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  1. #1241
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    point and counter point in 2 sentences.
    you should really quote the rest of that sentence. and he wasn't. he got hit in the head. you know what thats called? a school yard fight. the only danger was his pride. he killed another person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    The evidence for leprechauns is immense - do you know how many socks dissappear on the world scale... This means that the chance of leprechauns exists is the same as them not existing - therefore you cannot deny their existence

  2. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence View Post
    the problem is that the kid was never in any real danger. he was a 14 year old with a knife planning to potentially use it on a 15 year old. he did use it, and now a child is dead.
    What do you mean the kid was never in any real danger? How do you know this?

    The description given certainly shows he was being attacked and restrained how do you know the outcome had he not fought back?

    he got hit in the head. you know what thats called? a school yard fight. the only danger was his pride. he killed another person.
    But he wasn't just hit in the head, that was the first blow.

  3. #1243
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence View Post
    the problem is that the kid was never in any real danger. he was a 14 year old with a knife planning to potentially use it on a 15 year old. he did use it, and now a child is dead.
    In his mind he was in clear danger he tried several times to avoid the situation. The situation came to him and in fear he reacted. Did the bully deserve to die. In my opinion no he didn't. Was the kid in the right. Yes

    It's like poking a small animal and then getting pissed when it attacks you.

    Dogs do this all the time. They are abused, poked and yelled at and when they feel cornered and threaten will attack. No one EVER goes well the dog should have just ran away(which the kid did try to do) no one EVER blames the dog

  4. #1244
    Field Marshal Grassfarmer's Avatar
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    "You don't butt in line! You don't sell drugs! You don't molest little children! You don't profit off the misery of others! The rules were set a long time ago! They don't change!" -Super

  5. #1245
    Quote Originally Posted by brown View Post
    You said he beat him up for no reason. It wasn't some random guy though, they knew each other, so there was likely a reason he was messing with the kid. He still shouldn't have been bullying him, but was just saying there sounds like there was more to it than just this fight.
    Semantics. He (most likely) had no RIGHT to pick on him. Especially not for no reason.

  6. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You're right. The 16 year old boy who tormented a 15 year old boy for years with emotional and physical abuse was rightly slain in self defense. Just like a girl who was being raped would be justified in shanking the hell out of her attacker.
    did you really just compare rape to school yard bullying? that is just shameful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    The evidence for leprechauns is immense - do you know how many socks dissappear on the world scale... This means that the chance of leprechauns exists is the same as them not existing - therefore you cannot deny their existence

  7. #1247
    stop with the horseshit

    the friends NEVER did anything physical to him, they talked shit a few times and got off the bus with 10 others to WATCH THE FIGHT. witnesses said that it was a 1v1 fight the whole time and never looked like anyone else even wanted to be involved, even said both fighters were SCARED and DIDN'T WANT TO FIGHT but they were pressured into it.

    it's illegal to take any type of knife to school.

    12 times. enough said, 12 decisions to put a knife into the body of someone who called you names a few times, hit you with a spit wad and hit you during a fight

    when you stab someone, your intent really means nothing, the situation that started it and the result matter. he killed the guy who hit him once, called him a mean name a few times and was friends with someone who hit him with a spitwad

    he was never vastly outnumbered, they clearly state it was 1v1 and his friends NEVER factored into anything
    So let's say you were confronted by a guy and 10 of his friends. No one around to supervise the fight and make sure you didn't get completely trampled. Let's say you actually gained the upper hand on the other guy. Do you honestly think for a minute that the dude's 10 friends would just sit there and watch? Especially knowing that they want the fight to happen more than you or the other guy?

    There's no reason for you to assume they are going to let you kick the guys ass. There's no reason to assume that they are going to jump in but only kick your ass slightly, while keeping your overall health and well being alive. Unfortunately, stuff like this happens every day, and more often than not, the victim is usually brutalized (sometimes to death) by the entire group of people, no matter how well he did against the one guy.

    When it comes down to it, the situation could have easily ended up with him dead or in the hospital at the hands of the 11 other people.

    Stabbing someone at all is trying to kill them, when you stick a knife in someone else, what do you think is going to happen?

    Kids these days jump straight to either killing themselves or killing someone else, they need some thicker skin.
    This isn't the movies or video games where if you stab someone once they keel over dead. Depending on the size of the weapon used, the location of the stab wound, and the number of stab wounds inflicted, people can survive a stab wound rather easily.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ES-attack.html

    Assuming that someone intends to kill someone else when they stab them is pretty silly. Especially when it's with a 2-3 inch pocket knife. If the kid had pulled out a 12 inch kitchen knife then stabbed the bully in the head, then yeah, I'd agree that he was trying to kill him.

    The other part of it is that 'thick skin' doesn't help you when the people calling you names decide to step it up a notch and provoke an obviously unfair fight.

    If the one boy had met the other boy alone some place and challenged him to a fist fight, that would be one thing. But anyone who's somewhat intelligent would agree that bringing 10 of your friends to a fight is never going to end in a 1v1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  8. #1248
    Coincidentally, I just finished reading "The Hunger Games". We're now one step closer to that future.

  9. #1249
    Quote Originally Posted by Natureza View Post
    OK, looks like couple of things has to be cleared up here:

    First of all, before anyone takes voice in this discussion should read http://media.naplesnews.com/media/st...1230150108.pdf Which is the paper from the final hearing, summarising everything.
    If you read the paragraph "Findings of Fact" you will probably understand why Jorge had knife with him and why Dylan had something - anything, coming his way.

    Now, for those who have never been in a fight, [a fight, not just shoving each other like pansies] you need to realise that once you are in a situation of danger, your natural reaction is to break all boundries and fight for your life. Which is why 11 stabbings mean absolute jack all. In a fight you don't really have a situation of "umph, maybe i shouldnt have stabbed him 11 times, 2 times is just as good". No - you are in danger and your subconciousnes tells you one thing - defend yourself by any means.

    That kid tried to avoid confrontation by exiting at an earlier bus stop, after which he was followed by the bully and his buddies.
    The bully started the fight, the defendant had nowhere to run, so tell me forums - do you really think you are surprised by the outcome?

    Oh and the knife, why he could've had it ? Deterrant.
    In his case I'd argue that he told his friends about the knife to spread the word, so that the bullies get the message loud and clear.

    I will agree with this however:

    The kid should be punished, not by jail, not by anything that would make him seem guilty - so that he knows that a knife is not an answer to all his problems.

    P.S.
    If you wish to troll the topic, go ahead, just please make it at least in intelligent way.
    Awesome, thanks for the court documents. That link should be added to the OP if this topic remains open.

  10. #1250
    Stood in the Fire Spritely's Avatar
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    No matter what you think of the situation, the law there says it was okay. Don't like it? Go off all you want against the law.

    I'm somewhere in the middle on this though. I think he was fully justified in defending himself, but past that I have a hard time justifying the actual killing. That said, he was a small 14 year old kid who had been tormented daily for an extended period. I think it's pretty clear that he fully snapped. No person reacts well when trapped in a situation that will cause you bodily harm. That's pretty much exactly the situation that law protects.

  11. #1251
    Quote Originally Posted by Donax View Post
    In his mind he was in clear danger he tried several times to avoid the situation. The situation came to him and in fear he reacted. Did the bully deserve to die. In my opinion no he didn't. Was the kid in the right. Yes

    It's like poking a small animal and then getting pissed when it attacks you.

    Dogs do this all the time. They are abused, poked and yelled at and when they feel cornered and threaten will attack. No one EVER goes well the dog should have just ran away(which the kid did try to do) no one EVER blames the dog
    in my mind i'm in clear danger, that doesn't absolve me the right to chop someones head off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    The evidence for leprechauns is immense - do you know how many socks dissappear on the world scale... This means that the chance of leprechauns exists is the same as them not existing - therefore you cannot deny their existence

  12. #1252
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    You're out of line
    Laize is spot on. What you were doing is exactly like blaming a rape victim.

    This is about the murder of a 16 year old boy
    No, this is about the circumstances surronding the death of a 16 year old boy. It's not murder and you would know this if you paid attention in the dozens of times that the word murder has been explained to you. But of course facts are inconvenient for hyperboles and strawmans.

  13. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by Suikoden View Post
    It's a pocket knife. It's still a threat. What I'm saying is this kid shows poor judgment and shouldn't have gone out of that courtroom free of charges. That kid's situation has so many problems with it when it came to his judgment. Yes he should defend himself but really to the point he needed a weapon?
    Tomorrow you are walking down the road. A large group of people attack you and you are being punched in the head. Do you think "Well, shit, I don't want to hurt anyone, so I'd better not use my knife".

  14. #1254
    Herald of the Titans Suikoden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comis View Post
    Oh you and your imaginary world where kids don't take knives to school. The kid had the knife to defend himself from someone who threatened to (and then DID) attack him. It's not like he pulled the knife at school to shank some kid in the bathroom.
    In fact as a kid I DID have a carpentry knife at school once.... And got in huge trouble over it even though I had no intention of being violent with it. Who is to say he wouldn't of pulled that out on someone at school if he was being bullied? Zero Tolerance is and always shall be a very shitty policy.

  15. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by Soneia View Post
    I don't even, what?

    How can a person kill somebody with being punished, i mean yes it is a bully, but a bully can't be that bad that he deserves death!
    Without punishment?

    His entire life will be punishment now, he will have to leave his school, his family will have to leave there jobs and move elsewhere, he will always have it on his conscience, any backgrounds checks will show what he has done....his life is pretty much over already, this kid will commit suicide, count on that.

  16. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence View Post
    do i really have to provide a link or should the fact that kids aren't actively getting arrested for beating up other kids be enough for you?
    Yes please provide a link I would love to see it.

    If you look at the florida statutes and constitution you would see there's a clear definition of assault and battery. There's no exemption for kids under 18. There's not exemption when it happens on school property.

    I'd like to know where you found those exemptions or if you're just making things up.

  17. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Also, to be considered murder, there would have to be a human victim. Unless you think that the condition of "human" can be extended to bullies, which is debatable at best.
    "This just in

    16 year old boys wielding Cell Phones and Facebook have breached the premises — use whatever force necessary to remove them, as they are not human
    "

    Seriously, where do you get off saying that?
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  18. #1258
    Fluffy Kitten Dacien's Avatar
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    This thread has become extremely problematic. A lot of flaming, trolling, and infractions. I'm closing the thread. In the future, please post respectfully when you have something to say. Report posts in violation of our rules and move on; don't respond.

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