Gurtalakh and 2h frost

[Deleted]

so i keep switching between frost and unholy since i cant find which one i want to stick with (we already have a frost dw in our raid so unholy would actually be the best bet for those few fights where im dpsing instead of tanking, but i digress)

has anyone experienced a buttload more procs with frost than with unholy? out of 8minutes testing on dummies tentacles were up for 3.30minutes, and also had a lot of multiple procs. they obviously hit for a bit less than they do in unholy because of the mastery, but overall they did a lot more damage

[Soisoisoi]

I got my LFR Gurthalak today and switched from DW Frost (with 2x LFR Souldrinker) to Unholy to test it. I got about 6 proccs within about 10seconds at one point. 3 up at the same time, 2 up right after the others fell. Always at least two up at the same time during those few seconds.

Meaning, it seems it CAN proc quite a lot as Unholy, but I haven't tested it that much, and haven't tested Frost at all. Unfortunately I didn't log that, but I did log LFR Morchok just to see how well it went;

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0btle...e/?s=307&e=585
Pathogenesis is me, bear in mind I haven't played Unholy in a very long time.


Also, does anyone know the difference in DPS between 2H Frost, DW Frost and Unholy with my weapons, as in which 'should' be the best? (2x LFR Souldrinker and LFR Gurth)

[Deleted]

ilevel 386 pulling 45k-50k on 10 man madness 2h frost.


Its ok.


Raid Finder version.

[Hunty]

I'd assume that frost's massive haste will increase the amount of procs you get, but its probably still not really viable.

[killabee]

has anyone experienced a buttload more procs with frost than with unholy? out of 8minutes testing on dummies tentacles were up for 3.30minutes, and also had a lot of multiple procs. they obviously hit for a bit less than they do in unholy because of the mastery, but overall they did a lot more damage

Assuming you itemize properly both specs, the number of procs you experience will be somewhat larger as 2H Frost than Unholy. The reason is that 2H Frost is gcd capped even at relatively low Haste levels, while Unholy is not gcd capped even in BiS. The other reason is as Unholy you don't cap Exp, resulting in dodged attacks -> less procs. In addition, Frost has a higher ration of attacks capable of procing Gurth than Unholy since Death Coil, D&D etc. don't don't proc it.

[chisuji]

ilevel 386 pulling 45k-50k on 10 man madness 2h frost.
Raid Finder version.

For LFR Madness with all the Aspect buffs, that is really about average for anyone dps that keeps their uptime high and uses their cooldowns on either bloods for aoe burn, or during cataclysm. So yeah...it is certainly ok. But not great. DW with even the 5man stuff will perform better given the same timings.

[Dredan]

From what ive seen people posting (mind you only half paying attention) the thing with it being unholy is you use mastery priority because it increases the flay dmg from the adds. Also deathcoil wont proc it so that will make it proc more from frost but id think the increase dmg from mastery would make it still better to be unholy but again this is just from random posts ive seen around.

[chisuji]

Ok. I will admit it. I.screwed around with a masterfrost 2h spec, utilizing a shifting two stage priority between the typical OB spam at high resources and then moving to hb spam masterfrost during low resource periods to avoid action locking with such low haste... And it wrecked my dw specs so far. I am 2p set so far with voice deep. But I only account it to my current itemization. Once I shed this excess crit in favor of haste, I have no doubt DW will take over again. But in the mean time, tentacle lasers!

[Deleted]

The reason is proccs more for frost then unholy is because Unholy only really has 2 abilites that can cause a procc, FS + SS since they are classed as "Special abilities". Frost however has a lot more abilities that cause the procc, this is why the sword is better for warriors + Paladins.

[Sentientsix]

"Ok. I will admit it. I.screwed around with a masterfrost 2h spec"

You can get razorice rune as 2h...? Heh. Heh.

Anyways, the sword is about the same for everyone aside from ret (being as they have the most attacks per minute, w/e)

[chisuji]

"Ok. I will admit it. I.screwed around with a masterfrost 2h spec"

You can get razorice rune as 2h...? Heh. Heh.

Cute. But as I said, masterfrost forging and spec, but not the rotation. I put in far more OBs than what EJ talks about, so the missing Razorice isn't so huge. Besides, its not like I said I think it will outdo DW. Just right now with my current gear, it simply does.

[fwc577]

Cute. But as I said, masterfrost forging and spec, but not the rotation. I put in far more OBs than what EJ talks about, so the missing Razorice isn't so huge. Besides, its not like I said I think it will outdo DW. Just right now with my current gear, it simply does.

The difference between 2h and 1h frost is going to be roughly 2k with BiS gear. Fight mechanics and mistakes are going to probably have a larger impact on the difference between the two specs.

[chisuji]

The difference between 2h and 1h frost is going to be roughly 2k with BiS gear. Fight mechanics and mistakes are going to probably have a larger impact on the difference between the two specs.

Why is everyone just reading what they want to hear so they can comment needlessly about it? I am NOT advocating the use of 2H Frost at all. I'm not even theorycrafting it. I know quite well DW will beat it out. At my current gear (poorly itemized with excess crit), 2H is simply doing better at the moment. That isn't guessing. That is extensive boss running and dummy testing results.

I'm not telling anyone to do it. Just stating a strange occurrence.

[croana]

Keep in mind that the tenticles hit for a LOT harder in unholy than in frost, because the tenticle's damage scale with unholy's mastery. The reason you might be finding that unholy is underperforming for your gear at the moment, I assume, is because you aren't reforged correctly. This weapon requires you to reforge as much crit into mastery as you can, and then you'll find you're getting higher dps numbers. Of course, this also assumes you aren't just auto attacking the dummy and seeing what happens. A big portion of unholy's damage continues to be from your (empowered!) pet.

Pretty much, this weapon is tailor-made for unholy. Your recorded lower dps probably has more to do with poorly reforged gear and bad playstyle.

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that the tenticles hit for a LOT harder in unholy than in frost, because the tenticle's damage scale with unholy's mastery. The reason you might be finding that unholy is underperforming for your gear at the moment, I assume, is because you aren't reforged correctly. This weapon requires you to reforge as much crit into mastery as you can, and then you'll find you're getting higher dps numbers. Of course, this also assumes you aren't just auto attacking the dummy and seeing what happens. A big portion of unholy's damage continues to be from your (empowered!) pet.

Pretty much, this weapon is tailor-made for unholy. Your recorded lower dps probably has more to do with poorly reforged gear and bad playstyle.

reforging and rotation were fine for both unholy and frost when i was trying them on dummies. in my first post i wasnt complaining about 2h frost performing worse than unholy (duh), i was just stating that it "seemed" gurtalak procced a lot more for frost than unholy.

even if i did screw up the rotation for unholy (say do a festering strike instead of 2scourge strikes when sitting on 2 death runes), i'd still be performing abilities which cause the weapon to proc. once again my point was the proc rates, not the difference in either my or the tentacles' dps between 2h frost and unholy (which i already covered in the original post, saying that i did know why the tentacles hit for more as unholy - mastery - )

[flashur]

Keep in mind that the tenticles hit for a LOT harder in unholy than in frost, because the tenticle's damage scale with unholy's mastery. The reason you might be finding that unholy is underperforming for your gear at the moment, I assume, is because you aren't reforged correctly. This weapon requires you to reforge as much crit into mastery as you can, and then you'll find you're getting higher dps numbers. Of course, this also assumes you aren't just auto attacking the dummy and seeing what happens. A big portion of unholy's damage continues to be from your (empowered!) pet.

Pretty much, this weapon is tailor-made for unholy. Your recorded lower dps probably has more to do with poorly reforged gear and bad playstyle.

I think you're overestimating the amount of mastery that you can acquire from reforging.

Keep in mind that haste is still the dominant stat, and you'll be needing hit cap too.

I'm also interested in how this weapon performs in 2H frost. I'm also interested as to how the LFR version performs for Unholy. I'm currently running as DW with 403 souldrinker and 397 hand of morchok, and I'm interested as to whether the 390 Gurthalak can beat that setup as unholy.

[Shiino]

i got own by a 2h frost dk

[Svava]

My only two cents to put in here is this:

More haste for frost = more procs

But the tentacle benefits from Unholy's Mastery

Also, I have seen pulls where 16% of an Unholy DK's 41,000 DPS was contributed by "Tentacle of the Old Gods: Mind Flay".

For my peace of mind, I just call it an RNG stick and keep doing what I'd be doing anyway.

[Jurwi]

ilevel 386 pulling 45k-50k on 10 man madness 2h frost.


Its ok.


Raid Finder version.

It's ok yes. With Unholy you could do it well.

[Shiino]

2h frost (mastery) with Gurth is on par with me 2h unholy build with Gurth , mindblown @_@