[HELP] HC Yor'sahj 10 man feasting on our corpses

[Deleted]

Fellow MMO-Champions,
because of your awesome feedback, we killed him tonight on the third try. This is the first time we ever tried him since we posted this.

Speaking for the entire guild, I would like to express my gratitude to all the helpful tips and comments we have received over the last couple of days.

Thanks to all of you! (Also: see, we don't suck that much)

Logs for the kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4967&e=5532


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Hello there,
We are having troubles with HC: Yor'sahj on 10 man. To give you an idea of our guild, we were 1/7 HC Firelands prenerf, but got the Glory of Firelands Raider two weeks after the nerf. This allowed us to gear for a good amount of weeks, and because of this we could completely faceroll normal mode Dragon Soul the first week. However, since we pretty much only did Firelands HC postnerf, and it was not really a big deal to underperform, we got owned hard after killing HC Morchok within 10 tries.

We have been wiping on HC Yor'sahj for a couple of nights now, and while I feel our general tactic is alright, we usually are on 50% boss health when there is 2:30 left on the enrage timer. We 1 tank 2 heal the fight, with the following composition:
Tanks:
Blood Death Knight
Healers:
Holy Paladin
Holy Paladin
DPS:
Retri Paladin
Retri Paladin (mainspec tank)
Balance Druid
Fire Mage
Survival Hunter
Enhancement Shaman (offspec heal)
Shadow Priest

Leftover members of our raid group (not present for the log):
Fury Warrior
Frost Death Knight
Enhancement Shaman

We have had some tries 3 healing, but obviously we can't even consider that, looking at our DPS. The first couple of tries of the night we left our main retri paladin on the boss at all times, and the last couple of tries we left the enhancement shaman on the boss instead. The rest of the group would run towards the ooze and kill it ASAP. Our ooze priority is as follows:

Purple – Red – Yellow – Black (we have tried to kill Yellow here but the heal explosion would usually kill someone)

Purple – Green – Black – Blue (we have tried to kill Green here but we felt we needed the DPS increase by killing Black)

Green – Red – Blue – Black

Green – Yellow – Black – Red

Blue – Black – Purple – Yellow

Blue – Purple – Green – Yellow

On the first Mana Void that spawns we pop mana cooldowns and take it to 10%. Every next mana void that spawns we kill the old one and take the next one low (sometimes we kill the old mana void sooner because the healers are oom, for example when there is twice Yellow/Black/Red in a row).

We feel that these tactics work, but we can't get even close to beating the enrage timer. Here are the logs for tonight:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=55312

Basically the only time people die is because of the Yellow/Black/Red phase, it seems that whenever we get more than one in a row with 2 healers, someone just dies because we have used our cooldowns on the first phase.

I have been considering ways to increase total DPS, for example putting more range DPS full time on the boss, who can easily switch when the ooze comes close. However in many cases the ooze gets really close to the boss even with all (minus one) DPS on it, so I have been hesitant to do it. We would really appreciate tips on how to increase our DPS, through changes in tactics or personal improvements (you are allowed to bash us).

I will also include a fraps of one of our longer tries, the quality is not perfect and the ventrilo language is in dutch, but it might help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQEZhtGWtkU

I would love you to give us tips to increase our DPS and improve our tactics. We feel as if our raid group is competent enough to do this shit, but I think some members are unaware of the fact that their DPS is insufficient.

Thanks in advance,
Shedi, Officer of Epic Temptations.

[Avaunt]

Have you tried adding more paladins to the group and seeing if that helps?

[Pokty]

we usually are on 50% boss health when there is 2:30 left on the enrage timer. We 1 tank 2 heal the fight, with the following composition:

The boss should be pretty much dead at that point with 7 dps. If you can't beat the enrage with 7 dps, you have problems that are not going to be solved by any kind of forum input.

[Deleted]

Have you tried adding more paladins to the group and seeing if that helps?

We figured if we use 7 Retri Paladins we can all just spam Divine Storm and heal ourselves. However we couldn't find enough Paladins.

On topic though, I would prefer constructive criticism. Also, we are a guild of a single nationality which makes it very hard to recruit, so the setup we currently have is pretty much the best we can get.

[Deleted]

For your hunter:
Hunter below tank on longest try? Only 25k dps? He should be doing atleast 35k. Also why isn't he using Raptor Strike in the healing intensive phases with the glyph (20% reduced damage)

For AoE, he can just stack on the boss and multishot he boss, it will hit all the adds.

For the whole group:

You need 245k DPS in order to beat the fight, so everyone needs to be at roughly 30k which isn't the case right now.

Tactic-wise: The last set of oozes (at 1:20 enrage or so, maybe even less) you ignore and fully burst on the boss. If you feel like you lack healing there, have your balance druid pop his tranq.

If your hunter can't improve, bench him with the enhancement shaman - they are insane on this fight.

[Deleted]

For your hunter:
Hunter below tank on longest try? Only 25k dps?

He died 1 time. After we've ressed him, he died 2 minutes (or something like that) after he got ressed. You can check that on our Worldoflogs.

[Applenazi]

We figured if we use 7 Retri Paladins we can all just spam Divine Storm and heal ourselves. However we couldn't find enough Paladins.

On topic though, I would prefer constructive criticism. Also, we are a guild of a single nationality which makes it very hard to recruit, so the setup we currently have is pretty much the best we can get.

The simple brutal truth is your players are not good enough to kill this boss. You will either have to wait for it to be nurfed considerably, or until you ourgear it considerably, just as your experience in Firelands.

You already know that this is the case, as no raid leader who sees he is several minutes behind the enrage timer would be able to honestly tell himself his team is capable of generating a kill. You have a shadow priest doing 20,000 DPS, you have an enhancement shaman averaging a 67% uptime.

[Deleted]

I apologise for the footage not being up yet. Youtube is acting funky and doesn't render the first upload, so I'm uploading it again.

EDIT: The footage seems fixed.

[Deleted]

The boss should be pretty much dead at that point with 7 dps. If you can't beat the enrage with 7 dps, you have problems that are not going to be solved by any kind of forum input.

I would agree, however we can kill madness with 7 dps just before the 2nd set of tentacles spawns, which is IMO not too bad. This leads me to believe that there is some huge tactical flaw on this fight, or that the DPS doesn't understand their class well enough to DPS correctly under stressful circumstances and non tank-and-spank fights.

The thing is, I can't decide what exactly the problem is because I have no clue either about most of these classes - so I kinda need someone else to point out their huge mistakes, or to tell me which specific players are simply too bad for heroics (even after the tips given here).

Thanks for the reality check though.

[Wrecker]

Purple – Red – Yellow – Black (we have tried to kill Yellow here but the heal explosion would usually kill someone)

Sorry, but you have to kill yellow here - If you leave yellow up on this combination, it means that you have 2 combinations where you get double black adds spawn + massive raid damage. Also, each combination has very subtle differences as to how much damage you need.

Green – Yellow – Black – Red = Heroism/Bloodlust, after this combination is a vital point where you will/could have black adds remaining when moving to the next blob. Have someone marked to stack on while nuking the blob, use potions and take the adds out as fast as possible while still killing the blob.

All other combinations you can have 1 Melee stay behind on the boss the entire time instead of going to the blobs. Possibly 2, this depends purely on your DPS on the blobs.

For any Red blob phase - make sure that the entire raid group is stacked directly underneath the boss. Being in 'melee' range is too far out and is much more damage than required. Stack directly under it.




Tips for the hunter:

AoE off the boss (already mentioned)
Play Survival
Drop Explosive trap under the boss instead of Black Arrow
For AoE, ignore LnL procs unless there are 2 or less targets.
Glyph Kill Shot/Explosive/Serpent Sting (Kill shot for the extra damage at the end, Serpent Sting for the extra AoE damage)
Multi->Cobra->Multi->Cobra->Multi->Cobra = optimal for extended AoE DPS.
The expertise ring he is wearing is terrible too. The valour point ring is BiS and only 1250 points.

Feel free to contact me in-game for any further information you need on this encounter.

[Deleted]

you have an enhancement shaman averaging a 67% uptime.

Our Shaman had an 99.7% uptime (You can see that in Prîxie's link). He was healing several times during that run, did you check overall logs for DS Or did you look at them one by one?

[Deleted]

Somehow my post disappeared.

For the mana void you have this:
What you do:
Add phase - Don't touch it, in ooze phase and your healers need the mana have tank + the person with 100% up time on boss bring the void down if there's a new one coming, if there's not a new one coming but you're in desperate need of mana, kill it.
Non-add phase - Hunter brings it down to 800k, during oozes tank bring it to 200k-100k, if add phase is inc with another void, wait till full drain and kill the void, if no blue just ignore it and keep going on the boss.

For the special phases:
First - Balance druid tranq - paladin's (healers) pop cds and heal like shit.
Second - Bloodlust and most likely healer cooldowns are off, be ready to use them again, use all defensives you got.

Last ooze phase (close to enrage)
Ignore everything but the boss, fully nuke and outheal the shit.

The expertise ring he is wearing is terrible too. The valour point ring is BiS and only 1250 points.

Actually the heroic expertise ring is BiS for hunters.

[Deleted]

Our Shaman had an 99.7% uptime (You can see that in Prîxie's will link). He was healing several times during that run, did you check overall logs for DS Or did you look at them one by one?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8831&e=9279

[Deleted]

Aswell have your paladins blow all CDs at first pack of oozes, they will be up again by the time you'll be needing bloodlust.

I'd say, put your retribution paladin on the boss instead of your enhancement shaman, their damage is just insane if they tunnel.

[Wiiheal]

Trust me, we are in the same boat as you. Cept we 3 healed at first. Hit enrage at 20% ish but with only 6 dps, the fact of the matter is just that it's a super tight enrage, have to find tips and tricks to gain dps but gaining enough dps to make up about 5 min for you guys is going to be near impossible from simple tips and tricks. Practice the fight maybe people get used to it and more in the Rythm each week and the combo of new gear with that will help close the gap each week but otherwise it just doesn't look like u have the dps at this point.
I'd assign each dps some homework to research what they could do better by looking at high peoples logs for that fight and figuring out what they could do better.

Good luck to you. Hoping my healers can handle the 2 healing so we can Down this guy

[Deleted]

I'll be uploading footage tomorrow of our 10th try on WoL (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8831&e=9279).
It includes raid dps and raid healing aswell for you guys to analyze as you wish.

[darkwarrior42]

Just out of curiosity I threw your raid in the raid comp tool.. you're actually not missing as much as I would have expected for having that many pallys.

Just make sure your hunter is using a wolf... there are three debuffs you're missing, and the hunter could provide any one of them, but you don't have any bleed damage and your physical damage is not very significant, so the 5% crit buff is absolutely the best of the three for your hunter to provide.

Other than that, I'd agree with what others have said about your dps in general... the shadow priest in particular does look low (the first random attempt I looked at had him competing with your tank). Make sure all your dpsers have the right gear, and know how to reforge and use it properly first... without that, you probably won't get very far in heroics even if you do get down Yor'sahj. Best of luck!

[Deleted]

What bothers me with your hunter is that he is pretty low almost everytime.. I mean you were 7 minutes in the fight and he done 3.7million dmg to the boss? No wonder you have enrage at 50%.

While I'm personally on 13.6M dmg done after 9 minutes. (worldoflogs.com/reports/b3rv4l2zzbg8z1ki/sum/damageDone/?s=5991&e=6583) To start I'd suggest you to have your hunter practice his spec/class more, because he is NOT benefiting your raid at all, you'd be better off with benching him with either the frost or arms warrior.

For your mage, he's quite low too.. 6M dmg on the boss.. I'm just wondering where does all your damage go? What do you damage beside 1 ooze per wave, boss, adds and the void?

[Video Games]

Should really get that warrior in and have him go arms with blood and thunder. I also sit on the boss, but I guess that depends on your other dps.

[Deleted]

Importent thing is Beacon of Light heals done give stacks, same goes for Death Strike, so Tank should never need to blow up.

What we do is leave 2 DPS on Boss and the rest(including tank) kills blob. Highest DPS nukes boss full time, the other makes sure Mana void gets low(We use mana cds to get mana back after the first one appears leave it and get it to 20% and kill it just as a new one spawns).

Make sure adds die fast since they are annoying and this helps the fight alot. Don't be shy to call for hymn of hope or divine hymn from the SP they help the healers alot.

Green – Yellow – Black – Red - make sure to use Bloodlust here when adds spawn.

Purple – Red – Yellow – Black - you really should kill Yellow here and use smart big singel target heals and heal the tank via death strike, beacon or an emergency Lay on hands, all these don't create stacks.

Hope it helps.