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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    So you have no problems with the, in actuality, unwarranted nerf to our dps?
    I suppose they believe it was warrented because it puts you in the middle of the pack, which is where all DPS would ideally be, and was being caused by a bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6ev4enko View Post
    It's a huge nerf in our DPS, doing Ultraxion HC atm, its doing 2-3 times less damage overall.
    Isn't there a bug where the tentacle won't target Ultraxion? Or have they fixed that already?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    It still procs off rend though hey double standards.
    Can we honestly stop with the misinformation? This has been disproven quite a few times now, see my butchered link below as I'm not allowed to post links. It can only proc off the initial rend application as it does initial damage, if you're worried about that....... we got other issues.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110342-...9/#post2073404
    Last edited by Simca; 2012-01-05 at 09:25 PM. Reason: fixed link

  3. #43
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    So you have no problems with the, in actuality, unwarranted nerf to our dps?

    As far as RNG goes, it's not the amount we have that's the problem, it's that we proc our hardest hitting ability. During my cds on tuesday, I've had massive differences in dps/damage based on how lucky I get with DP. None of our other dps spike or fluctuate nearly as much as I do.
    Well, Fire Mages have a lot of RNG too with their highest ability (Combustion) - the difference that they're still highest even when they get terrible RNG, but that's a different story.

    And I do understand your point about DP and agree - It procced literally 5-6 times in a row when I had my CDs running yesterday vs a resto shaman. He had been staying near full HP the entire match and then in the span of two stuns (double hammer) with 5 DP procs, his entire face melted off.
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  4. #44
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    I suppose they believe it was warrented because it puts you in the middle of the pack, which is where all DPS would ideally be, and was being caused by a bug.



    Isn't there a bug where the tentacle won't target Ultraxion? Or have they fixed that already?
    Yeah, and ideally I would have mechanics and resources that work together and smoothly. That ain't happening. Fire mages are still wrecking dps charts for casters, and combat and arms are better than all other melee. It was never a bug before, why would it suddenly become one? Just Because you or someone else wants it to?

  5. #45
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    I don't think it was just a random bug fix - I'm pretty sure it was a targeted nerf.

    I imagine the Blizzard train of thought went like:
    • Wow, Rets seem to proc Gurth a lot more often in PvP - it is becoming a balance issue.
    • Let's look into what is causing it!
    • Oh it's that old Seal of Truth bug. We never fixed it before because Ret was already doing poorly (T11) or midtier (T12).
    • Let's take a look at its repercussions in PvE if we nerf it.
    • Well Ret is pretty high up there so the spec should withstand the nerf - they'll still be midtier afterwards.
    • *Nerf/"Fix"*

    That's how they almost always balance things in my experience.
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  6. #46
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Except that "bug" has been in existence since the seal has been. It procced SM and TAJ and it wasn't a bug then. Without that "bug", all the things that proc off melee hits are going to suck for ret at this rate, because we have so few of them. And I can't imagine at all that ret with a sword was so much worse than arms or unholy in pvp since you don't have the uptime to get all the procs you can in raids.

  7. #47
    Ok Blizz I will trade you Gurthalak for fire mage nerfs, deal? I seen updated simcraft a couple of days ago, mages 4-5k more DPS than anyone else. However if ret is up there with a pure DPS class, NEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

    Hybrid tax still in full effect.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    I suppose they believe it was warrented because it puts you in the middle of the pack, which is where all DPS would ideally be, and was being caused by a bug.
    Except it wasn't a bug. How many times do I have to say this? And where all DPS would ideally be? LOL. They're not even touching Arms Warriors, so don't give me that crap. Arms Warriors do solidly better DPS than Retribution even pre-nerf, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Isn't there a bug where the tentacle won't target Ultraxion? Or have they fixed that already?
    If you're actually part of the DPS scene, you'd know how to get around it by now.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    I suppose they believe it was warrented because it puts you in the middle of the pack, which is where all DPS would ideally be, and was being caused by a bug.
    Sure middle of the pack is behind the middle of the pack, Hmm. As posted by someone on retail forums, the median is greater post-nerf than pre-nerf.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Isn't there a bug where the tentacle won't target Ultraxion? Or have they fixed that already?
    Just stand on the first line or ahead and they will spawn, apparently you have extensive knowledge of the game and can comment on such subjects as Gurthalak damage.



    LOL@post above mine, says same thing. Get out of here Abandon troll.
    Last edited by thegoodrogue; 2012-01-05 at 09:56 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    I suppose they believe it was warrented because it puts you in the middle of the pack, which is where all DPS would ideally be, and was being caused by a bug.



    Isn't there a bug where the tentacle won't target Ultraxion? Or have they fixed that already?
    There is a bug yes, but there is a specific spot where all procced tentacles hit the boss.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Except it wasn't a bug. How many times do I have to say this?
    It doesn't really matter how many times you say it, the people who make the game disagree with your opinion.

    And where all DPS would ideally be? LOL. They're not even touching Arms Warriors, so don't give me that crap. Arms Warriors do solidly better DPS than Retribution even pre-nerf, period.
    Erm...you might want to read my post again. Yes, ideally all DPS would be middle of the pack, since that would mean all DPS is about the same, which would mean they are all balanced. Understand now? I didn't say "Paladins should be in the middle and a bunch of DPS should be ahead of you" or anything similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6ev4enko View Post
    There is a bug yes, but there is a specific spot where all procced tentacles hit the boss.
    Thank you, this is far more helpful and civil than some of the other responses.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2012-01-05 at 10:31 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  12. #52
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    It doesn't really matter how many times you say it, the people who make the game disagree with your opinion.
    That's funny, because they didn't disagree with it until a day or two ago, after at least 2 years of being fine with it.

  13. #53
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    normalize the sword to PPM but that would be too hard lets screw ret procing anything over for years to come!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    That's funny, because they didn't disagree with it until a day or two ago, after at least 2 years of being fine with it.
    Or as Simca already pointed out, they knew it was bugged but simply didn't fix it until now since that would involve rebalancing PVE and PVP damage for Paladins. A bug that has been around for a long time is still a bug.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  15. #55
    A bug meaning that blizzard did'nt intend for this to happen. That says it all to be honest.

  16. #56
    I believe they had the same problem with bryntroll when it first came out. It, too, was proccing off seal ticks

  17. #57
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Or as Simca already pointed out, they knew it was bugged but simply didn't fix it until now since that would involve rebalancing PVE and PVP damage for Paladins. A bug that has been around for a long time is still a bug.
    And so now they've screwed us for proccing gurth and possibly every other proc item/enchant we have by their careless "fixing" of a "bug". You don't think they would need to rebalance pve and pvp if they completely killed our ability to proc anything? That's far worse than leaving gurth as it was.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-05 at 10:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bisket View Post
    I believe they had the same problem with bryntroll when it first came out. It, too, was proccing off seal ticks
    Nothing is or was proccing off seal ticks. Censure is not nor ever was the problem.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    It doesn't really matter how many times you say it, the people who make the game disagree with your opinion.
    Even pre-nerf, It's not like Rets were ever #1 or even #3 out of all the specs on any fight in Dragon Soul (except MAYBE on Spine) and even leaving out Fire Mages, only comparing to Arms Warriors, what was the problem with Ret, exactly? It's not like Ret could even beat an Arms Warrior consistently on a fight that wasn't Morchok or Spine (maybe Warmaster as well but Arms is only a little lower) even with the higher proc rate. There wasn't a problem, and then all of a sudden they just decide arbitrarily that this is a bug and it must take priority over the extremely-obvious unbalanced state of Fire Mages? What part of this makes sense? Where's the logic? There's going to be a lot of quitting going on if they think this "bugfix" is supposed to balance the game-state. What a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Erm...you might want to read my post again. Yes, ideally all DPS would be middle of the pack, since that would mean all DPS is about the same, which would mean they are all balanced. Understand now? I didn't say "Paladins should be in the middle and a bunch of DPS should be ahead of you" or anything similar.
    Well they're doing a god-awful job of it. I mean, look at Fury Warriors or the Hunter specs. Ferals are still very competitive in PVP so it's difficult to balance them out, but they're pretty low too.

  19. #59

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    Why does it make you angry? The Blue gave you as honest an answer as he could. Blizzard doesn't have any plan for discriminating against Ret Paladins, it just so happens that this particular issue was a bug and it was easy to fix, and so it was carried out quickly. Yes, other specs are above where they should be at the moment, but balancing them isn't quite as easy (if possible at all, see Hunters vs Spellcasters with Legendaries).

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