leave, there will be drama, and are you realy up to all that ?

Yeah, that approach will take a lot of work and a lot of your effort will, frustratingly, end in people gquitting as it always does. Sadly, though, there's really no way to avoid that kind of drama if you need to run a recruitment drive. The path to a happy, populated guild never did run smooth..

[Deleted]

Thanks everybody for the well thought-out replies. I've also talked to some of the guildies that I've raided and PvPed with for only a week, and after thinking through everybody's input it seems that there's isn't an obvious or possibly even a "right" solution for the group.

However, I learned that the 7 IRL friends are considering purchasing a Lvl 25 guild which effectively means they understand the situation. But, they've also been really good about flying under the radar as to try to not create any animosity... I think they're trying to do what's best.

Maybe non-ironically, I've also considered "starting" my own guild of Hard mode raiders as well as RBG crew. But, that's a lot of work to do it RIGHT...

So... Tuesday will be interesting. STAY TUNED LAWL.

Would not recommend starting your own guild unless you already have 12-13 people willing to join in and raid from the start. You are extremely unlikely to do anything more than a few normal modes and will likely have too much stress and headache to put up with. It's so much easier to just join a 7/8 or 8/8 normal guild that's just starting heroics somewhere and make it a home, I'm sure there are plenty on each server.

[Stuffs]

Yes, but I'm a Rogue... in patch 4.3. I'm good, but... yeah. Shitty timing for all this, mang.

Are you complaining about the orange? Because we're in a good place as it is, even without it.
If it really is a matter for you, join a 25M guild and prove you're worth getting the second. A 25M guild will generally finish their second dagger as a 10M finishes their first.

[Deleted]

There are multiple options, but only the Guild Leader can decide which one to take.

My recommendation:
- create a "Raider" rank with required attendance and loot priority.
- assign a recruitment officer to help you find new people.
- let the real life friends run their own raidgroup, you just focus on yours.

But only if the Guild Leader can take his responsibility. If you have to do his job in addition to yours, get out now.

[Deleted]

Yeah that's a problem. But, I talked with the GL and he admitted to being abnormally busy the past couple weeks and looks like he's signed up to Tank tonight and he's put in some work to gear up so maybe this will work out nicely.

Maybe, but that's not the issue.

The GL in a raidguild has to be able and willing to take decisions and make things happen.
- Short on players? The GL has to make sure someone recruits.
- Attendance problems? The GL has to set attendance standards and back their enforcement.
etc.

If you as RL have to do no only your own job, but also push him to do his, you're basically pulling triple duty: your own, thinking for him, and pushing him to actually do it. Some GLs are very nice guys, but just don't have what it takes to run a good raidguild. If he's one of those, you'd best get out.

ETA: Only matters if you're serious about raiding, of course.

[Deleted]

NYeah that's a problem. But, I talked with the GL and he admitted to being abnormally busy the past couple weeks and looks like he's signed up to Tank tonight and he's put in some work to gear up so maybe this will work out nicely.

There's still a problem to take care of here, a GL should not just sign up to tank and have done with that. When everything goes smooth and well the GL reeps the rewards and does nothing special, but when shit is bad its on him to put in 5x more time into the game and deal with everyone and everything until shit settles down. If he is unwilling or unable to do that then he needs to give you full authority to do whatever you please with the raiding portion of the guild up to and including demote/promote/gkick/ginvite and deciding who raids and what loot system you use etc. Essentially if he can't lead then he has to at least not handicap the people who are doing it. But 95% of the time in this situation the GL will give you some power but refuse to hand over the reigns completely and will continue to undermine you whenever you do something he disagrees with.

Either way it sounds like there aren't a lot of people in the guild that you even know so well, I still maintain that the best option would be to do find a 25m guild somewhere else and join them. If you do well they are likely to give you 2nd or 3rd legendary which will come at around the same time that THIS guild will get the 1st. However that's for you to decide, it's a hard decision to make and I just hope you don't get stuck in the trap of forlorn hope for a guild that will always bring headaches.